The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 22

[Shinobi Shaw]

Marvel doesn’t need anything, but having these characters definitely makes life easier for them

They really don't if we're being real.

They took B-list heroes like The Avengers, Black Panther and the lot of them and made billion dollar pictures out of them all. We are living in a world where Thanos crushed the whole Justice League's box office in like 3 days.

X-Men and Fantastic 4 are just icing on a big ass, good ass, diabetically sweet Marvel cake.

 

[Marvel united]

Yeah true, but a big player. Crackle could work, but they need the help because Sony has shown they can't do it by themselves.



Yep. I'm still questioning on why Disney post Fox would want to resign such a deal. They would either want major concessions from Sony or just simplify the thing and get all the rights outright.



It's not just about Sony signing a new contract, it's also about Disney signing said contract. Tell me why Disney should renew the contract? Be logical about it, not just because Spider-man NEEDS to be in the MCU!



You said it more succinctly than I could have said, so I'm just quoting you.

Because Spider-Man is Marvel's flagwaver. He still sells the most merch out of any hero, last time it was all of the Avengers combined. The movies sucking and bombing could have negative effects on the Spidey brand as a whole. He has value to Disney. He belongs in the Marvel Universe

 

[HBarnill]

Marvel doesn’t need anything, but having these characters definitely makes life easier for them

*checks worldwide gross of films combined*

Their life is already easy.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Right but Spidey can take over from Robert Downey when he's done. He's his protege after all and he can become one of the faces of the MCU going forward. If Sony doesn't relinquish the contract - Fans will rain hellfire and brimstone down on them and the Spider-Man movie franchise will suffer. He needs the MCU and imo - the MCU needs him. Spider-Man was a huge void that was filled in 2016 and now the other 2 holes are about to be plugged w the X-Men and F4

I did mention the taking over from RDJ possibility. But I think the (unexpected?) success of Black Panther could make him a potential successor to RDJ. And aside from Disney controlling his rights outright, like Stark he's also a rich technology-based superhero, possibly making him a better fit for the role of replacement than Spider-Man (who is more of a street hero, which is a different niche within the genre).

 

[Darkprime]

Disney getting the xmen and f4 back is their way of investing and future proofing the MCUs longevity. It shows Disney has a lot of confidence in the brand. Which is good. Unlike with Star Wars with the potential spin off movies being dropped and that universe shrinking instead of expanding. The MCU could be bigger than Star Wars by the time the xmen and f4 arrive. It seems Disney are losing confidence in StarWars. The MCU might become Disneys leading brand in 5 years.

 

[Art Freak]

They are it’s leading brand, no?

 

[Art Freak]

Like by a lot.

 

[Marvel united]

I did mention the taking over from RDJ possibility. But I think the (unexpected?) success of Black Panther could make him a potential successor to RDJ. And aside from Disney controlling his rights outright, like Stark he's also a rich technology-based superhero, possibly making him a better fit for the role of replacement than Spider-Man (who is more of a street hero, which is a different niche within the genre).

He can still be a replacement for Cap or Thor if they retire those two. Spidey should be one of the figure heads of Marvel soon. Maybe it'll look like this- Spider-Man, Black Panther, X-Men, Fantastic Four and Captain Marvel

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Because Spider-Man is Marvel's flagwaver. He still sells the most merch out of any hero, last time it was all of the Avengers combined. The movies sucking and bombing could have negative effects on the Spidey brand as a whole. He has value to Disney. He belongs in the Marvel Universe

The evidence we have suggests that wasn't happening, but we don't have anything close to the numbers that Disney has. Absolutely if the ASM was harming the Spidey brand as a whole and negatively impacting the merchandise sales to a significant degree, then that could justify Disney re-upping the deal. In theory, it makes sense. Good movies = More Popular Character = More Toy Sales.

 

[Smurphftw]

10 am at the New York Hilton. So that probably will be 10 am EST.

So that will be 3 pm GMT for all those in the UK.

No it wouldn't be 10 am EST. It would be 10 am EDT or Eastern Daylight Time

Sorry this is a big pet peeve of mine. 8 months of the year the U.S. is in Daylight Savings Time just like now. Not Standard Time.

 

[Zarex]

He can still be a replacement for Cap or Thor if they retire those two. Spidey should be one of the figure heads of Marvel soon. Maybe it'll look like this- Spider-Man, Black Panther, X-Men, Fantastic Four and Captain Marvel

Spidey's role as a figurehead is compromised by the fact that a rival studio retains live action rights to the character. It's in Disney's best interest for T'Challa, Carol or maybe even a recast Logan to be positioned as the standard bearer. Unlike Peter, there is no threat of them going anywhere.

Assuming Feige reups next year, Disney will have as decision to make. Does Iger want his star producer and team spending valuable time on Sony Pictures films after dropping a crapload of popular characters on his lap? Will Sony play hardball if Venom is a hit? My best guess is that both sides will extend the deal for two films, the trilogy finale and an Avengers flick. At that point either Disney will buy the rights or Sony will take their Spidey ball and leave.

 

[Big Bang]

They took B-list heroes like The Avengers, Black Panther and the lot of them and made billion dollar pictures out of them all. We are living in a world where Thanos crushed the whole Justice League's box office in like 3 days.

X-Men and Fantastic 4 are just icing on a big ass, good ass, diabetically sweet Marvel cake.

Heck we are living in a world where a Thor film out grossed a Justice League film.

Because Spider-Man is Marvel's flagwaver. He still sells the most merch out of any hero, last time it was all of the Avengers combined. The movies sucking and bombing could have negative effects on the Spidey brand as a whole. He has value to Disney. He belongs in the Marvel Universe

He has value to Disney, but they can live without him. That is kind of the point. It defangs any attempt by Sony to try to bleed cash from Disney. Furthermore, even if Sony tried to put out their own Spideyfilms, Disney can pretty much bury their films. The game has completely changed now. The longer Sony bides their time, the weaker their position gets.

 

[Fallen]

Less than 12 hours left!

 

[ADollarADay]

Right but Spidey can take over from Robert Downey when he's done. He's his protege after all and he can become one of the faces of the MCU going forward. If Sony doesn't relinquish the contract - Fans will rain hellfire and brimstone down on them and the Spider-Man movie franchise will suffer. He needs the MCU and imo - the MCU needs him. Spider-Man was a huge void that was filled in 2016 and now the other 2 holes are about to be plugged w the X-Men and F4

Spider-man needs the MCU. The MCU doesn't need Spider-man or its rogue gallery. Especially post Fox acquisition.

Disney getting the xmen and f4 back is their way of investing and future proofing the MCUs longevity. It shows Disney has a lot of confidence in the brand. Which is good. Unlike with Star Wars with the potential spin off movies being dropped and that universe shrinking instead of expanding. The MCU could be bigger than Star Wars by the time the xmen and f4 arrive. It seems Disney are losing confidence in StarWars. The MCU might become Disneys leading brand in 5 years.

SW is a whole different conversation that we don't need to get into. First order of business should be replacing KK. Second is listening to the fans instead of trying to argue with them. Kinda like what Feige does.

 

[Darkprime]

Hes been in the MCU for 2 and half years now. People associate him with the MCU. I dont think spidey could survive being pulled from the MCU suddenly and thrown into the venom verse. For all intense and purposes Tom Holland is the MCU spidey. Now i could see Sony altering the deal with Marvel and say look we need a spiderman well let you keep Tom but well cast our own. But ether way we are going to have spiderman in the venomnverse. Could the audience accept two spidermans? Maybe. Sony would have to make it clear theres is seperate from the MCU. They are testing the waters with Miles Morales with into the spiderverse. Wonder if Disney would let Sony have its own spiderman in the form of Miles.

 

[Big Bang]

SW is a whole different conversation that we don't need to get into. First order of business should be replacing KK. Second is listening to the fans instead of trying to argue with them. Kinda like what Feige does.

Side note: Isn't it rather interesting, that after all the rumors of KK being fired, the first project to be announced is the renewal of the most popular project that was cancelled when she began to assert her control? Front and center in the midst of it all: Dave Filoni.

 

[ADollarADay]

Hes been in the MCU for 2 and half years now. People associate him with the MCU. I dont think spidey could survive being pulled from the MCU suddenly and thrown into the venom verse. For all intense and purposes Tom Holland is the MCU spidey. Now i could see Sony altering the deal with Marvel and say look we need a spiderman well let you keep Tom but well cast our own. But ether way we are going to have spiderman in the venomnverse. Could the audience accept two spidermans? Maybe. Sony would have to make it clear theres is seperate from the MCU. They are testing the waters with Miles Morales with into the spiderverse. Wonder if Disney would let Sony have its own spiderman in the form of Miles.

You are right. Sony is in a bind regarding Spidey.

Disney is not gonna accept what you suggested either. I wouldn't. As BigBang said, Disney can really play hardball with Sony on this. IMO it really depends on how much Disney really wants it and if Sony will be reasonable about it.

Side note: Isn't it rather interesting, that after all the rumors of KK being fired, the first project to be announced is the renewal of the most popular project that was cancelled when she began to assert her control? Front and center in the midst of it all: Dave Filoni.

And - unsurprisingly - fan reaction was outstanding.

 

[Detective Conan]

Hes been in the MCU for 2 and half years now. People associate him with the MCU .

Spider-Man can absolutely survive without the MCU imo but him being in the MCU is nice to have and presents a lot of nice and unique storytelling possibilities with the character that wouldn’t have been possible had Sony never made a deal and kept Spider-Man seperate.

 

[Darkprime]

Spider-Man can absolutely survive without the MCU imo but him being in the MCU is nice to have and presents a lot of nice and unique storytelling possibilities with the character that wouldn’t have been possible had Sony never made a deal and kept Spider-Man seperate.

Maybe a seperate spiderman from Tom. But if Tom was pulled from the MCU his spidey would fade away. You really think the core MCU fans would follow after what Sony did with AMS2? The whole reason the deal happened is Spidey was in decline with AMS2.

Sony was lost. If they pull him from the MCU the same will happen again and then Sony will try crawling back to Feige for help who will be like nope sorry cant trust you guys anymore and besides we got f4 and xmen now.

 

[Marvel united]

Spider-Man can absolutely survive without the MCU imo but him being in the MCU is nice to have and presents a lot of nice and unique storytelling possibilities with the character that wouldn’t have been possible had Sony never made a deal and kept Spider-Man seperate.

Spider-Man's box office receipts were shrinking before the deal happened. TASM2 was not only the first rotten Spider-Man film (worse than SM3) but adjusted for inflation, it was the lowest grossing Spider-Man film ever. Sony was in full panick mode post-TASM2 and then the North Korea back happened and it crippled Sony. Spider-Man would NOT survive being pulled out of the MCU and forced into the Venomverse. It'll only take a couple of years before Arad ruins the the character once again and by that point, Sony may have no choice but to sell to Disney considering they have zero successful franchises outside of Jumanji

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I still can't believe Sony took a movie with The Rock and Kevin Hart and had the nerve to call it 'Jumanji' and the GA ate it up. But i digress.

Spidey needs the MCU.

 

[Detective Conan]

Spidey's role as a figurehead is compromised by the fact that a rival studio retains live action rights to the character. It's in Disney's best interest for T'Challa, Carol or maybe even a recast Logan to be positioned as the standard bearer. Unlike Peter, there is no threat of them going anywhere.

Assuming Feige reups next year, Disney will have as decision to make. Does Iger want his star producer and team spending valuable time on Sony Pictures films after dropping a crapload of popular characters on his lap? Will Sony play hardball if Venom is a hit? My best guess is that both sides will extend the deal for two films, the trilogy finale and an Avengers flick. At that point either Disney will buy the rights or Sony will take their Spidey ball and leave.

I argue Sony kind of has the disadvantage here that will hurt them in the long run. Venom doesn’t look any good and will likely underpreform if not outright flop and their rumored spinoff ideas just sound so laughably awful( a Morbius film really?) there’s almost no way they can build a sustainable cinematic universe on their own. It’s all pretty much destined to crash and burn and Sony’s film division will likely be sold off pretty soon. I even wonder if the whole film division would be disbanded since really at best there’s not much value in Sony as a film company. They only really have Spider-Man(which they’ll benefit from the maximum profit gains with the IP since they don’t have the merchandise) and Jumanji.

It’s why it boggles my mind why some here speculate Comcast might snatch up Sony next after failing to get Fox. Why? Why would Sony’s film division (which is probably one of the least valuable ones out there) spur Comcast’s interest. Comcast would likely have zero interest in Sony and would dismiss them as a “third-rate Fox.”

 

[Darkprime]

Im currious where did the whole spidey deal ending after far from home actually come from? The original press release in 2015 makes no mention of it.(which also seems to have been removed from marvel.com) Is it because of Toms contract? I would think the spidey/sony/deal is seperate from Toms contract. Toms 5 picture deal is specifically for his spider-man. I dont think its how many times Spider-Man can actually appear in the MCU.

 

[Fallen]

Spider-Man's box office receipts were shrinking before the deal happened. TASM2 was not only the first rotten Spider-Man film (worse than SM3) but adjusted for inflation, it was the lowest grossing Spider-Man film ever. Sony was in full panick mode post-TASM2 and then the North Korea back happened and it crippled Sony. Spider-Man would NOT survive being pulled out of the MCU and forced into the Venomverse. It'll only take a couple of years before Arad ruins the the character once again and by that point, Sony may have no choice but to sell to Disney considering they have zero successful franchises outside of Jumanji

Remember when they were gonna make Aunt May, Sinister Six and Silver & Black movies?

 

[MasterCat]

Sony selling their film division to Disney after making Jumanji a successful Star Wars rival would be so surreal.