The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 20

[Silver Surfer]

... no. There's a reason every Hollywood film that cost more than $20 million dollars has been released to theaters. Just stop.

Have you been living under a rock? Netflix is spending billions on original content (TV and movies) for streaming. Bright, cost a $100 million, and the sequel is expected to cost even more. This isn't 2008, streaming is not only a feasible way to release big budget movies but in a lot of ways is preferred due to low marketing costs.

 

[Marvel united]

I could see Disney using DP as a marketing tool for their new streaming service

 

[MasterCat]

Cancelling a $180 million theatrical tentpole is not the same as Netflix financing Bright and you know it. You want it cancelled for fanboy reasons, oblivious to what's best for Disney. It's like that suggestion to trade 39% of Sky for east-of-the-Mississippi theme park rights and Namor film rights instead of cash.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Cancelling a $180 million theatrical tentpole is not the same as Netflix financing Bright and you know it. You want it cancelled for fanboy reasons, oblivious to what's beat for Disney. It's like that suggestion to trade 39% of Sky for east-of-the-Mississippi theme park rights and Namor film rights instead of cash.

Dude you are not making any sense, the 180m was not spent by Disney, it's just another product at this point that comes with the deal. It is perfectly feasible for them to use this as a draw for their new streaming service that Iger has said over and over again is their future bread and butter. It's just business and they need to compete with Netflix who is providing it's consumers with big budget tent pole movies on streaming.

 

[MasterCat]

(sigh) I'm trying to explain that expensive films made for theatrical release get theatrical release.
So you have this product that cost $180 million to make. You release it to theaters and hope it grosses as much as possible. That increases your company's revenue.
This was not budgeted, designed and marketed to get people to subscribe to a streaming service like Bright. Those series and films are budgeted and designed from the group up for that market (see: The Handmaid's Tale), or they are bad business decisions.
Stop expecting Disney to make bad business decisions for you.

 

[Marvel united]

The vote is in 10 days. Time to mark down your calendars.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It will get released. It is possible that Disney goes easy on the marketing or even gets involved in the editing process to remove things they REALLY don't like if they get the rights early enough.

 

[Silver Surfer]

(sigh) I'm trying to explain that expensive films made for theatrical release get theatrical release.
So you have this product that cost $180 million to make. You release it to theaters and hope it grosses as much as possible. That increases your company's revenue.
This was not budgeted, designed and marketed to get people to subscribe to a streaming service like Bright. Those series and films are budgeted and designed from the group up for that market (see: The Handmaid's Tale), or they are bad business decisions.
Stop expecting Disney to make bad business decisions for you.

Dude you just don't get it, Disney needs to compete with Netflix and the only way they can do that is to provided content, this is perfect for that, they didn't spend a dime making this movie and don't have to spend any more on marketing. They need draws to get people to subscribe to their service and a big tent-pole release that they get bundled in the fox deal is just what the doctor ordered. That is how business is done in 2018.

 

[MasterCat]

Let's say Dark Phoenix has the same domestic opening weekend as Apocalypse, $66 million, and a terrible multiplier of 2 like BvS, $132 million domestic. X-Men have also had a less America-centric box office than most superhero, with Apocalypse making about 75% overseas. So a gross of around $520 million for a bad movie.
You have no explanation for why this particular film would bring enough subscribers to net more revenue for Disney. Don't you just want to bury it because you're an MCU fanboy?

 

[ironwez20]

Everybody who wants the xmen to stop pumping out mediocre movies under fox is a fanoy i gues. its better if it got a streaming service since the brand isn't as strong under the fox name anymore as it use to be.

 

[Dark Raven]

Let's say Dark Phoenix has the same domestic opening weekend as Apocalypse, $66 million, and a terrible multiplier of 2 like BvS, $132 million domestic. X-Men have also had a less America-centric box office than most superhero, with Apocalypse making about 75% overseas. So a gross of around $520 million for a bad movie.
You have no explanation for why this particular film would bring enough subscribers to net more revenue for Disney. Don't you just want to bury it because you're an MCU fanboy?

What if it doesn't get Apocalypse numbers but Fant4stic numbers and makes less in its entire run than the original Ant-Man did in its first weekend?

There was some Chinese fantasy film called Asura which was the most expensive Chinese film ever made. It did disastrously in its opening weekend just gone, and was immediately pulled from theatres.

What if Dark Phoenix ends up being pulled early? That won't be good for business either. Just because it has been made and money spent doesn't mean it should be necessarily released. It depends on whether it's any good in the first place.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What if it doesn't get Apocalypse numbers but Fant4stic numbers and makes less in its entire run than the original Ant-Man did in its first weekend?

There was some Chinese fantasy film called Asura which was the most expensive Chinese film ever made. It did disastrously in its opening weekend just gone, and was immediately pulled from theatres.

What if Dark Phoenix ends up being pulled early? That won't be good for business either. Just because it has been made and money spent doesn't mean it should be necessarily released. It depends on whether it's any good in the first place.

I suspect it will do better than Fant4stic, but I think it is likely to do poorer than Apocalypse because X-Men is sliding and the performance of films in series are often related to what came before.

First class was a good film that came off a disappointing previous effort. It made $350 WW and reinvigorated the franchise.

DOFP was in a perfect spot because the combination of the excitement created by First Class and the return of Bryan Singer had fans anxious for the next effort, plus the film was reasonably good, and it made $750 WW.

Apocalypse was then set up to be huge... but it was a bad movie and only made $550.

Now they're in a bad spot. They're coming off a bad movie. The formula is becoming tired and Simon Kinberg has no talent. Dark Phoenix is likely to be pretty bad and get bad reviews.


The X-Men name is worth something, but unless this film is surprisingly good, I think it's going to be in a $200 - $300 range.

At the lower end of that range, Disney is only making about $100 million (minus marketing budget), so I think they have to be careful and not spend too much on marketing or risk any potential profit being lost in marketing expenses.

 

[Spider-Fan]

New Mutants I think will end up as a streaming movie. Dark Phoenix I doubt they do that with, though. Too much money involved and yes, Disney didn't spend that money, but they are absorbing FOX's debt, part of which is caught up in that movie. Disney will let it play out, maybe market it less but they absolutely won't turn down money and chances to alleviate some of that debt they absorbed.

 

[Iceman]

Can they look at what they’ve got and make changes to make it fit how they want the previous X-films signing off?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Can they look at what they’ve got and make changes to make it fit how they want the previous X-films signing off?

I highly doubt they'd do that. It's a dead franchise and this film is likely to be a complete turd. There's no point in polishing that turd so the franchise can die on a slightly higher note.

Fox decided, when they hired Kinberg, that they wanted to squeeze as much money as possible out of this iteration before rebooting, and now Disney is going to get stuck with that cynically-conceived mess.

I doubt a few pick-up shots here or there will be able to fix the turd Kinberg is currently straining to birth.

 

[Dark Raven]

I highly doubt they'd do that. It's a dead franchise and this film is likely to be a complete turd. There's no point in polishing that turd so the franchise can die on a slightly higher note.

Fox decided, when they hired Kinberg, that they wanted to squeeze as much money as possible out of this iteration before rebooting, and now Disney is going to get stuck with that cynically-conceived mess.

I doubt a few pick-up shots here or there will be able to fix the turd Kinberg is currently straining to birth.

No, but they can still spray that turd with Poo Pourri to stop it stinking up everything else, which is what it could do is they don't make sure it doesn't affect the MCU or put them in a bad place. It's a matter of damage control.

[YT]ZKLnhuzh9uY[/YT]

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I have to give Fox credit for at least apparently learning enough from Fant4stic to muzzle Kinberg. I've seen very little from him regarding this film, and once he starts opening his mouth, I suspect he'll start saying some really dumb things.

I read every word he said for a couple years, and became dumber with every word. I can't remember one intelligent thing he said throughout the entire production of Fant4stic.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

No, but they can still spray that turd with Poo Pourri to stop it stinking up everything else, which is what it could do is they don't make sure it doesn't affect the MCU or put them in a bad place. It's a matter of damage control.

[YT]ZKLnhuzh9uY[/YT]

 

[Xeno]

I have to give Fox credit for at least apparently learning enough from Fant4stic to muzzle Kinberg. I've seen very little from him regarding this film, and once he starts opening his mouth, I suspect he'll start saying some really dumb things.

I read every word he said for a couple years, and became dumber with every word. I can't remember one intelligent thing he said throughout the entire production of Fant4stic.

One can only hope that Kevin Feige shows Kinberg the door as soon as the ink is dry on the Fox acquisition. That man is a virus. He can't be allowed to infect Marvel Studios with his mediocrity.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

One can only hope that Kevin Feige shows Kinberg the door as soon as the ink is dry on the Fox acquisition. That man is a virus. He can't be allowed to infect Marvel Studios with his mediocrity.

I was amazed that he kept his job at Fox after Fant4stic. And not only kept his job, but they gave him Dark Phoenix.

He must have pictures of Rupert Murdoch in bed with a duck or something.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I agree that releasing Dark Phoenix and New Mutants theatrically will just hurt the brand. No need for that. Throw em on a streaming service and start fresh with the MCU X-Men. Let that old franchise die quietly. This is an unprecedented situation, and I can totally see this happening, as unorthodox as it would be.

 

[Dark Raven]

One can only hope that Kevin Feige shows Kinberg the door as soon as the ink is dry on the Fox acquisition. That man is a virus. He can't be allowed to infect Marvel Studios with his mediocrity.

Hopefully just like this as Kinberg is trying to tell Feige his ideas:

 

[Dark Raven]

I was amazed that he kept his job at Fox after Fant4stic. And not only kept his job, but they gave him Dark Phoenix.

He must have pictures of Rupert Murdoch in bed with a duck or something.

Probably re-enacting his own version of Howard the Duck.

 

[Rorschach2012]

One can only hope that Kevin Feige shows Kinberg the door as soon as the ink is dry on the Fox acquisition. That man is a virus. He can't be allowed to infect Marvel Studios with his mediocrity.

Hopefully just like this as Kinberg is trying to tell Feige his ideas:

Bahaha t: I couldn't agree more!


Is anyone expecting anything at SDCC pertaining to the deal or is that too soon?

 

[Dark Raven]

I agree that releasing Dark Phoenix and New Mutants theatrically will just hurt the brand. No need for that. Throw em on a streaming service and start fresh with the MCU X-Men. Let that old franchise die quietly. This is an unprecedented situation, and I can totally see this happening, as unorthodox as it would be.

Here are a couple of articles about that Chinese film "Asura" that I mentioned earlier, which was pulled from theatres after a disastrous opening weekend.

https://www.scmp.com/business/china...nas-most-expensive-film-asura-pull-it-cinemas

https://www.theguardian.com/film/20...inese-film-pulled-from-cinemas-after-it-bombs

As you can see, this was a very big budget, effects-driven film but was still pulled. It was obviously very bad business for the producers of this movie.

A similar thing could happen for Dark Phoenix. And that is worse having it out then and then being pulled instead of being shelved beforehand.

As that slogan of the Poo Pourri commercial says above, "it's our business to make it look like your business never happened."

And that's what it should be with Dark Phoenix. It should look like that turd never happened.