The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - Part 11

[Crimz]

And I've been accused of "wishful thinking". My wishful thinking in this case is that this has nothing to do with Marvel films and Fox is still fumbling blindly and not figuring things out. And Latcham, in a non-competing role, would be in a perfect position to help his new employer and his old friends make a deal.

But common sense leads me to believe that's not the real situation.

But there is absolutely no reason to hide it if that were the case. FOX needs any good publicity they can get when it comes to their Marvel films and announcing that they got a producer who was involved in forming the MCU would only be good for them. The lack of anything to do with cbm's being mentioned tells me that he's likely not going to be involved in that department. He's likely burnt out from doing that genre for around 10 years.

 

[First Avenger]

My hopes after July are close to Zero.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But there is absolutely no reason to hide it if that were the case.

There could be 1000 reasons to hide it. First and foremost, I believe Latcham is still cleaning up at Marvel and will be there into September. It would make his remaining days awkward, to say the least, if it were publicly announced that he was going to be in direct competition with the people he is currently working with.

And as I suggested earlier, there could be a non-compete and that non-compete may go for several years.

I wouldn't be surprised if Latcham was prevented from working on comic-book based films for something like 3-5 years and Fox may be hiring him with the idea that he will work on small projects until the non-compete is done.

Bottom line - all any of us can do is speculate, but considering Latcham's experience, Fox's need, and the value his experience would provide applied toward Marvel films (vs. the negligible value his experience would provide to unrelated films), I think it would be extremely naive to dismiss the idea that Fox is bringing him in with the intention that he will (eventually) help them make better Marvel films just because the very brief announcement didn't specifically mention that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

My hopes after July are close to Zero.

I think July gave us more reason to hope than we've had in years.

Somethings going to happen. It may be good, it may be bad, but there's absolutely no sense in Fox continuing to crank out lousy films that none of us want, so I think the chances of that nightmare are relatively slim.

 

[First Avenger]

I just don't see Noah announcing a Dr Doom movie at comic-con as a red herring. I think they'll make the movie and the characters are not going to be integrated in the MCU.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I just don't see Noah announcing a Dr Doom movie at comic-con as a red herring. I think they'll make the movie and the characters are not going to be integrated in the MCU.

Well if Marvel believes that, maybe they'll make an offer and then everybody will be happy.

... but I think Marvel is much calmer than that. Even if they think it's possible Fox is serious, they'll wait until Fox starts spending money before getting nervous (and I'll do the same).

But let's step back and think about it. You're Fox and you think a Doom film is a good way to go. When would you be thinking about releasing that film and when would you start talking about it publicly?

If it were me, I'd give it some time for the taste of that awful 2015 "Dr. Doom" to get out of people's mouths, so I'd be looking at releasing it much closer to my deadline around 2023-2024. And if I were seriously planning on that, I would give it a break and not even mention anything publicly until we were closer to release (and some of the hate from 2015 had more of a chance to die down).

BUT if I wanted to push a disinterested Marvel to come to the table to talk about some sort of deal, now would be a perfect time for that.

So just based on the timing and not other factors (such as the fact that no one wants a Doom film or that just before this we had a rumor of a completely different FF treatment), I think it's more likely than not this is BS (and/or something Fox is toying with and gauging interest in and keeping in their back pocket as one of many options).

 

[Spiderine]

I dont think Marvel take the bait. They move on as if the FF and its library of characters dont exist. And if Fox want to make a ****** Doom film so be it. Marvel got this thing mapped out beyond phase 3. Plan A without them and plan B with them.

I dont know if a Doom solo extend the rights but I am inclined to think they will let Fox hang itself with this property.

My only hope is that the Doom film dont extend the rights but part of me believe it can if its made a certain way. I will remain hopeful that Fox bluffs its way to 2022 and they revert. It looks like Marvel has no intention of working with Fox on FF films like Sony. Thats one studio too many. Sony is already biting them in the ass. Its not worth the time and trouble.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I dont think Marvel take the bait.

Yep. I don't think Marvel is taking this seriously at all.

How can you make a Doom film as a first film with no context? Who's going to care about the guy except people like us? (and people like us don't want it)

Without the FF or other protagonists, and history and context, he's just an over-dressed drama queen.

 

[random_havoc]

I think Marvel made a mistake in cooperating with Sony on Spidey films. They should've made a full force push to get the rights fully back.
Sony is already planning a number of movies that promise to absolutely suck and ruin multiple Spidey supporting characters/villains. When those inevitably fail Sony will probably take back full creative control when the contract is done and Spidey's movie reputation has been returned to high status by Marvel.

I'm glad Marvel isn't going for a similar deal regarding the FF

 

[Zarex]

I think Marvel made a mistake in cooperating with Sony on Spidey films. They should've made a full force push to get the rights fully back.
Sony is already planning a number of movies that promise to absolutely suck and ruin multiple Spidey supporting characters/villains. When those inevitably fail Sony will probably take back full creative control when the contract is done and Spidey's movie reputation has been returned to high status by Marvel.

I'm glad Marvel isn't going for a similar deal regarding the FF

Sony Pictures a mess - they recorded an $86M loss this quarter, the Emoji Movie scored "Below FFINO" and the Dark Tower is reportedly a disaster. But I don't think a series of poorly thought villain spin off films would harm the MCU. And while it is possible that Sony will reboot the character a fourth time in the next few years, I can't imagine how they would sell a whole new cast of characters stripped of their MCU ties to the viewing public. It has about as much appeal as a Dr. Doom prequel or a Fantastikids film.

 

[TheVileOne]

I think Marvel made a mistake in cooperating with Sony on Spidey films. They should've made a full force push to get the rights fully back.
Sony is already planning a number of movies that promise to absolutely suck and ruin multiple Spidey supporting characters/villains. When those inevitably fail Sony will probably take back full creative control when the contract is done and Spidey's movie reputation has been returned to high status by Marvel.

I'm glad Marvel isn't going for a similar deal regarding the FF

Spider-Man film rights still had a lot of value, and it probably would've been hard for Sony to completely give them up.

 

[Orba]

Sony Pictures a mess - they recorded an $86M loss this quarter, the Emoji Movie scored "Below FFINO" and the Dark Tower is reportedly a disaster. But I don't think a series of poorly thought villain spin off films would harm the MCU. And while it is possible that Sony will reboot the character a fourth time in the next few years, I can't imagine how they would sell a whole new cast of characters stripped of their MCU ties to the viewing public. It has about as much appeal as a Dr. Doom prequel or a Fantastikids film.

And Emoji was supposed to be the film Sony were waiting for before they made a decision on the future of their film division.

 

[TheVileOne]

I highly doubt that. Emoji Movie also only cost $50 million. They hardly broke the bank on it.

 

[ADollarADay]

How can you make an Iron-Man film as a first film with no context? Who's going to care about the guy except people like us? (and people like us don't want it)

Without the Avengers or other protagonists, and history and context, he's just an over-dressed drama queen.

Made some small modifications and I think a lot of people would agree with this post ~ 2007.

I think Marvel made a mistake in cooperating with Sony on Spidey films. They should've made a full force push to get the rights fully back.
Sony is already planning a number of movies that promise to absolutely suck and ruin multiple Spidey supporting characters/villains. When those inevitably fail Sony will probably take back full creative control when the contract is done and Spidey's movie reputation has been returned to high status by Marvel.

I'm glad Marvel isn't going for a similar deal regarding the FF

I have been saying this for 85 years. I also said the spin off was gonna happen and that eventually Sony will try with Spidey again.

It's always nice to see when people realize how awful that deal is.

Sony Pictures a mess - they recorded an $86M loss this quarter, the Emoji Movie scored "Below FFINO" and the Dark Tower is reportedly a disaster. But I don't think a series of poorly thought villain spin off films would harm the MCU. And while it is possible that Sony will reboot the character a fourth time in the next few years, I can't imagine how they would sell a whole new cast of characters stripped of their MCU ties to the viewing public. It has about as much appeal as a Dr. Doom prequel or a Fantastikids film.

Most executives lack the foresight and know-how you just described. Most execs think, "hey, Spiderman is a 800MM, at least, franchise per movie. Why are we paying Marvel to produce it? Even Amazing Spiderman 2, which was hot poopoo scored well at the BO. Let's keep the budget under 200MM and do it ourselves."

I highly doubt that. Emoji Movie also only cost $50 million. They hardly broke the bank on it.

There was a rumor SPE was hoping Emoji would break out like Pets, Inside Out, Wreck it Ralph, etc and would have had franchise potential, thus bringing the value of a potential sale of the unit up. Again, it is just a rumor from Jan/Feb of this year.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's just a rumor though. If anything, Emoji Movie comes off like a pretty low risk attempt to make a franchise.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Made some small modifications and I think a lot of people would agree with this post ~ 2007.

Iron Man is a Superhero. Huge difference.

Also Iron Man didn't have fans actively opposed to the idea, and Iron Man hadn't been portrayed in three previous lousy films.

There's no basis for comparison whatsoever.

For a "Books of Doom" type story, you need context. Comic book readers only enjoyed that story because they already knew who Doom was.

 

[First Avenger]

https://www.newsarama.com/35805-why...at-it-will-take-to-make-them-start-again.html

Interesting read here. Pretty much everyone aknowledges that the absence of the F4 is due not to Marvel's wish to get the rights back from Fox,rather how hard Fox screwed the movies up.

 

[Dark Raven]

Made some small modifications and I think a lot of people would agree with this post ~ 2007.

Iron Man was the star of his own solo comic book series and he was the protagonist not the antagonist. He didn't need other protagonists. In his own book, he wasn't constantly surrounded by Avengers but often operated in his own world with his own villains and supporting characters. Completely different from Doom. It's not like he needed the context of the Avengers in order to make sense or to appeal to readers.

And fans were wanting to see an Iron Man movie.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

https://www.newsarama.com/35805-why...at-it-will-take-to-make-them-start-again.html

Interesting read here. Pretty much everyone aknowledges that the absence of the F4 is due not to Marvel's wish to get the rights back from Fox,rather how hard Fox screwed the movies up.

There's a lot of good content there.

While I think there are multiple factors, it's clear that since the early 2000's FF's popularity has been falling as bad films have come out and other properties have risen as good films have come out.

When comic books ruled, FF was among the top, when comic books took a back-seat to films, and FF got nothing but lousy films, they dropped out of relevancy.

Marvel is still making X-Men and Deadpool comic books. If it were purely a matter if wanting to hurt Fox, they could pull those as well.

But I'm heartened that despite Fox's near criminal treatment of them, people haven't forgotten them, and hopefully they will come back bigger and better at some point.

Just for perspective, when I was a kid in the early '70s, it seemed like Batman and Superman had become irrelevant and dated. They seemed sort of goofy and cheesy compared to the books Marvel was publishing at that time.

 

[I Am The Knight]

https://www.newsarama.com/35805-why...at-it-will-take-to-make-them-start-again.html

Interesting read here. Pretty much everyone aknowledges that the absence of the F4 is due not to Marvel's wish to get the rights back from Fox,rather how hard Fox screwed the movies up.

"Disney probably needs to buy Fox.”

 

[terry78]

Are they wrong? Fox has a **** ton of houses that would work under Disney. Blue Sky, Dreamworks, etc.

 

[First Avenger]

Hickman's a smart guy. His F4 run was glorious. But Disney buying Fox is pretty much utopia.

 

[Spiderine]

I still believe if it were not for the GOTG big screen and merchandising success there would have been a bigger priority for Disney to pursue the FF property. GOTG even got a cartoon now. Its not worth the big price tag FOX is probably asking for it to Disney. The most important value are those supporting characters/villains. Its the only true bargaining chip FOX got. Which is why the DOOM movie is floating around.

 

[regnak]

After what happened to Fox's stock price last time I wonder if major stockholders would be in a position to sue to stop a new movie?

 

[TheVileOne]

After what happened to Fox's stock price last time I wonder if major stockholders would be in a position to sue to stop a new movie?

They would never do that.