The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

[Iceman]

Who said it had to be RDJ? Just use Riri Williams.

I wouldn't mind seeing her after a break. Introduce her as a youngster before she puts on the suit in Phase 5 maybe.

 

[Smurphftw]

The bar is the minimum standard Think high jump in athletics.

The bar for Fox X-films is very low, but on several occasions they have cleared it by a huge distance.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, but it made me chuckle

 

[MasterCat]

which Greek tragedy?
and what real-world? it was intended to be hyper stylized & evoking the old Bond movies

It's a modern Greek tragedy where Xavier's flaw is that he doesn't understand others (also counts as dramatic irony because he's a telepath). 95% of the scenes in the film lead up to the climax on the beach where he begs a Holocaust survivor to spare American and Soviet sailors who were ordered to kill them because "they're innocent men, just following orders!"
And the real world of the 1960s? The Jewish trauma, the nuclear stand-off, civil rights, etc. It seems that being set in the past was the only way for screenwriters to be brave enough to address sociopolitical issues on a more serious level that Iron Man 3's "terrorists of color are a fiction invented by white CEOs to sell weapons" conspiracy theory.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I mean, I guess that could work. But I want Doom to be this mysterious figure that nobody knows much about. The layers should slowly be pulled back over the course of a couple of films where we learn about him being peers with Reed and the accident that scarred his face.

Yeah, I guess it doesn't need to be specifically shown initially as long as it's part of his back-story. I just don't want them changing the character in a way that would erase that iconic rivalry, and I'm afraid if they feature him in a different film they might try to reinvent him.

 

[Iceman]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this, but it made me chuckle

Ok, that’ll do fine mate t:

 

[Crimz]

If he hates Reed so much, he'd come after them in their first sequel.
And no one wants to wait 3 years after a film from a cursed franchise to see Marvel's greatest antagonist.

Cursed franchise.... You do know that Doom is considered just as "cursed" as the FF right? The GA wouldn't give a damn that he's not in the first two films.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Cursed franchise.... You do know that Doom is considered just as "cursed" as the FF right? The GA wouldn't give a damn that he's not in the first two films.

This is what I found amusing when people were getting excited by a Fox Doom film. Nobody wants to see a Fox FF film, because they've shown they can't make an FF film after three bad efforts... but Doom was also in all of those three bad efforts.

 

[HBarnill]

It's a modern Greek tragedy where Xavier's flaw is that he doesn't understand others (also counts as dramatic irony because he's a telepath). 95% of the scenes in the film lead up to the climax on the beach where he begs a Holocaust survivor to spare American and Soviet sailors who were ordered to kill them because "they're innocent men, just following orders!"
And the real world of the 1960s? The Jewish trauma, the nuclear stand-off, civil rights, etc. It seems that being set in the past was the only way for screenwriters to be brave enough to address sociopolitical issues on a more serious level that Iron Man 3's "terrorists of color are a fiction invented by white CEOs to sell weapons" conspiracy theory.

It was a brilliant commentary on America’s islamophobia.

 

[MasterCat]

Doctor Doom has been in non-F4 cartoons and "Marvel's villain problem" is something the GA discusses on the regular. Pushing out an F4 film in 2021 and then "saving" one of their two best antagonists for a film that won't come until 2027 at the earliest makes no sense.

 

[MasterCat]

It was a brilliant commentary on America’s islamophobia.

It's false. The Holocaust, the Cuban Missile Crisis and the '60s civil rights movement were all real. Iron Man 3 chose to lie about the real world for fear of not being PC enough, and that's one of several reasons that First Class is a better film.

 

[Spiderine]

Its very obvious to me that any approach Fiege takes with Doom and the four will be very different from any of the previous incarnations. Which is why I definitely see Doom being introduced apart from them.

Homecoming would be the model used. Look for the 4 to battle a new villain. And Proper Doom to tangle with a different hero first.

 

[2kt09]

It's a modern Greek tragedy where Xavier's flaw is that he doesn't understand others (also counts as dramatic irony because he's a telepath). 95% of the scenes in the film lead up to the climax on the beach where he begs a Holocaust survivor to spare American and Soviet sailors who were ordered to kill them because "they're innocent men, just following orders!"
And the real world of the 1960s? The Jewish trauma, the nuclear stand-off, civil rights, etc. It seems that being set in the past was the only way for screenwriters to be brave enough to address sociopolitical issues on a more serious level than Iron Man 3's "terrorists of color are a fiction invented by white CEOs to sell weapons" conspiracy theory.

All of that was in a very fast-and-loose reimagined origin for Magneto (the brunt of which this "greek tagedy" may come from), Mystique & Xavier. It stood out to me that the "civil rights" stuff was brushed off so quickly whilst the kids were debating in that party scene. I'm accustomed to the X-flicks addressing sociopolitical issues on a more serious level. Setting them in the past, gets right in the middle of those dated issues.

 

[MasterCat]

Homecoming would be the model used. Look for the 4 to battle a new villain. And Proper Doom to tangle with a different hero first.

I just hope Doom's character arc starts no later than the year of the first F4 film, and they don't make a hash of "tangling with a different hero first." Like I can see Doomwar being goofy if it's BP2. "Oh look, T'Challa is thought dead for the third time since 2018! But he got better! And now Doom looks kind of wimpy."

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Its very obvious to me that any approach Fiege takes with Doom and the four will be very different from any of the previous incarnations. Which is why I definitely see Doom being introduced apart from them.

Homecoming would be the model used. Look for the 4 to battle a new villain. And Proper Doom to tangle with a different hero first.

I think one cool way to do it would be to feature a villain like Moleman, Annihilus etc. in the first FF film and then feature an after-credit's scene that shows Doom was watching the whole thing.

Then after that, Doom could show up anywhere.

 

[galmorzu]

If heroes are just protecting themselves, they're not heroes, they're just trying to survive. Sadly too many films and TV shows don't recognize that basic premise.

That's why I've always loved the Death of Superman. Doomsday was always one note, but that's not what made him effective in my book. It's that he represents everything a hero is around to protect people from (pain, suffering, destruction, cruelty) and everything that puts a hero's true mettle to the test (almost certain death if they go up against it, with only the hero's determination to save the people giving them the strength to fight against the odds).


There's a point when Doomsday has beaten Superman so bad, everyone around him realizes that he might actually lose the fight. But Superman is determined to go back into the fight again despite the possibility he's not coming out of it because people are still endangered and he knows they need him.


That has always been very effective to me.

 

[MasterCat]

I think Skrulls would be far better than Moleman or esp. Annihilus. Moleman could be OK if their origin involves the derelict rocket splashing down a kilometer from Monster Island and it turns into a kaiju film, but they'd need a director who knows how to make a kaiju film and it still wouldn't build to anything bigger.
Having them abducted from Low Earth Orbit by a Skrull UFO would set up an alien empire that can abduct anyone with powers and engineer Super-Skrulls.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I recently had this idea, what if the cosmic waves Reed and co investigate was actually an annihilation wave, and through some science mumbo jumbo the FF end up in the Negative Zone, which morphs them into the FF we know and they battle Annihulus and stop the wave? Would give us the opportunity to experience the FF as a space faring, adventuring family.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That's why I've always loved the Death of Superman. Doomsday was always one note, but that's not what made him effective in my book. It's that he represents everything a hero is around to protect people from (pain, suffering, destruction, cruelty) and everything that puts a hero's true mettle to the test (almost certain death if they go up against it, with only the hero's determination to save the people giving them the strength to fight against the odds).


There's a point when Doomsday has beaten Superman so bad, everyone around him realizes that he might actually lose the fight. But Superman is determined to go back into the fight again despite the possibility he's not coming out of it because people are still endangered and he knows they need him.


That has always been very effective to me.

The whole point of a hero is they should have to risk themselves for a greater good. If the villain is just obsessed with trying to kill the hero (as we see in too many stories), what choice do they even have? Either fight or be killed. That's not a heroic choice.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I recently had this idea, what if the cosmic waves Reed and co investigate was actually an annihilation wave, and through some science mumbo jumbo the FF end up in the Negative Zone, which morphs them into the FF we know and they battle Annihulus and stop the wave? Would give us the opportunity to experience the FF as a space faring, adventuring family.

There was a brief moment during the production of FF that someone claimed to have seen the script and it featured the FF in the negative zone battling monsters and meeting up with Annihilus. I actually thought that had potential (but of course we got nothing of the sort).

If they can give me an alien world with strange creatures and threats, be it in the negative zone, subterranea or someplace else, that's what I'd like to see, and that would put them on the map.

I want moments that feel like the first Alien movie. I want the audience on the edge of their seat as they explore a place so alien that neither the characters nor audience can guess what the next threat will be.

 

[rockman1216]

So this is just a vote?

Between what and what?

I mean Comcast dropped out of the race right?

Only Disney remains and it's not like anyone is coming to buy Fox apart from Disney so I'm guessing the vote will be unanimously sell to Disney

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Random question:

I get the Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver loophole between Disney and Fox, but how is Disney allowed to use other mutants like Typhoid Mary and Kilgrave for the MCU Iron Fist and Jessica Jones shows? If they are mutants shouldn't they technically be owned by FOX?

 

[galmorzu]

The whole point of a hero is they should have to risk themselves for a greater good. If the villain is just obsessed with trying to kill the hero (as we see in too many stories), what choice do they even have? Either fight or be killed. That's not a heroic choice.

You got it. And that's why Winter Soldier is one of my favorite movies. Captain America has a bullet wound and is beaten to a pulp going up against insane odds because a lot of people are going to die if he doesn't push through it all. The best moments for a hero are seeing them really have to struggle to dig up the strength to fight on just a bit more for others.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The whole point of a hero is they should have to risk themselves for a greater good. If the villain is just obsessed with trying to kill the hero (as we see in too many stories), what choice do they even have? Either fight or be killed. That's not a heroic choice.

I think in my concept of the Negative Zone, it should further mutate them the longer they're in it. They get more powerful but become less human as time goes on. Perhaps even we can explain Ben's change is more monstrous and cannot be shut off because he had to stay longer for a plot driven reason.

This is again just something I came up with. I like tinkering in my head, LOL!

 

[rockman1216]

Random question:

I get the Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver loophole between Disney and Fox, but how is Disney allowed to use other mutants like Typhoid Mary and Kilgrave for the MCU Iron Fist and Jessica Jones shows? If they are mutants shouldn't they technically be owned by FOX?

Fox doesn't have claim to all mutants also Kilgrave isn't a mutant as far as I'm concerned.

Fox has the rights to use the word mutant, and mutants as a concept and by concept I mean X-Gene, natural born powers and the whole puberty thing but that doesn't give them the right to the mutant characters. They have the rights to the characters detailed in the contracts and who are part of the X-Men but Marvel has the rights to certain mutant characters but in the MCU they can't make them mutants.

For instance Eden Feisi/ Manifold is a mutant which the MCU turned into an Inhuman and mentioned in Agents of SHIELD.

Typhoid Mary is a mutant but that doesn't mean Fox owns her since she is a character tied to properties outside the X-Men

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So this is just a vote?

Between what and what?

I mean Comcast dropped out of the race right?

Only Disney remains and it's not like anyone is coming to buy Fox apart from Disney so I'm guessing the vote will be unanimously sell to Disney

At this point it's pretty much academic. Shareholders need to decide if they want to take Disney's offer - which will make their investment worth nearly twice what it was before the rumors of Disney's interest leaked.

... or turn down the offer and watch the value of their stock plummet.

There's almost no question how the vote will go, but the shareholders get their say to make it official.