The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - Part 14

[Astro13Zombie]

This has to happen eventually now right?

 

[Big Bang]

I read that Disney might split into two

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/will-disney-eventually-split-two-post-fox-merger-1065902

Disney scaling up runs completely contrary to the argument that the author and some investment bankers are making. Their whole point in this acquisition is to strengthen their independence. Splitting into two to make themselves attractive to the very companies they are trying to compete with is something a major investment firm with a ton of money tied up in technology companies would want. Though I'm not surprised that some of them are starting to make this argument already. It wasn't not too long ago that some of these people were making a case for Verizon to acquire Disney.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

There's generally a reason non-A-list characters are not A-list. It strikes me as ludicrous to gripe about updates or tweaks to these characters that might make them more appealing but to defend the decomposition of the things that made actual A-list characters... well... A-list to begin with.

I haven't seen JL yet but I will never forgive Snyder for totally ruining Superman - a character I've loved my whole life for being exactly who he is - and wasting an actor like Cavill who really could have done a fantastic true-to-life version of the Man of Steel had he been better directed and given a better story.

Whereas movie Yondu is nothing like the comic version and not someone I really even cared about honestly but Gunn's version of the character literally moved me to tears watching GOTG v2.

I was actually pretty down on GOTG2 after I first saw it in theaters but on rewatch I enjoyed it much more and appreciated the heart behind the characters and story. I agree with Flint that Drax did show character growth by lightening up a little in the sequel but there was the moment where Mantis touches him and experiences his pain that was very poignant and made me realize he's still very wounded inside. How often do people use humor to hide real pain inside? People who think the MCU films are just comedies are missing the forest for the trees if you ask me.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I thought Drax already says that it is really Thanos he has to kill at the end of GotG 1??

He did.

 

[Dark Raven]

This has to happen eventually now right?

We'll never fully be able to have Secret Wars as it was originally told until we get She-Hulk and Spider-Woman ready to use.

I'm sure they can do their own version of it though. It would be a way to bring the Avengers and X-Men together from two separate universes. It might even be better that way than saying all the heroes are just from one earth.

 

[GoblinScrier]

Well now we have had 2 awesome Secret Wars storylines:

The original 1984 storyline that culminated with Doom taking on the Beyonder and becoming supreme

OR

The 2015 event where the last two universes, 616 and the Ultimate were pieced together by God Emperor Doom to form Battleworld and thus giving him complete control over the multiverse

Either one is fine with me as long as Doom is the forefront badass!!!!

 

[metaphysician]

All the studios alter things from the books. Some times its small, sometimes its major. The trick is to make those changes work. Not just for the general audience, but ideally for us comic books fans too. When they pull that off the general audience is usually none the wiser, and we fans are generally more willing and able to give the changes a pass.

When changes don't work the films usually suffer with the critics and at the BO and most of us are none to willing to give them any pass for screwing up. It's also infuriating for us fans if the GA are left with the impression the botched altered attempts are indeed representative of the material we love.

So when Fox butchers the Fantastic Four with an effort like FFINO, there's no redemption in the film being good, the GA loving it, it being a big success etc. It's just an ill conceived epic fail.

There's also the simple matter: not all changes are equivalent. Bluntly, a lot of fans overlook or ignore what are the actual core concepts and aspects of a character, versus what are the superficial features. I find that a certain problematic segment of the fan base tends to focus *are* too much on the latter. Hence why you have people complain about a Zemo whose still motivated by revenge due to personal 'wrong' from the Avengers, still a genius, still an intriguer, and still delivers to them one of their worst defeats ever. . . because he doesn't wear a pink sock on his head, which is The Most Important Thing.

Or my personal favorite, people who complain about Ultron not being faithful to the comic. . . and then insisting he should be cold and ruthlessly unemotional. Thus proving they have never read a comic with Ultron in it in their life.

 

[Marvel united]

We'll never fully be able to have Secret Wars as it was originally told until we get She-Hulk and Spider-Woman ready to use.

I'm sure they can do their own version of it though. It would be a way to bring the Avengers and X-Men together from two separate universes. It might even be better that way than saying all the heroes are just from one earth.

Really hate the latter idea. I keep seeing it suggested by fans of Fox's X-Men as a way to bring Singer's X-Men into the MCU. I'd rather they just be introduced in MCU proper. The dynamic between the Avengers and X-Men would be much more interesting to see if they were from the same Univese. To see how the world of the MCU reacts to the emergence of mutants

 

[Dark Raven]

Well now we have had 2 awesome Secret Wars storylines:

The original 1984 storyline that culminated with Doom taking on the Beyonder and becoming supreme

OR

The 2015 event where the last two universes, 616 and the Ultimate were pieced together by God Emperor Doom to form Battleworld and thus giving him complete control over the multiverse

Either one is fine with me as long as Doom is the forefront badass!!!!

I'd rather have the classic one with Doom taking on the Beyonder. But they can take a bit from the 2015 version with the Beyonder being the one to bring together two universes instead. I think that would be the best.

I could even see that as a two-part film like Infinity War. Maybe they could even have the first part be the original classic, and the 2nd part be about Doom having usurped the power of the Beyonder and more similar to the 2015 version. But then it would end like the classic with Doom losing control and Cap taking him on.

Really hate the latter idea. I keep seeing it suggested by fans of Fox's X-Men as a way to bring Singer's X-Men into the MCU. I'd rather they just be introduced in MCU proper. The dynamic between the Avengers and X-Men would be much more interesting to see if they were from the same Univese.

I don't want Singer's X-Men brought in as such. I just would prefer that they can bring the X-Men in from a world where they've faced mutant persecution from the start. At the moment it doesn't gel with the current MCU where the heroes are revered. Why would they suddenly feel different about mutants, some of whom people might not even know are mutants?

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Do you think the MCU is gonna split in two? (Still Connected though)

Gunn's Cosmic Universe I think can be it's own thing if he's EPing more movies I think?

I'm thinking the space characters will be leading up to Annihilation. Since that's the book that got GotG green light in the first place.

Really hate the latter idea. I keep seeing it suggested by fans of Fox's X-Men as a way to bring Singer's X-Men into the MCU.

The FOXMEN look kinda flabby and sick. MCU Avenger's would laugh at this fight. We need new X-MEN put in the Marvel Workout plan

 

[Marvel united]

Heroes aren't really revered in the MCU anymore. The Accords & mass casualties from Avengers battles have divided public opinion on all heroes. And even then, it's much more interesting to explore why exactly people hate mutants but cheer for heroes like the Avengers than to have some ransom version of the X-Men we've never seen before suddenly come from an alternative Univese.

Mutants can easily still face persecution and prejudice in the confines of the current MCU without all of the mumbo jumbo about them coming from a parallel universe

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

I don't want Singer's X-Men brought in as such. I just would prefer that they can bring the X-Men in from a world where they've faced mutant persecution from the start. At the moment it doesn't gel with the current MCU where the heroes are revered. Why would they suddenly feel different about mutants, some of whom people might not even know are mutants?

As the MCU sits now nobody would know they are mutants. If just strong mutant then a super soldier formulation would be suspected, if a physics defying power was in play then that they were Inhuman. Which is why it made sense for Tony Stark to blow off Peter Parker telling him an origin story. Stark would be expected to cut him off like the Inhuman Hawaii prison did to Black Bolt with the line of "let me guess you woke up one day with the remains of a black cocoon and found that you could do things"

 

[Iceman]

Heroes aren't really revered in the MCU anymore. The Accords & mass casualties from Avengers battles have divided public opinion on all heroes. And even then, it's much more interesting to explore why exactly people hate mutants but cheer for heroes like the Avengers than to have some ransom version of the X-Men we've never seen before suddenly come from an alternative Univese.

Mutants can easily still face persecution and prejudice in the confines of the current MCU without all of the mumbo jumbo about them coming from a parallel universe

I think after those recent events mutants popping up all over the place wouldn't be received too well which could play into their storyline.

 

[Dark Raven]

If the X-Men are introduced into the MCU, then what happens to the Inhumans both in the TV and comics department? Do the comics stop pushing them as the replacement for mutants and make them go back to what the Inhumans originally were (which was not much beyond the Royal family)? And do the Inhumans in AOS just disappear and are never acknowledged in the movies?

If Inhumans had babies, then wouldn't these be mutants? In fact, if Spidey had a child, he or she would also be a mutant. Isn't a mutant, when it really comes down to it, just that they were born that way rather than that they got their powers at a later stage?

 

[WeaponXCII]

All right guys, so I've been thinking a lot about the deal, and I just can't seem to make sense of it completely. Here are some questions that I have:

1. It's next week. We all wake up and read the announcement: Disney and Fox have closed the deal. At that very moment, who legally owns the X-Men (and the Fantastic Four)?

2. Could Disney/Marvel Studios greenlight/begin preproduction the very same day or the next day, if they chose to?

3. Is the deal better visually represented as this

or this?

4. Is finalizing the deal more accurately described as a singular event, or a process?

5. I've seen a lot of comments about paperwork needing to be filled out, things needing to be finalized, details needing to be worked out, and so on. Could anyone elaborate on this?

6. It's been said that "when the accountants are brought in, the deal is done." True? What exactly does "done" mean in this context?

7. I read online that Boone is talking about a New Mutants sequel, but when the deal goes through, all of that changes, right?

8. At what point will the ink be dried, rendering Fox unable to put into production more X-films?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Big Bang]

1. It's next week. We all wake up and read the announcement: Disney and Fox have closed the deal. At that very moment, who legally owns the X-Men (and the Fantastic Four)?

At that very moment? Fox. Until the deal is cleared by the DOJ and it goes through final closure where cash/stock/whatever is cleared and final paperwork is signed. ONCE that happens, Disney is free to say internally or otherwise that all rights are now Marvel's.

2. Could Disney/Marvel Studios greenlight/begin preproduction the very same day or the next day, if they chose to?

Officially, NO. They can begin PRELIMINARY plans internally. Just like they have formulated contingencies. They can internally do this.

3. Is the deal better visually represented as this

or this?

Option 1. Various steps are taken place then you get the final outcome. The point where it goes from being back to lighter grey is kind of where we are about to be.

4. Is finalizing the deal more accurately described as a singular event, or a process?

Process. Other things need to take place once deal is agreed to and announced.

5. I've seen a lot of comments about paperwork needing to be filled out, things needing to be finalized, details needing to be worked out, and so on. Could anyone elaborate on this?

tl;dr. Deal is agreed. Deal is announced. Deal is submitted to Department of Justice for review. Deal is approved (or not). Deal closes and assets are transferred. Disney assumes control.

6. It's been said that "when the accountants are brought in, the deal is done." True? What exactly does "done" mean in this context?

All kinds of things are going on. Financial and legal offices are retained to go through all assets, etc. with a fine tooth comb. Any outstanding issues or commitments with other parties are identified, outlined, agreed. etc. There are all kinds of things that have to be looked at before transfer occurs. Reports that they are at this point is VERY encouraging. Deal is done when DOJ has approved and CEO's & attorneys for both companies sign off. Then comes the financial transfers.

7. I read online that Boone is talking about a New Mutants sequel, but when the deal goes through, all of that changes, right?

To be determined. That will be for Disney to review or approve/cancel. Until actual transfer takes place, they continue on like nothing is happening.

8. At what point will the ink be dried, rendering Fox unable to put into production more X-films?

Generally speaking, the process (once announced) can take 6 months to a year to finish. That doesn't account for any issues that might come up (see AT&T+Time Warner). In which case longer.


Large acquisitions / mergers are not something that are taken lightly, hence why the process is slow.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

All right guys, so I've been thinking a lot about the deal, and I just can't seem to make sense of it completely. Here are some questions that I have:

1. It's next week. We all wake up and read the announcement: Disney and Fox have closed the deal. At that very moment, who legally owns the X-Men (and the Fantastic Four)?

2. Could Disney/Marvel Studios greenlight/begin preproduction the very same day or the next day, if they chose to?

3. Is the deal better visually represented as this

or this?

4. Is finalizing the deal more accurately described as a singular event, or a process?

5. I've seen a lot of comments about paperwork needing to be filled out, things needing to be finalized, details needing to be worked out, and so on. Could anyone elaborate on this?

6. It's been said that "when the accountants are brought in, the deal is done." True? What exactly does "done" mean in this context?

7. I read online that Boone is talking about a New Mutants sequel, but when the deal goes through, all of that changes, right?

8. At what point will the ink be dried, rendering Fox unable to put into production more X-films?

Thanks in advance!

Unless any side deals were made (which is quite possible considering the circumstances) both companies will, by law, be required to act as completely independent companies until the deal is approved (likely around fall 2018).

But Marvel can begin planning and even film scenes that could be used in films that will be released after the expected finalization date.

And because of the special circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if Disney/Marvel created a side-deal that allowed them to regain the FF and X-Men rights for a fee. Since that would be a very simple transfer, that could take place immediately and not require government approval.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

As an example of the side deal I would do if I were Marvel. "Okay. We agree in principle on the multi-billion buy out, and we will sign that as agreed. But prior to that, we want to take back our character rights, and for that, we will pay you the reasonable price of X. No matter what happens with the larger deal, that rights transfer will happen immediately and take effect prior to us entering into the larger deal. "

And that value of X dollars would be subtracted from the total purchase price.

And the transfer would be written in a way to allow Fox to continue with projects currently in development.

 

[Big Bang]

As an example of the side deal I would do if I were Marvel. "Okay. We agree in principle on the multi-billion buy out, and we will sign that as agreed. But prior to that, we want to take back our character rights, and for that, we will pay you the reasonable price of X. No matter what happens with the larger deal, that rights transfer will happen immediately and take effect prior to us entering into the larger deal. "

And that value of X dollars would be subtracted from the total purchase price.

And the transfer would be written in a way to allow Fox to continue with projects currently in development.

Regarding rights transfer is something to watch closely when the deal is officially announced. Most curious to see how that is framed.

 

[TheVileOne]

You shouldn't be expecting Fantastic Four, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Deadpool, X-Men, and Mutant characters to show up in the post credits of Infinity War. Things aren't going to change that quickly.

As Big Boom pointed out, any deal that gets announced would have to go through an approvals process by the federal government, who could still potentially kill the deal. IE, the Department of Justice moved to block the AT&T/Time Warner merger.

 

[Dark Raven]

You shouldn't be expecting Fantastic Four, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Deadpool, X-Men, and Mutant characters to show up in the post credits of Infinity War. Things aren't going to change that quickly.

As Big Boom pointed out, any deal that gets announced would have to go through an approvals process by the federal government, who could still potentially kill the deal. IE, the Department of Justice moved to block the AT&T/Time Warner merger.

They might block AT&T/ TW on the whole, but what reason would they have to block just the sale of the Marvel assets back to Disney?

 

[Web-Head]

2020 is the earliest I could see this deal affecting the MCU. A certain character could show up in Guardians 3, but I think 2021 is the earliest we would probably get the F4 or something X-Men related.

 

[TheVileOne]

They might block AT&T/ TW on the whole, but what reason would they have to block just the sale of the Marvel assets back to Disney?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney...heaters-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi-1509528603

Disney controlling all this media and content also means they can control the price and they can lay down heftier demands for the content for theatrical business owners and consumers with their new subscription services.

I mean they can come up with any number of reasons I'm sure. Just like they did with Microsoft over a decade ago.

Dark Raven, I'm not saying they necessarily will. But the possibilities are definitely there.

 

[Big Bang]

They might block AT&T/ TW on the whole, but what reason would they have to block just the sale of the Marvel assets back to Disney?

Any reason for blocking Disney/Fox would be sketchy at best. The DOJ could raise concerns that the combined company could try to gouge competitors with high rates for any broadcast fees. Yet, this could easily be countered with a willingness to give the court a written commitment not to.

I can see the lawyers with being tasked with answering pointed questions (such as about job losses, fewer opportunities, etc.).

Disney could also tee up many side deals that are conciliatory to its competitors (divesting certain IP's) in return for rights to properties it also already owns.

Until they reach this point there is no telling how the DOJ will approach it, but they have far less baggage than either Comcast or the AT&T/Time Warner deal.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney...heaters-on-star-wars-the-last-jedi-1509528603

Disney controlling all this media and content also means they can control the price and they can lay down heftier demands for the content for theatrical business owners and consumers with their new subscription services.

I mean they can come up with any number of reasons I'm sure. Just like they did with Microsoft over a decade ago.

Dark Raven, I'm not saying they necessarily will. But the possibilities are definitely there.

and this is a fair point that the DOJ would be fools not to bring up. This is something the DOJ should be getting an agreement from them not to do so (in written form).

 

[TheVileOne]

Any reason for blocking Disney/Fox would be sketchy at best. The DOJ could raise concerns that the combined company could try to gouge competitors with high rates for any broadcast fees. Yet, this could easily be countered with a willingness to give the court a written commitment not to.

I can see the lawyers with being tasked with answering pointed questions (such as about job losses, fewer opportunities, etc.).

Disney could also tee up many side deals that are conciliatory to its competitors (divesting certain IP's) in return for rights to properties it also already owns.

Until they reach this point there is no telling how the DOJ will approach it, but they have far less baggage than either Comcast or the AT&T/Time Warner deal.

and this is a fair point that the DOJ would be fools not to bring up. This is something the DOJ should be getting an agreement from them not to do so (in written form).

Exactly. Disney might throw their weight around saying "Nyah! We got Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and everything Marvel and all those things you want, so you better pay up!" Disney is already doing it with Star Wars. And this puts Disney in a position of them monopolizing all the biggest IP in media. If it is within DOJ's power to get something like that in writing, they should.

Also, in terms of dealmaking, nothing means squat if it's said verbally. It has be done in writing.