The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

[Darkprime]

That must be a mistake. Surely they mean 10 am EST.

Let's suppose some people showing up to the meeting have to commute. Are they going to be getting up at 4 am or earlier if it is at 5 am EST (which would be 10 am GMT)?

Maybe it's so early so that no-one will be in any state of mind to question anything or argue. They'll all want to get back to bed.

I checked the article again just says 10am now. Maybe i imagined the GMT bit oh well.

https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/disney-fox-shareholder-voting-date-1202861184/

 

[Dark Raven]

This kind of news needs to hit either just before the US markets open, or after trading hours, I think. That, and it is a signal to Europe that they plan to continue quest for SKY, by doing it during their trading hours. Drives up the price on Comquack, if nothing else.

Well I suppose that would be a good reason.

But then, when both Murdoch and Iger said they wouldn't be attending, and Iger said that he'd be travelling on vacation then, they probably meant they'd still be in bed and they weren't getting up for this.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The ROI on SPE is pathetic. Something like 3% lol. The profit margin for all other subsidiaries is significantly higher. SPE is always being brought up by the TV side btw, hence the major interest in Endemol. Sony should double down on TV and maybe Crackle (as they are trying to find an investor to fix that mess) and divest of Tristar, Columbia, and SPA (though they could keep the latter and find a distributor, SPA is bank). They have some franchises at SPE, they just don't know what to do with them. They should give shareholders a good return for their money, SPE - and especially movies - is failing badly. On the flipside they can double down and try to acquire MGM and Lionsgate, though that could bite them in the ass hard. They tried that before and led a consortium that acquired MGM for 5B back in the early 2000s. That didn't work out and it was one of the many things that drove Sony to like a 20 or 30B market valuation.


I'm long SNE ADR as well and have wanted them to divest Pictures even before I cared about the MCU (which only happened in 2015 before CW).

Isn't the new boss of Sony though seemingly etched in keeping the movie division, unlike the guy he took over for? I feel like this is something I have read in many articles before.

 

[Dark Raven]

I checked the article again just says 10am now. Maybe i imagined the GMT bit oh well.

https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/disney-fox-shareholder-voting-date-1202861184/

10 am at the New York Hilton. So that probably will be 10 am EST.

So that will be 3 pm GMT for all those in the UK.

 

[Darkprime]

A lot of Sonys proffit comes from playstation now doesnt it. The new spiderman game is coming in september which will make bank.

 

[ADollarADay]

Isn't the new boss of Sony though seemingly etched in keeping the movie division, unlike the guy he took over for? I feel like this is something I have read in many articles before.

What you read is probably when he said Sony needs IPs and be an IP driven company. Content is key, I believe he said. Yoshida is a number guy though unlike Hirai. Hirai game from the game division and was very passionate about entertainment to the detriment of the company. He did a tremendous job turning that sinking boat around, but could have done more by divesting of Columbia pictures. Yoshida is keen on IP driven content and that would include something like MasterChef and Big Brother hence the interest in Endemol. They like SPE and SM, but they need better return on capital than SM can provide. It's also a risk franchise if Marvel/Disney steps out of the deal because of the high capital involved to create the movies and they make no money on the merchandise.

I'm not saying they are gonna do it, but it wouldn't surprise me. Especially if they get more IP/content in exchange for it that they can monetize. Movie division sucks and the TV division is the shining start of that failing subsidiary.

 

[MasterCat]

The ROI on SPE is pathetic. Something like 3% lol. The profit margin for all other subsidiaries is significantly higher. SPE is always being brought up by the TV side btw, hence the major interest in Endemol. Sony should double down on TV and maybe Crackle (as they are trying to find an investor to fix that mess) and divest of Tristar, Columbia, and SPA (though they could keep the latter and find a distributor, SPA is bank). They have some franchises at SPE, they just don't know what to do with them.

Sony knows how to do video games, like WB and unlike Disney. If video game adaptations ever became a thing, they'd be kicking themselves for divesting all three studios.
I wonder how much Tristar and Columbia together would be worth to a content-eater company.

 

[Darkprime]

Could sony keep the spiderman game rights and sell the movie rights? Sony is crushing it in the game world.

 

[Big Bang]

The ROI on SPE is pathetic. Something like 3% lol. The profit margin for all other subsidiaries is significantly higher. SPE is always being brought up by the TV side btw, hence the major interest in Endemol. Sony should double down on TV and maybe Crackle (as they are trying to find an investor to fix that mess) and divest of Tristar, Columbia, and SPA (though they could keep the latter and find a distributor, SPA is bank). They have some franchises at SPE, they just don't know what to do with them. They should give shareholders a good return for their money, SPE - and especially movies - is failing badly. On the flipside they can double down and try to acquire MGM and Lionsgate, though that could bite them in the ass hard. They tried that before and led a consortium that acquired MGM for 5B back in the early 2000s. That didn't work out and it was one of the many things that drove Sony to like a 20 or 30B market valuation.

Makes perfect sense when you put it that way. Endemel Shine also plays to a much stronger market for Sony as well. They've always been relatively popular in Europe.

What I always found batty was their lack of investment in Crackle. They seem to spin up new services all the time, but never take the time to build up and invest in any of them.

Yeah but would a post Fox acquisition Disney want such a deal? A deal where they pay Sony a % of the BO gross of the movies Feige and friends produce? I think they will want to simplify this damn thing or wish Sony good luck. Especially now that they will double their sandbox and make the X-Men and FF relevant again. X-Men was actually on par if not bigger than SM back in the 90s.

Especially when Disney can put releases all around anything Sony puts out, and effectively bury them. Disney is really going to be in a position to play real hardball once the deal closes.

Isn't the new boss of Sony though seemingly etched in keeping the movie division, unlike the guy he took over for? I feel like this is something I have read in many articles before.

I think it might be the other way around. I know Kaz really wanted to hang onto SPE.

A lot of Sonys proffit comes from playstation now doesnt it. The new spiderman game is coming in september which will make bank.

Therein lies ample danger for Sony. The next cycle is very much looking to be cloud centric, and that is a product Sony is practically nonexistent in. Their services are all cloud consumers, not producers, and that will eventually drive their costs way, way up. This is one area were Microsoft could crush them with ease.

 

[ADollarADay]

Sony knows how to do video games, like WB and unlike Disney. If video game adaptations ever became a thing, they'd be kicking themselves for divesting all three studios.
I wonder how much Tristar and Columbia together would be worth to a content-eater company.

Even the best story driven games like RDR, TLOU, and Bioshock would be tough to do on cinema. The last act of RDR worked because it was you walking out of that door. The last act on TLOU worked because it was a game. Bioshock worked because you freaked out when you were fighting a Big Daddy. An Uncharted movie would be even more of a rip off of Indiana Jones than it already is and be seen as such. TLOU would actually work better as a spin off TV series in the vein of TWD if they were ever gonna do it.

There's a reason VG movies usually suck. Not saying they can never work, but it's deeper than saying "it worked for comics, it could work for game franchises". Even comics is not that easy, only Marvel and the intermittent DC movie has really gotten it right.

 

[Darkprime]

Yea i think the bioshock movie was supposed to be directed by gore verbinski is stuck in dev hell.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Could sony keep the spiderman game rights and sell the movie rights? Sony is crushing it in the game world.

Does anyone know how long the video game deal lasts for?

 

[ADollarADay]

Makes perfect sense when you put it that way. Endemel Shine also plays to a much stronger market for Sony as well. They've always been relatively popular in Europe.

What I always found batty was their lack of investment in Crackle. They seem to spin up new services all the time, but never take the time to build up and invest in any of them.

Endemol also has a presence in LA where Sony is strong. I can see why they are interested.

They stopped Crackle's services in Canada and are looking for an investor to buy a percentage of the service and relaunch it. It could do well as they could go in with a big player like Comcast or ATT and make it a worthy competitor in the streaming realm.

Especially when Disney can put releases all around anything Sony puts out, and effectively bury them. Disney is really going to be in a position to play real hardball once the deal closes.

That's what people don't understand. "Sony should want to resign". Sure. But why would Disney want to? Especially post Fox acquisition? Disney had to pay tens of millions to Sony for Homecoming.

Could sony keep the spiderman game rights and sell the movie rights? Sony is crushing it in the game world.

Sony doesn't own any SM rights but the movie rights. The videogame rights are 100% with Marvel.

Does anyone know how long the video game deal lasts for?

1 game. And that was Marvel going to Insomniac. If Disney had a decent publishing house you'd be seeing that game on XBO and Steam as well. Maybe even the Switch.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Yea i think the bioshock movie was supposed to be directed by gore verbinski is stuck in dev hell.

Uncharted seems to be there too. And if the rumors of Tom Holland as a young Nathan Drake are accurate, the fan film starring Nathan Fillion and Stephen Lang will probably be the best we get anyways.

 

[Darkprime]

Uncharted seems to be there too. And if the rumors of Tom Holland as a young Nathan Drake are accurate, the fan film starring Nathan Fillion and Stephen Lang will probably be the best we get anyways.

i think uncharted wil happen when Sony sees the response to the fan film and Fillion will co star as the older Drake.

 

[Big Bang]

Endemol also has a presence in LA where Sony is strong. I can see why they are interested.

Makes even more sense.

They stopped Crackle's services in Canada and are looking for an investor to buy a percentage of the service and relaunch it. It could do well as they could go in with a big player like Comcast or ATT and make it a worthy competitor in the streaming realm.

I think that ship has sailed. ATT is already going in with Watch TV (dumb name) and Comcast has been really cozying up with Netflix lately. Comcast is even bundling Netflix in with their ISP service offerings.

That's what people don't understand. "Sony should want to resign". Sure. But why would Disney want to? Especially post Fox acquisition? Disney had to pay tens of millions to Sony for Homecoming.

It is that part of the deal being such a game changer that some people haven't realized yet.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

That's what people don't understand. "Sony should want to resign". Sure. But why would Disney want to? Especially post Fox acquisition? Disney had to pay tens of millions to Sony for Homecoming.

I could see it if the lousy Sony films were killing merchandise sales, but I never saw anything to indicate that was the case. Spider-Man seemed to be making a killing in merchandise even when the films were crap. And I don't think he adds that much to the Avengers films monetarily to justify it. He's not the big draw in either Civil War or Infinity War. I don't think there are that many people that saw those films because Spider-Man was in it that wouldn't have seen the films otherwise.

However, with a lot of the main Avengers being done shortly, I can see the argument of wanting Spider-Man around to help ease the transition to a new team. Not having RDJ's Iron Man around anymore is a big blow. On the other hand, Black Panther has in many ways become the new Iron Man in terms of popularity, so they might not need Spidey after all.

 

[Marvel united]

They need Spidey. He's the heart of the Marvel Universe. We get X-Men and F4 back, he has to be there. Sony will hopefully sign a new contract for him

 

[Bach]

So the acquisition of Fox could really kill 3 birds with one stone as far as Disney are concerned when it come to the Marvel rights:

1) Gain all of the Marvel Fox rights back
2) Use the 39% of Sky to get the Universal Marvel rights back
3) Use the 50% of Endemol to get the Sony Marvel rights back

If this is what ends up happening, saying that I'm impressed would fall very short. That level of planning could only be done by a genius. Like Doctor Doom level of genius.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They need Spidey. He's the heart of the Marvel Universe. We get X-Men and F4 back, he has to be there. Sony will hopefully sign a new contract for him

Do they? I think that's the fan in us talking. Do I want Spider-Man in the MCU? Absolutely. But I don't think Disney needs him.

I don't think they need the X-Men or Fantastic Four either. The MCU has been just fine without them. They need Marvel far more than Marvel needs them.

 

[Crimz]

Even the best story driven games like RDR, TLOU, and Bioshock would be tough to do on cinema. The last act of RDR worked because it was you walking out of that door. The last act on TLOU worked because it was a game. Bioshock worked because you freaked out when you were fighting a Big Daddy. An Uncharted movie would be even more of a rip off of Indiana Jones than it already is and be seen as such. TLOU would actually work better as a spin off TV series in the vein of TWD if they were ever gonna do it.

There's a reason VG movies usually suck. Not saying they can never work, but it's deeper than saying "it worked for comics, it could work for game franchises". Even comics is not that easy, only Marvel and the intermittent DC movie has really gotten it right.

A lot of us forget how much interactivity plays into how we experience stories in video games. Film adaptations of video games will always feel like there is something missing. Comics were much easier to adapt to films once the technology got to the point where it could create the more fantastical elements.
I think Hollywood will get anime/manga adaptations right before video games.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

A lot of us forget how much interactivity plays into how we experience stories in video games. Film adaptations of video games will always feel like there is something missing. Comics were much easier to adapt to films once the technology got to the point where it could create the more fantastical elements.

Not necessarily. There is a whole genre of visual novels out there with minimal gameplay. There have been several good anime adaptations of video games. It is specifically Hollywood that has failed making movies about them.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Marvel doesn’t need anything, but having these characters definitely makes life easier for them

 

[ADollarADay]

I think that ship has sailed. ATT is already going in with Watch TV (dumb name) and Comcast has been really cozying up with Netflix lately. Comcast is even bundling Netflix in with their ISP service offerings.

Yeah true, but a big player. Crackle could work, but they need the help because Sony has shown they can't do it by themselves.

It is that part of the deal being such a game changer that some people haven't realized yet.

Yep. I'm still questioning on why Disney post Fox would want to resign such a deal. They would either want major concessions from Sony or just simplify the thing and get all the rights outright.

They need Spidey. He's the heart of the Marvel Universe. We get X-Men and F4 back, he has to be there. Sony will hopefully sign a new contract for him

It's not just about Sony signing a new contract, it's also about Disney signing said contract. Tell me why Disney should renew the contract? Be logical about it, not just because Spider-man NEEDS to be in the MCU!

Do they? I think that's the fan in us talking. Do I want Spider-Man in the MCU? Absolutely. But I don't think Disney needs him.

I don't think they need the X-Men or Fantastic Four either. The MCU has been just fine without them. They need Marvel far more than Marvel needs them.

You said it more succinctly than I could have said, so I'm just quoting you.

 

[Marvel united]

Do they? I think that's the fan in us talking. Do I want Spider-Man in the MCU? Absolutely. But I don't think Disney needs him.

I don't think they need the X-Men or Fantastic Four either. The MCU has been just fine without them. They need Marvel far more than Marvel needs them.

Right but Spidey can take over from Robert Downey when he's done. He's his protege after all and he can become one of the faces of the MCU going forward. If Sony doesn't relinquish the contract - Fans will rain hellfire and brimstone down on them and the Spider-Man movie franchise will suffer. He needs the MCU and imo - the MCU needs him. Spider-Man was a huge void that was filled in 2016 and now the other 2 holes are about to be plugged w the X-Men and F4