The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 18

[Detective Conan]

Can I ask why do the FF movies feel need to have Doom have romantic feelings for Sue? I think the first one(the theatrically released one, not the Corman one) he was already dating Sue or something and there's this lame jealously angle in the most dumbest love triangle in history. In Trank one Victor also has a thing for Sue --- does this have any precedent in the source material?

 

[1627523]

I loved both Fargo and Legion, but I have concerns that what I like in those shows might not translate.

First off, the style and story-telling involved in a 13 episode TV series is vastly different than a big-budget feature film. Can Hawley make the leap? Maybe, but it is a risk because he's never done a film before.

There's also a key phrase that McFeely said that I haven't heard in any form from Hawley: "I would do the thing that they never do which is to stick to the comic book". Does Hawley know and like and respect the Doom from the comics or is he simply going to use the name and create a political thriller that has no relation to the character we want to see? Until I hear more from him, I don't know.


And that brings up the final and most important point: If Hawley is working for Marvel, I can't wait. because Marvel has shown they understand the characters and respect the characters and the final film will feature the comic-book character. If they were behind Hawley, I'd know the film would be based on the comic books.


Fox has shown contempt for the comic books and an unwillingness to do the things necessary to pay tribute to the comics. As long as Hawley is working for Fox (or Comcast), I have no faith the final product will be anything close to what I want to see.


Josh Trank showed a lot of talent with Chronicle. And I believe to this day, if Trank had been working for Marvel, they would have given him the guidance and support and surrounding talent (production design, etc) that he could have made a great FF film. But we saw what happened when he was working with Fox.


I have no reason to believe Hawley won't have his talent squandered in a similar way if he's working for Fox (or Comcast).

Noah Hawley is making the jump to directing next year in 2019. he's directing an astronaut drama and Jon Hamm and natelie Portmand are starring. When he does that movie he should transition nicely to Dr.doom since he would have sufficient experience in directing. Fox nowadays are more open than they were before so if Dr.Doom is as comic accurate as Deadpool or even First class than I think we're in good hands. Based on Noah's comments theres nothing to suggest he's not going to be comic accurate and he seems to be saying the right things also For his show Legion he showed david Haller in his comic accurate look. Noah even acknowledged the the Doom character has been under-served in a previous interview. He's already one of FX's golden gooses along with Donald Glover, so I can see fox giving him creative freedom and Noah already mentioned the studio likes his current script ( although he's not entirely finished with it).

 

[MasterCat]

Can I ask why do the FF movies feel need to have Doom have romantic feelings for Sue? I think the first one(the theatrically released one, not the Corman one) he was already dating Sue or something and there's this lame jealously angle in the most dumbest love triangle in history. In Trank one Victor also has a thing for Sue --- does this have any precedent in the source material?

Any precedent as of 2005? Not that I recall. In the 2015 version of Secret Wars he rewrote reality so that he's the father of Sue's children, but that seems to have been more a development of the "Valeria loves Doom and he reciprocates" and "I love screwing with Richards" traits than any erotic feelings for Sue.

 

[Crimz]

Can I ask why do the FF movies feel need to have Doom have romantic feelings for Sue? I think the first one(the theatrically released one, not the Corman one) he was already dating Sue or something and there's this lame jealously angle in the most dumbest love triangle in history. In Trank one Victor also has a thing for Sue --- does this have any precedent in the source material?

Because love triangles are an easy and boring Hollywood trope. It provides easy drama, so it's used often. Also, it gives Sue something to do because the films don't know how to handle her beyond being the "girl" of the team. It makes Doom's motivations even less engaging and is pretty misogynistic for Sue that her only story in the films are that two guys are fighting over her.

 

[TheVileOne]

Dude, I swear in every Thanos appearance in the MCU prior to Infinity War it seemed to me that his characterization was going to be the grinning psychopath of the comics but then they did a complete 180 in Infinity War and took his character in a totally different direction to the point he became a different character.

I'm not going to die on the hill for that or whatever, but I totally 100% see what you are talking about. They clearly did not know how to take Thanos in that direction for the films.

 

[TheVileOne]

THAT Zemo was a better villain than both Dr. Dooms done by Fox.

Meh, not really.

 

[Iceman]

Meh, not really.

You like those Dooms?

 

[ironwez20]

Meh, not really.

Doom in the first movies looked the most like doom but fant4stic was awful

 

[Drexelhand]

You like those Dooms?

Rise of the Silver Surfer Doom was all right... I think... I... don't remember... no... I don't think so... no... he was crap.

 

[Iceman]

Rise of the Silver Surfer Doom was all right... I think... I... don't remember... no... I don't think so... no... he was crap.

You got there in the end

 

[Dark Raven]

Julian McMahon has still managed to show up in the MCU. His appearance has been a runaway success.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Rise of the Silver Surfer Doom was all right... I think... I... don't remember... no... I don't think so... no... he was crap.

I'm not sure how the Zemo discussion really relates to Doom in the MCU. does anyone seriously think Doom will be another Zemo?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Overall, I'd say Marvel gets roughly 85% of their characters right. Fox gets maybe 20-30% and Fox has far more that are spectacularly wrong than Marvel does.

In gauging what we should expect from either studio in the future, we should look at the broad gestalt, not unique examples of what one studio got right or wrong.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Zemo was actually a good villain. Doom in all 3 FF films (excluding Corman) was a dumpster fire.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I am hoping that Fox (and Comcast if they buy them) learns something from Deadpool and recognizes the potential if they do stay true to the character.

I just hope they don't make the mistake of thinking "the key is an R-rating". Logan and Deadpool both did well with R-ratings, but it wasn't the rating that defined them. They were well-done films made by people who knew and understood and respected the characters.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Zemo was actually a good villain. Doom in all 3 FF films (excluding Corman) was a dumpster fire.

True, and I think if Marvel had simply called Zemo by a different name, there'd be no problem at all.

 

[honestbharani]

It is a watered down version of why they had "Mandarin" in Iron Man 3. IMO, Feige just likes to ensure he uses the most famous and iconic villains of respective heroes in their threequels. Thor got Surtur (I believe he is amongst the best Thor villains), Iron Man got Mandarin (reimagined and a needless bait-switch which was retconned) and Cap gets Zemo (reimagined again but in a much less insulting manner to the CB faithful).

 

[ADollarADay]

Disney shares downgraded to sell on concern the battle for Fox has placed company in an unwinnable situation

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/dis...laced-company-in-an-unwinnable-situation.html

Disney is expected to counter Comcast's offer with more cash

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3364545-cnbc-disney-expected-add-cash-bid-fox-assets

 

[Spider-Fan]

It is a watered down version of why they had "Mandarin" in Iron Man 3. IMO, Feige just likes to ensure he uses the most famous and iconic villains of respective heroes in their threequels. Thor got Surtur (I believe he is amongst the best Thor villains), Iron Man got Mandarin (reimagined and a needless bait-switch which was retconned) and Cap gets Zemo (reimagined again but in a much less insulting manner to the CB faithful).

Cap's most iconic foe is Red Skull. Who got used in TFA. Thor's most iconic is Loki, who got used in Thor. Your point makes no sense.

 

[Detective Conan]

Disney shares downgraded to sell on concern the battle for Fox has placed company in an unwinnable situation

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/dis...laced-company-in-an-unwinnable-situation.html

Disney is expected to counter Comcast's offer with more cash

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3364545-cnbc-disney-expected-add-cash-bid-fox-assets

Disney may not want Fox as much as Comcast does. If things go south, this could be a very fatal blow to Disney. Then Iger will know how Roberts felt when his bid to buy Disney failed in 2004. Unless Disney puts in some serious cash(like overspend like crazy) then it’s at this point it’s hard to see Disney prevailing as the victor of this bidding war.

It’s as Greenfield said, Roberts after his previous two failed takeovers of Disney and Warner Bros. simply will not allow himself to lose a third time. The Mouse better pull something up their sleeve that Comcast isn’t expecting or they’re going to inevitably lose Fox to Comcast.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Disney may not want Fox as much as Comcast does. If things go south, this could be a very fatal blow to Disney. Then Iger will know how Roberts felt when his bid to buy Disney failed in 2004. Unless Disney puts in some serious cash(like overspend like crazy) then it’s at this point it’s hard to see Disney prevailing as the victor of this bidding war.

It’s as Greenfield said, Roberts after his previous two failed takeovers of Disney and Warner Bros. simply will not allow himself to lose a third time. The Mouse better pull something up their sleeve that Comcast isn’t expecting or they’re going to inevitably lose Fox to Comcast.

They were talking about the downgrade on Squawkbox this morning and they said the downgrade indicated it looks like Disney might pay too much... but they also thought that if Disney doesn't get it, that will hurt them and their current stock valuation is too high for either case.

And I can't argue, I wouldn't be touching Disney stock right now. But they can't quit. They have to keep pushing

I suspect Disney's next offer will probably be their final offer, so the big question is: "Is Comcast's current offer their final offer?"

My gut-feeling is that after Disney's next bid, Comcast will pick up the phone and see if there's a chance they can get Sky. And I think Disney will be more willing to talk about that than they were two months ago.

...which might have been Comcast's intention all along and wouldn't be a bad strategy.

Net result in that case - Comcast gets Sky and Disney pays more than they would have, and that's a better result for Comcast than if they hadn't bid.

 

[honestbharani]

Cap's most iconic foe is Red Skull. Who got used in TFA. Thor's most iconic is Loki, who got used in Thor. Your point makes no sense.

I am not surprised it doesn't. I have never read any of these comics. My exposure, as I have said many times in SHH, to these characters comes from cartoons, animated shows and movies. But in my time of scouring various youtube shows on SH movie related discussions, this was the feeling I got. Happy to learn if this is not the case.

EDIT: FWIW, the point still stands about Zemo himself. The Russos clearly laid out how they wanted a guy to be moving these pieces and the idea of a son taking revenge for the death of his father due to the actions of Cap (as part of the Avengers) gave them the idea to name that character Zemo. As I said, it felt a less controversial reimagination than the Mandarin.

 

[Iceman]

They were talking about the downgrade on Squawkbox this morning and they said the downgrade indicated it looks like Disney might pay too much... but they also thought that if Disney doesn't get it, that will hurt them and their current stock valuation is too high for either case.

And I can't argue, I wouldn't be touching Disney stock right now. But they can't quit. They have to keep pushing

I suspect Disney's next offer will probably be their final offer, so the big question is: "Is Comcast's current offer their final offer?"

My gut-feeling is that after Disney's next bid, Comcast will pick up the phone and see if there's a chance they can get Sky. And I think Disney will be more willing to talk about that than they were two months ago.

...which might have been Comcast's intention all along and wouldn't be a bad strategy.

Net result in that case - Comcast gets Sky and Disney pays more than they would have, and that's a better result for Comcast than if they hadn't bid.

If that was their intention maybe they could have just bid for Sky in the first place.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If that was their intention maybe they could have just bid for Sky in the first place.

But Fox owns a big chunk of Sky. They need that chunk, so they've either got to buy Fox or find a way to get Disney to sell it to them.

 

[ADollarADay]

But Fox owns a big chunk of Sky. They need that chunk, so they've either got to buy Fox or find a way to get Disney to sell it to them.

Comcast's leadership has made it crystal clear that this is a separate bid altogether. They have also made it clear that they are okay just owning a majority of Sky and not 100% of it.

You do not make a 65B gamble if you have no intention of going through with it.