The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - Part 14

[Big Bang]

They'll have a Plan 9 as well, but it will come from outer space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzrzxnPKLtA

 

[TheVileOne]

As much as I want Marvel to get all these character rights back, I think monopoly concerns for Disney as an entity are valid.

For an example, in the mid-1980s, the home video game market crashed, and the one company that brought it back from the brink of death was Nintendo. Nintendo was doing so well and dominating the video game market. In fact, Nintendo dominated the market so much, they pretty much did whatever they wanted.

However, what Nintendo did was also alienate a lot of third-party publishers. What did Nintendo do? They would charge other publishers and developers double than normal for use of the Nintendo cartridge and huge licensing fees. Namco, creators of such big franchises like Pac-Man, for example in the late 80s spoke out about these business practices and called them unfair. Nintendo's actions sometimes drove developers and publishers away to other companies like SEGA. And the reason this is important is because SEGA upped its game in the early 1990s with the Genesis/Mega Drive and managed to wrest away a significant amount of the home video game market away from Nintendo because of some of their questionable business decisions and actions.

Now that's video gaming. But I think the point to be made here is that it's potentially dangerous for only one company to hold all the cards or all the keys and dominate the industry. It could prevent smaller businesses from doing work or wanting to get involved with said company. Once again, Nintendo ended up alienating a lot of potential business partners through its industry dominance in the 1980s and trying to do whatever they wanted. It's not really in the nature of corporations to heed the mistakes of the past.

I'm not saying that would directly happen with Disney. But there has to be some checks and balances here.

 

[Web-Head]

^ i wish there was a way Disney would get the Marvel characters and maybe a couple more franchises but sell off say Apes, Aliens, etc. Split it all up

 

[Endeavor]

lmao!!!

 

[honestbharani]

As much as I want Marvel to get all these character rights back, I think monopoly concerns for Disney as an entity are valid.

For an example, in the mid-1980s, the home video game market crashed, and the one company that brought it back from the brink of death was Nintendo. Nintendo was doing so well and dominating the video game market. In fact, Nintendo dominated the market so much, they pretty much did whatever they wanted.

However, what Nintendo did was also alienate a lot of third-party publishers. What did Nintendo do? They would charge other publishers and developers double than normal for use of the Nintendo cartridge and huge licensing fees. Namco, creators of such big franchises like Pac-Man, for example in the late 80s spoke out about these business practices and called them unfair. Nintendo's actions sometimes drove developers and publishers away to other companies like SEGA. And the reason this is important is because SEGA upped its game in the early 1990s with the Genesis/Mega Drive and managed to wrest away a significant amount of the home video game market away from Nintendo because of some of their questionable business decisions and actions.

Now that's video gaming. But I think the point to be made here is that it's potentially dangerous for only one company to hold all the cards or all the keys and dominate the industry. It could prevent smaller businesses from doing work or wanting to get involved with said company. Once again, Nintendo ended up alienating a lot of potential business partners through its industry dominance in the 1980s and trying to do whatever they wanted. It's not really in the nature of corporations to heed the mistakes of the past.

I'm not saying that would directly happen with Disney. But there has to be some checks and balances here.

It is much less of a monopoly threat than Comcast/Universal or the proposed AT&T/Time-Warner, for starters...

 

[ADollarADay]

In the market for what I call luxury products like video games and films you don't have to buy anything so there is limited tolerance for hikes in prices or drops in quality anyway even if there is only one provider. If all films that came out were 4/10 or cost $200 to watch I (and I imagine a fair few others) would stop watching films altogether. It's of course different when there is a monopoly on a vital drug or food product.

I see the movie industry ending up like the music or game industry. 2-3 big players and indie scene.

I just find that it would be better for overall competition. Just my 2 cents.

Fair enough, I just don't think there's any legal basis to try to block it.

^ i wish there was a way Disney would get the Marvel characters and maybe a couple more franchises but sell off say Apes, Aliens, etc. Split it all up

That might be what they might need to do to get it all back.

Basically after this goes through they will still have

At Comcast
- Hulk and Namor movie distribution rights
- Theme park rights in Orlando
- Hulu 30%

At Paramount
- Indiana Jones distribution rights of 1-4 and future participation of Indiana Jones movies

At Sony
- Spiderman movie rights

Just paying money for these is not going to be feasible. They would have to give up some franchises to get these back. Die Hard, Kingsman, Aliens, Predator, Apes, etc are all candidates to be part of a trade.

As much as I want Marvel to get all these character rights back, I think monopoly concerns for Disney as an entity are valid.

For an example, in the mid-1980s, the home video game market crashed, and the one company that brought it back from the brink of death was Nintendo. Nintendo was doing so well and dominating the video game market. In fact, Nintendo dominated the market so much, they pretty much did whatever they wanted.

However, what Nintendo did was also alienate a lot of third-party publishers. What did Nintendo do? They would charge other publishers and developers double than normal for use of the Nintendo cartridge and huge licensing fees. Namco, creators of such big franchises like Pac-Man, for example in the late 80s spoke out about these business practices and called them unfair. Nintendo's actions sometimes drove developers and publishers away to other companies like SEGA. And the reason this is important is because SEGA upped its game in the early 1990s with the Genesis/Mega Drive and managed to wrest away a significant amount of the home video game market away from Nintendo because of some of their questionable business decisions and actions.

Now that's video gaming. But I think the point to be made here is that it's potentially dangerous for only one company to hold all the cards or all the keys and dominate the industry. It could prevent smaller businesses from doing work or wanting to get involved with said company. Once again, Nintendo ended up alienating a lot of potential business partners through its industry dominance in the 1980s and trying to do whatever they wanted. It's not really in the nature of corporations to heed the mistakes of the past.

I'm not saying that would directly happen with Disney. But there has to be some checks and balances here.

And what happened when Nintendo did that? Sony came into the scene, undercut them with the playstation (which was supposed to be a Nintendo product) and Nintendo struggled for a couple of generations.

I could also argue that a monopoly in videogames could bring benefits to the customer as well (i.e. I wouldn't have to acquire a Switch, Xbox, Playstation, and a Steam account to play Zelda, Halo, Uncharted, and DOTA)

 

[Lilbaz]

If they produce good quality films i don't really care.

 

[Big Bang]

I see the movie industry ending up like the music or game industry. 2-3 big players and indie scene.

Kind of where it is heading. The exception is that new players of different scale. I wouldn't classify them as indie per se but as more moderately sized.

Disney, NBCUniversal, Time Warner being the big 3 and Netflix, Amazon, and others being below that tier. Viacom is in a lot trouble right now, and I could see them getting broken up.

Basically after this goes through they will still have

At Comcast
- Hulk and Namor movie distribution rights
- Theme park rights in Orlando
- Hulu 30%

At Paramount
- Indiana Jones distribution rights of 1-4 and future participation of Indiana Jones movies

At Sony
- Spiderman movie rights

Just paying money for these is not going to be feasible. They would have to give up some franchises to get these back. Die Hard, Kingsman, Aliens, Predator, Apes, etc are all candidates to be part of a trade.

I am sort of surprised Paramount hasn't bent the knee and just sold Indiana Jones to Disney yet. They played ball with the distribution rights to the Marvel films when Disney acquired them, and they are need of more funds. Plus the Marvel brand was just starting to heat up while Indy was pretty dormant.


Sony is going to be a real nuisance for time to come. It is going to require a lot more than just properties in exchange because they know without a shadow of a doubt that Spider-Man is a money maker. They will go down kicking in screaming before they relinquish those rights. This is a company whose senior management want a return to their glory days, and refuse to acknowledge that those days are long gone and likely will never return. The world has already moved on from Sony w/ PlayStation being their only meaningful brand left. When an American company completely dominates them in nongaming electronics in their home country, then you know that things have really changed.


Comcast is going to be an interesting challenge. In many ways, Disney needs them to promote competition, just like they need Warner + DC. They could very well in theory do a property swap for certain rights. While they are using Marvel at IoA today, they need to start thinking about a direction in the future that better suits their ability to adapt to change. Being stuck in a position of having to get permission from a rival studio to make changes to a property at your own park is not very conducive. This get even more complicated if Disney keeps the Simpsons.

And what happened when Nintendo did that? Sony came into the scene, undercut them with the playstation (which was supposed to be a Nintendo product) and Nintendo struggled for a couple of generations.

I could also argue that a monopoly in videogames could bring benefits to the customer as well (i.e. I wouldn't have to acquire a Switch, Xbox, Playstation, and a Steam account to play Zelda, Halo, Uncharted, and DOTA)

The gaming market is a very fickle one. It moves too quickly for its own good sometimes. Right now, I like Microsoft's strategy of allowing you to own a copy of a game on both Xbox and PC. Their changing policies on network openness is also encouraging.

 

[TheVileOne]

I see the movie industry ending up like the music or game industry. 2-3 big players and indie scene.



Fair enough, I just don't think there's any legal basis to try to block it.




That might be what they might need to do to get it all back.

Basically after this goes through they will still have

At Comcast
- Hulk and Namor movie distribution rights
- Theme park rights in Orlando
- Hulu 30%

At Paramount
- Indiana Jones distribution rights of 1-4 and future participation of Indiana Jones movies

At Sony
- Spiderman movie rights

Just paying money for these is not going to be feasible. They would have to give up some franchises to get these back. Die Hard, Kingsman, Aliens, Predator, Apes, etc are all candidates to be part of a trade.



And what happened when Nintendo did that? Sony came into the scene, undercut them with the playstation (which was supposed to be a Nintendo product) and Nintendo struggled for a couple of generations.

I could also argue that a monopoly in videogames could bring benefits to the customer as well (i.e. I wouldn't have to acquire a Switch, Xbox, Playstation, and a Steam account to play Zelda, Halo, Uncharted, and DOTA)

I mean there are definitely benefits. There are pros and cons from top to bottom. The immediate pros are Marvel Studios gets to control the film rights for all these franchises. There is no better studio now to oversee the future of its properties than Marvel right now.

 

[Dark Raven]

I think Marvel really need to get back the distribution rights to Hulk and Namor from Universal. I don't know if this is stopping them using other Hulk characters such as She-Hulk or some of Hulk's villains.

The Incredible Hulk almost doesn't feel like an MCU movie but as if it's from an era before then. I'd like to see a more comic accurate version of Abomination as well as a fully-developed Leader.

And I want the FF to battle Namor. I'd also like a proper Defenders movie with Hulk, Dr Strange, Namor, Surfer, Valkyrie as well as Nighthawk and Hellcat.

Did the Netflix Defenders ever even call themselves that name?

One other thing we'd also be able to get now is The Champions:

It would allow for Ghost Rider to be in a movie again but not having to carry the film himself. He could be like Hulk and feature in group films. It would also allow for X-Men like Angel and Iceman to get more screen time outside of the X-Men films, and to allow for Black Widow and Hercules to feature.

This would be one way to mix the X-Men with other characters to embrace the crossover nature of the MCU. And it's time that Ghost Rider is back on the big screen too.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't see why Marvel won't do a Hercules and Cho tv show. That would be gold! It can also be low budget unlike AoS and the Inhumans.

 

[Dark Raven]

Marvel ought to go the team-up route for future movies. They can have film versions of Marvel Team Up with Spider-Man and someone else, or Marvel Two-in-One with Thing and someone else. Those were some of my favourite stories.

 

[Endeavor]

So, I've been daydreaming about the possible nuggets of casting the MCU might come up with in the near future.

One of them I would love to see is Meryl Streep as Agatha Harkness. I would like her to have some sort of link to Doom. Maybe something related to his mother, and her death.

If not that, then she would be great as Destiny, opposite Charlize Theron as Mystique.

 

[InCali]

They'll have a Plan 9 as well, but it will come from outer space.

Wood not be too sure about that.

Nothing goes over your head.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

As much as I want Marvel to get all these character rights back, I think monopoly concerns for Disney as an entity are valid.

For an example, in the mid-1980s, the home video game market crashed, and the one company that brought it back from the brink of death was Nintendo. Nintendo was doing so well and dominating the video game market. In fact, Nintendo dominated the market so much, they pretty much did whatever they wanted.

However, what Nintendo did was also alienate a lot of third-party publishers. What did Nintendo do? They would charge other publishers and developers double than normal for use of the Nintendo cartridge and huge licensing fees. Namco, creators of such big franchises like Pac-Man, for example in the late 80s spoke out about these business practices and called them unfair. Nintendo's actions sometimes drove developers and publishers away to other companies like SEGA. And the reason this is important is because SEGA upped its game in the early 1990s with the Genesis/Mega Drive and managed to wrest away a significant amount of the home video game market away from Nintendo because of some of their questionable business decisions and actions.

Now that's video gaming. But I think the point to be made here is that it's potentially dangerous for only one company to hold all the cards or all the keys and dominate the industry. It could prevent smaller businesses from doing work or wanting to get involved with said company. Once again, Nintendo ended up alienating a lot of potential business partners through its industry dominance in the 1980s and trying to do whatever they wanted. It's not really in the nature of corporations to heed the mistakes of the past.

I'm not saying that would directly happen with Disney. But there has to be some checks and balances here.

You described exactly how the free market acts as a check and balance. If Disney doesn't provide something the public wants, some other studio will. And that other studio will reap the benefits. That's how these things always work.

And there is one thing Hollywood lives by....making movies the public wants to see. That's pretty much all they do.

 

[Iceman]

Marvel ought to go the team-up route for future movies. They can have film versions of Marvel Team Up with Spider-Man and someone else, or Marvel Two-in-One with Thing and someone else. Those were some of my favourite stories.

I want to see Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

I want to see Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends.

Combines three franchises into one.

 

[Nardz937]

The Human Torch is definitely co-starring in a future Spidey movie.

 

[Iceman]

Combines three franchises into one.

Could be a great way to introduce the other films too if HC3 wanted to go that way.

 

[DawnWarrior]

I feel like the magic word in this situation is "overkill." All of us here just wanted the FF back with the MCU so we could get good FF movies. A lot of us also wanted the X-Men back over there too. And we'll probably get both of those with this deal. But we're talking about an entire giant movie studio being bought and absorbed by another giant movie studio. The issue of "who owns the movie rights for which super-heroes" seems like small potatoes.

 

[Silver Surfer]

The Human Torch is definitely co-starring in a future Spidey movie.

I really hope they adapt the first issue of the Spider-Man/Human torch miniseries by Dan Slott. Must read for any Spidey fan.

 

[Iceman]

I’ll check that out

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's next week.

 

[Boom]

Deal by Friday or I boycott going outside.

 

[ADollarADay]

I am sort of surprised Paramount hasn't bent the knee and just sold Indiana Jones to Disney yet. They played ball with the distribution rights to the Marvel films when Disney acquired them, and they are need of more funds. Plus the Marvel brand was just starting to heat up while Indy was pretty dormant.

Yes, I'm surprised too. Disney could easily acquire those rights now, I would think. Maybe they have already done so and it just hasn't been announced.

Sony is going to be a real nuisance for time to come. It is going to require a lot more than just properties in exchange because they know without a shadow of a doubt that Spider-Man is a money maker. They will go down kicking in screaming before they relinquish those rights. This is a company whose senior management want a return to their glory days, and refuse to acknowledge that those days are long gone and likely will never return. The world has already moved on from Sony w/ PlayStation being their only meaningful brand left. When an American company completely dominates them in nongaming electronics in their home country, then you know that things have really changed.

Without a doubt they'll be tough to deal with. Their spidey rights are limited though, so that helps. If they still had any rights to merch, I think they would be much harder. Disney could have taken the new spider man videogame exclusively to XBox if they wanted to. While spidey is bigger than any franchise Disney would be willing to part, when you add in merch, licensing, gaming, etc opportunities then things get a little murkier.

Comcast is going to be an interesting challenge. In many ways, Disney needs them to promote competition, just like they need Warner + DC. They could very well in theory do a property swap for certain rights. While they are using Marvel at IoA today, they need to start thinking about a direction in the future that better suits their ability to adapt to change. Being stuck in a position of having to get permission from a rival studio to make changes to a property at your own park is not very conducive. This get even more complicated if Disney keeps the Simpsons.

Comcast will require capital to exchange hands. While I think Hulk distribution rights for those Dreamworks distribution rights is fair, Comcast has more stuff that the mouse would want (Hulu and theme park rights in Orlando, Spidey theme park rights in Japan). They could arguably harder to deal with than Sony.

It's next week.

Lol. Merger Monday?