The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - Part 13

[Dark Raven]

Ashcan or direct to DVD. Kinberg sucks.

This is what I'm thinking they could do. Just make XM: DP like the Corman FF movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This is what I'm thinking they could do. Just make XM: DP like the Corman FF movie.

Different circumstances. The Corman FF movie was never intended to be released, X-Men: Dark Phoenix is a major blockbuster.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Man if this happens... Fans have wanted this for so long... The pressure that will be on Marvel to actually deliver a good Fantastic Four film will be insane. We know they can do it based on what they've done with all of their other properties (that were never sullied by Scott Buck that is) but the deck is going to be stacked against them here.

I almost hope they wait a little bit and slowly seed the franchise in other films first. Audiences are so sour on FF thanks to Fox's mismanagement that it's going to be an uphill climb from the get go - worse than Hulk, worse than Daredevil, worse than Spider-Man.

I'm rooting for this outcome of course - it's the best chance the FF has - but FF fans still need to see a great movie.

I also hope Marvel doesn't just pillage the Fantastic Four for things like Dr. Doom, Kang, Annihilus, Negative Zone, Subterranea, Microverse etc. I love the Fantastic Four - Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny - not just their villains and worlds.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

X-Men: Dark Phoenix is a major blockbuster.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Budget of around $150 million makes it a major blockbuster. Quality is irrelevant.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Budget of around $150 million makes it a major blockbuster. Quality is irrelevant.

True. True.

 

[Dark Raven]

Different circumstances. The Corman FF movie was never intended to be released, X-Men: Dark Phoenix is a major blockbuster.

You mean that Fox hope it will be a major blockbuster.

It hasn't even been released yet. There are no box office figures. If it flopped badly, it could hardly be called a blockbuster, let alone major.

Fant4stic was maybe intended as a "major blockbuster" too, but it was a major flop.

And if Marvel saw that Dark Phoenix could flop in the same way as Fant4stic, then why release it?

Imagine if the circumstances were different and it was Fant4stic that was due to be released instead of Dark Phoenix. Would Marvel Studios still release that movie just because it was already made, even though it might hurt their own FF version later on, and just because of contracts?

It would be better to just pay everyone off and then ashcan the movie.

 

[GoblinScrier]

News like this is how you start your day....imagine a moment like this in the upcoming MCU with Doom as the central threat

 

[Marvel united]

Budget of around $150 million makes it a major blockbuster. Quality is irrelevant.

It needs to be cancelled. We may never see the Dark Phoenix story in the MCU because of this movie.

 

[Spider-Fan]

You mean that Fox hope it will be a major blockbuster.

It hasn't even been released yet. There are no box office figures. If it flopped badly, it could hardly be called a blockbuster, let alone major.

Fant4stic was maybe intended as a "major blockbuster" too, but it was a major flop.

And if Marvel saw that Dark Phoenix could flop in the same way as Fant4stic, then why release it?

Imagine if the circumstances were different and it was Fant4stic that was due to be released instead of Dark Phoenix. Would Marvel Studios still release that movie just because it was already made, even though it might hurt their own FF version later on, and just because of contracts?

It would be better to just pay everyone off and then ashcan the movie.

I think Fan4stic would have been shelved, but the reason that would have been was because it was SO bad. X-Men: Apocalypse was not great, but it was not Fan4stic. If X: DP is THAT bad, oh yeah, no way they release it. But, I think it has to be a case like that to just be shutdown.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I also hope Marvel doesn't just pillage the Fantastic Four for things like Dr. Doom, Kang, Annihilus, Negative Zone, Subterranea, Microverse etc. I love the Fantastic Four - Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny - not just their villains and worlds.

I think they'll do it right. I have a feeling that the reason Feige has been indicating that they may not really be doing 'Phases' anymore is they've used their big characters in their big Avengers Infinity War story-line and it would be tough to top that, so they're pulling back and focusing on smaller stories with different mixes of characters.

But the FF would give them an opportunity they don't currently have. Fantastic Four gives them the ability to use big, well-known, iconic characters that they haven't used yet, and Doom and Galactus give them the ability to top Thanos.

So if they get the rights, I strongly suspect they'd use the FF, Doom, Galactus, X-Men and current characters to build toward another mega event maybe 15 years from now.

 

[Abudefduf]

I also hope Marvel doesn't just pillage the Fantastic Four for things like Dr. Doom, Kang, Annihilus, Negative Zone, Subterranea, Microverse etc. I love the Fantastic Four - Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny - not just their villains and worlds.

Marvel Studios have shown time and time again that they value their heroes far more than their enemies... if anything, I'd be more worried if I was a fan of the villains you mentioned.

 

[Iceman]

Man if this happens... Fans have wanted this for so long... The pressure that will be on Marvel to actually deliver a good Fantastic Four film will be insane. We know they can do it based on what they've done with all of their other properties (that were never sullied by Scott Buck that is) but the deck is going to be stacked against them here.

I almost hope they wait a little bit and slowly seed the franchise in other films first. Audiences are so sour on FF thanks to Fox's mismanagement that it's going to be an uphill climb from the get go - worse than Hulk, worse than Daredevil, worse than Spider-Man.

I'm rooting for this outcome of course - it's the best chance the FF has - but FF fans still need to see a great movie.

I also hope Marvel doesn't just pillage the Fantastic Four for things like Dr. Doom, Kang, Annihilus, Negative Zone, Subterranea, Microverse etc. I love the Fantastic Four - Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny - not just their villains and worlds.

I would love for them to intro the individual F4 guys into other MCU films first. They all have plenty to offer by themselves. And it would also feel like a mini-teamup event when they get together in an F4 film. I think the next F4 film needs some pre-hype like this.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think Fan4stic would have been shelved, but the reason that would have been was because it was SO bad. X-Men: Apocalypse was not great, but it was not Fan4stic. If X: DP is THAT bad, oh yeah, no way they release it. But, I think it has to be a case like that to just be shutdown.

How bad would you say is too bad?

Batman v Superman only got a 27% RT score while Justice League got 41%. BvS still did better financially than JL though.

If Marvel Studios, as an outside observer, looked at XM: DP and saw that it was very likely to be savaged by critics and audience alike, then how bad would it have to be to still allow it to be released, and how bad would it have to be to be shelved?

If it is BvS or JL quality, do they still release it?

I actually enjoyed JL - definitely more than BvS. It was certainly better than Fant4stic. But even though some fans might like it, the general audience didn't seem to appreciate it.

Does Marvel just release XM: DP for a few fans, or do they concentrate on the majority of their audience?

It could also be very expensive to fix Dark Phoenix if Marvel do consider it complete rubbish.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I would love for them to intro the individual F4 guys into other MCU films first. They all have plenty to offer by themselves. And it would also feel like a mini-teamup event when they get together in an F4 film. I think the next F4 film needs some pre-hype like this.

I think putting Johnny Storm in the next Spider-Man film as the new kid would be awesome, but I still say depending upon when this deal goes through, putting Reed and Ben (if not, the entire FF) into some role in Infinity War would be the way to get them back in people's good graces. I would put Reed and Ben in IW (have them come up with some super sciency way to stop Thanos or help), put Johnny and maybe Sue in Spider-Man: HC2, and then FF solo! Money

 

[Iceman]

I think Fan4stic would have been shelved, but the reason that would have been was because it was SO bad. X-Men: Apocalypse was not great, but it was not Fan4stic. If X: DP is THAT bad, oh yeah, no way they release it. But, I think it has to be a case like that to just be shutdown.

It would probably do more damage to the box office of future films than the profit it made if it was that bad.

 

[fobi]

I'm sure I'm in the minority here and it's not likely to happen but I'd like them to keep most of the current X-Men cast, especially the ones introduced in Apocalypse. I know the movie didn't meet expectations but I thought the case was decent. The only one I'd like to see gone is Mystique.

With the multiverse direction they seem to be going in for the next phase as well as whatever they do with the reality stone, it would be easy to just merge the two that way in a few years. Guess we'll see.

 

[Spider-Fan]

How bad would you say is too bad?

Batman v Superman only got a 27% RT score while Justice League got 41%. BvS still did better financially than JL though.

If Marvel Studios, as an outside observer, looked at XM: DP and saw that it was very likely to be savaged by critics and audience alike, then how bad would it have to be to still allow it to be released, and how bad would it have to be to be shelved?

If it is BvS or JL quality, do they still release it?

I actually enjoyed JL - definitely more than BvS. It was certainly better than Fant4stic. But even though some fans might like it, the general audience didn't seem to appreciate it.

Does Marvel just release XM: DP for a few fans, or do they concentrate on the majority of their audience?

It could also be very expensive to fix Dark Phoenix if Marvel do consider it complete rubbish.

I think if this is as bad as say, X-Men Origins Wolverine, scrap. X-Men: Apocalypse, no harm. At the end of the day, 150 mil was spent on it, they absorbed FOX's debt once this sale goes through, and the movie will make around 400-600 mil WW, which would help cancel out some of what they paid for FOX. The movie would have to be BAD to be scrapped for this reason.

 

[ImSGirl95]

So, what did I missed? Deal possibly next week? Is the source a one we could trust on 100%?

 

[Dark Raven]

This thread needs to stay alive even after the Disney-Fox deal just because it is a historic thread.

And also we still need to talk about Disney fully acquiring Spider-Man, as well as distribution rights for Hulk and Namor.

 

[Iceman]

I think putting Johnny Storm in the next Spider-Man film as the new kid would be awesome, but I still say depending upon when this deal goes through, putting Reed and Ben (if not, the entire FF) into some role in Infinity War would be the way to get them back in people's good graces. I would put Reed and Ben in IW (have them come up with some super sciency way to stop Thanos or help), put Johnny and maybe Sue in Spider-Man: HC2, and then FF solo! Money

Reed will have to be consulted during an event film at some point in the not too far future. Can not wait for that.

 

[Spider-Fan]

So, what did I missed? Deal possibly next week? Is the source a one we could trust on 100%?

CNBC. Very reputable.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Reed will have to be consulted during an event film at some point in the not too far future. Can not wait for that.

Why wait for that, when we got Avengers 4 next year and we need a big brain to stop Thanos

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I think they'll do it right. I have a feeling that the reason Feige has been indicating that they may not really be doing 'Phases' anymore is they've used their big characters in their big Avengers Infinity War story-line and it would be tough to top that, so they're pulling back and focusing on smaller stories with different mixes of characters.

But the FF would give them an opportunity they don't currently have. Fantastic Four gives them the ability to use big, well-known, iconic characters that they haven't used yet, and Doom and Galactus give them the ability to top Thanos.

So if they get the rights, I strongly suspect they'd use the FF, Doom, Galactus, X-Men and current characters to build toward another mega event maybe 15 years from now.

Yeah I hope you're right. I do like the sound of that.

But something to consider - always upping stakes is a dangerous game that can numb audiences - and it is. It's always the end of the world/galaxy/universe whatever. Another sky portal - yawn. Smaller, personal stories and character growth along the way, things that make you actually care about what's happening and who's affected - are absolutely needed to keep people vested in these stories.

Another thought I've had is that with stakes so high - and the Marvel universe so expanded - whether Galactus can be considered a threat on the level of Thanos and the Infinity Gauntlet. I mean Ego almost did essentially the same thing in GOTG 2.

I could see a franchise built around Silver Surfer and Galactus that introduces his character and his hunger - make Galactus a tragic character along with Norrin Radd. Introduce the FF separately and make you care about them as a family. Build the story surrounding Doom. Make him the MCU's best villain like he should be. World building over time - long form story telling - but always make it about the characters.

Meanwhile like you mention - over a very long period - all of this craziness builds towards something epic - like Annihilation Wave, a Kree Skrull War, Beyonder/Secret Wars that kind of thing - where all of these characters are players on a bigger stage. If written and architected well, the potential there seems fairly limitless IMO.

 

[Spiderine]

Man if this happens... Fans have wanted this for so long... The pressure that will be on Marvel to actually deliver a good Fantastic Four film will be insane. We know they can do it based on what they've done with all of their other properties (that were never sullied by Scott Buck that is) but the deck is going to be stacked against them here.

I almost hope they wait a little bit and slowly seed the franchise in other films first. Audiences are so sour on FF thanks to Fox's mismanagement that it's going to be an uphill climb from the get go - worse than Hulk, worse than Daredevil, worse than Spider-Man.

I'm rooting for this outcome of course - it's the best chance the FF has - but FF fans still need to see a great movie.

I also hope Marvel doesn't just pillage the Fantastic Four for things like Dr. Doom, Kang, Annihilus, Negative Zone, Subterranea, Microverse etc. I love the Fantastic Four - Reed, Sue, Ben and Johnny - not just their villains and worlds.

This is why you use an event film or another popular character feature to introduce the new marvel version to the world. The same formula they used with Spidey. They probably already had plans in place years ago.