The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Spider-Fan]

Well for one, calling her Phoenix may confuse people even more than calling her "Marvel" Girl. Because in her very last film appearance, she was the Phoenix and she was a villain. So when you call her that name, people have a certain expectation set in place for what it means. That's why you don't randomly call Spider-Man - "Black suit/Symbiote Spider-Man" because that name/title already has strong connotations associated with what it represents and rightfully so.

Also, they may not want to do Phoenix for a very long time. But that doesn't mean Feige will want to completely close the door on the possibility from ever doing it again. By prematurely using Phoenix force Jean name to avoid calling her classic name.

I don't think the audience would jump to these conclusions. General movie goers tend to just accept whatever is presented to them, so just call her Phoenix and give a reason for it in her backstory, and audiences will just go with it. We, fanboys, make a bigger deal out of these things.

 

[Dark Raven]

So nothing of any note about the Disney Fox deal at the end of that shareholders' meeting? Did Iger only show clips? No news at all?

 

[ADollarADay]

So nothing of any note about the Disney Fox deal at the end of that shareholders' meeting? Did Iger only show clips? No news at all?

Biggest news was SW GE's opening dates and small, vague updates on 3 new DCL ships.

 

[Spider-Fan]

On the topic that Jean calling herself the Phoenix kills the chances of it ever being adapted later. No it does not. Jean can still get possessed by an alien force, and maybe it adopts the name Phoenix once it joins with Jean. Maybe its true name has no human translation, so it takes that name. There are options.

 

[Marvel united]

I don't think the audience would jump to these conclusions. General movie goers tend to just accept whatever is presented to them, so just call her Phoenix and give a reason for it in her backstory, and audiences will just go with it. We, fanboys, make a bigger deal out of these things.

Well, couldn't the same reasoning be applied to "Marvel Girl"? Most people like you said will not jump to conclusions. Everybody won't automatically assume that she's somehow related to Carol, because she's a completely different character.

Charles comes up with the name "Marvel Girl" for her because he knows her powers will amaze people and they will marvel at her gifts.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Well, couldn't the same reasoning be applied to "Marvel Girl"? Most people like you said will not jump to conclusions. Everybody won't automatically assume that she's somehow related to Carol, because she's a completely different character.

Charles comes up with the name "Marvel Girl" for her because he knows her powers will amaze people and they will marvel at her gifts.

I think if we keep using the name "Marvel" too much, it will start getting confusing for people. Remember, we're experts in comics culture and can memorize thousands of characters and their alternate versions. The general public has a hard time keeping up with who is Marvel or DC. I can't tell you how many times my fiance has asked me when a Marvel Character will be on Arrow or vice versa. So, if too many characters have the name "Marvel" then you risk confusing people. Words like "Woman" or "Man" won't confuse people. No one will confuse Spider-Man vs Iceman. Marvel is a more specific word.

 

[Zarex]

I mean, let's make up names for Iceman as well since several MCU heroes already have "Man" in their name. Maybe the Refrigera-tor? Deep chill? Argh, if only all of these characters co-existed with each other in the comics.

A smidge bit more work and you'll get there! I would go with Refriger-Hater, but that's strictly for a villain. Maybe Deep Chill Bill as sort of a homage to Paste Pot Pete?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think if we keep using the name "Marvel" too much, it will start getting confusing for people. Remember, we're experts in comics culture and can memorize thousands of characters and their alternate versions. The general public has a hard time keeping up with who is Marvel or DC. I can't tell you how many times my fiance has asked me when a Marvel Character will be on Arrow or vice versa. So, if too many characters have the name "Marvel" then you risk confusing people. Words like "Woman" or "Man" won't confuse people. No one will confuse Spider-Man vs Iceman. Marvel is a more specific word.

I've had to explain multiple times that no, Green Arrow is not the guy with a bow in the Avengers.

 

[Marvel united]

I think if we keep using the name "Marvel" too much, it will start getting confusing for people. Remember, we're experts in comics culture and can memorize thousands of characters and their alternate versions. The general public has a hard time keeping up with who is Marvel or DC. I can't tell you how many times my fiance has asked me when a Marvel Character will be on Arrow or vice versa. So, if too many characters have the name "Marvel" then you risk confusing people. Words like "Woman" or "Man" won't confuse people. No one will confuse Spider-Man vs Iceman. Marvel is a more specific word.

I don't think these two points of contention overlap, though. Jean will be a character within the MCU. All they have to do is establish her as a different character from Carol and nobody will be confused or think she's related. She won't be interacting with Carol in her first movie, nobody will be talking about her outside of possibly a mention of the Avengers.

But most importantly, there will be only 3 characters with Marvel in their name. One is not associated with the other two. I seriously doubt Marvel will care that much or be worrying about. Otherwise we can't have "Scott" Summers either because there is already a "Scott" Lang in the MCU and Scott is a more specific word than "Man" too. We also can't have "Hank" McCoy since we already have a "Hank" Pym. You go down this rabbit hole of there's no going back

 

[Spider-Fan]

I don't think these two points of contention overlap, though. Jean will be a character within the MCU. All they have to do is establish her as a different character from Carol and nobody will be confused or think she's related. She won't be interacting with Carol in her first movie, nobody will be talking about her outside of possibly a mention of the Avengers.

But most importantly, there will be only 3 characters with Marvel in their name. One is not associated with the other two. I seriously doubt Marvel will care that much or be worrying about. Otherwise we can't have "Scott" Summers either because there is already a "Scott" Lang in the MCU and Scott is a more specific word than "Man" too. We also can't have "Hank" McCoy since we already have a "Hank" Pym. You go down this rabbit hole of there's no going back

Real names are not the same thing. You're comparing apples to oranges. People know them by their superhero name mainly. No one will confuse Scott Lang with Scott Summers because they know them as Ant-Man and Cyclops. That's the name on all the action figures and merchandise when they go shopping. Now, if Scott Summer was a character named Ant-Farm, you bet they would mix them up.

 

[Marvel united]

Real names are not the same thing. You're comparing apples to oranges. People know them by their superhero name mainly. No one will confuse Scott Lang with Scott Summers because they know them as Ant-Man and Cyclops. That's the name on all the action figures and merchandise when they go shopping. Now, if Scott Summer was a character named Ant-Farm, you bet they would mix them up.

But isn't "Ant" a more specific word than "Marvel"? One refers to an actual animal/organism and the other is a verb used to describe something that amazes people. If anything, in terminology -- it's wayyy more comparable to "Man" than It is comparable to "Ant". There's less overlap when the word in question is used to describe a wide variety of things in the English vocabulary. "Marvel" is not a specific place or thing, it's an expression.

And when people see the toy/merchandise for Jean, they aren't going to get confused and think she's Carol or related to her. Completely different powers, completely different costumes, completely different franchises. I'm sure the promotional material for the movie will communicate this well enough so people aren't calling Jean - 'Captain Marvel' when they leave the theater for an X-Men movie. If anything, it would do them good to have Jean's codename further illustrate to people that this is MARVEL'S X-Men

 

[Spider-Fan]

But isn't "Ant" a more specific word than "Marvel"? One refers to an actual animal/organism and the other is a verb used to describe something that amazes people. If anything, in terminology -- it's wayyy more comparable to "Man" than It is comparable to "Ant". There's less overlap when the word in question is used to describe a wide variety of things in the English vocabulary. "Marvel" is not a specific place or thing, it's an expression.

And when people see the toy/merchandise for Jean, they aren't going to get confused and think she's Carol or related to her. Completely different powers, completely different costumes, completely different franchises. I'm sure the promotional material for the movie will communicate this well enough so people aren't calling Jean - 'Captain Marvel' when they leave the theater for an X-Men movie

Marvel and ant are just as specific. They're not broad terms like "man" or "woman" or "boy" or "girl". I'm sorry amigo, but I just see this as mental gymnastics coming from a place of fandom more so than logic because you want to see the X-Men a certain way. Which I get on some level. But you're points really just don't add up.

 

[Dark Raven]

But isn't "Ant" a more specific word than "Marvel"? One refers to an actual animal/organism and the other is a verb used to describe something that amazes people. If anything, in terminology -- it's wayyy more comparable to "Man" than It is comparable to "Ant". There's less overlap when the word in question is used to describe a wide variety of things in the English vocabulary. "Marvel" is not a specific place or thing, it's an expression.

And when people see the toy/merchandise for Jean, they aren't going to get confused and think she's Carol or related to her. Completely different powers, completely different costumes, completely different franchises. I'm sure the promotional material for the movie will communicate this well enough so people aren't calling Jean - 'Captain Marvel' when they leave the theater for an X-Men movie. If anything, it would do them good to have Jean's codename further illustrate to people that this is MARVEL'S X-Men

Well it's not quite like "man" but more similar to Captain America and Captain Marvel.

They should just call Jean Grey "Fifty Shades".

 

[Detective Conan]

Marvel Girl is just a dumb and uncreative superhero name. I love Stan and Jack but man what extremely lazy naming on their part.

 

[Marvel united]

Marvel and ant are just as specific. They're not broad terms like "man" or "woman" or "boy" or "girl". I'm sorry amigo, but I just see this as mental gymnastics coming from a place of fandom more so than logic because you want to see the X-Men a certain way. Which I get on some level. But you're points really just don't add up.

Not according to correct grammatical terminology. "Ant' is a noun - it refers to an object/thing in mention i.e an actual animal. "Man", "Boy" and "Woman" are also nouns and refer to an actual existant. "Marvel" on the other hand, is a verb -- an expression used to describe a state of impression. It actually is a broadly defined term used to describe a wide variety of things. "Ant" is in the same grammatical category as "Man". It's the opposite

 

[Spider-Fan]

Not according to correct grammatical terminology. "Ant' is a noun - it refers to an object/thing in mention i.e an actual animal. "Man", "Boy" and "Woman" are also nouns and refer to an actual existant. "Marvel" on the other hand, is an expression used to describe a state of impression. It actually is a broadly defined term used to describe a wide variety of things. "Ant" is in the same grammatical category as "Man". It's the opposite

Again, this is becoming an exercise in mental gymnastics, and I just ain't doing it amigo. I've made my point, I think my point is very clear. I also think you understand my point as well.

 

[Darkprime]

The long-anticipated, $71.3 billion acquisition of most of 21st Century Fox will close “soon,” per Iger. Reports today have indicated that regulators in Mexico will vote Monday on the deal, which is understood to be the final obstacle to its completion. After spending most of 2018 planning for the combination of the operations, Iger said, “We’ll hit the ground running as soon as the deal closes.”

Disney Shareholders Approve Executive Pay And Hear New Details On Streaming Details, Fox Acquisition, Film Slate

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Disney Shareholders Approve Executive Pay And Hear New Details On Streaming Details, Fox Acquisition, Film Slate

That seems to be further confirmation that it all hangs on the Mexico vote Monday.

After that vote, if it goes the way it's expected, it should just be dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's.

 

[Marvel united]

Again, this is becoming an exercise in mental gymnastics, and I just ain't doing it amigo. I've made my point, I think my point is very clear. I also think you understand my point as well.

Yes but I think the concern is unwarranted. If anything, her being called Phoenix has more chance to overlap with the Fox movies (Than Marvel Girl overlapping with Captain Marvel) because they've relied on the Dark Phoenix so much as a crutch that people automatically assume Phoenix is refers to a rouge Jean. And just as you said they can explain it in the movie as not to draw confusion, they can do the same for Marvel Girl. And it would be much easier to do the latter with the added benefit of covering new ground with Jean that's never been covered before

 

[Spider-Fan]

I honestly don't think the Marvel Girl name is like this huge beacon of unexplored territory/characters struggle. It's a name. At most, it's a slightly new blip about her we never saw in other movies. But it is not something that is going to provide more than that. So I don't see it as this massive gain or something. But that's just me.

But that's all I have to say on this matter.

 

[WeaponXCII]

An hour and a half for “Soon”? An hour and a half?!?!?!

For all the questions people had- some even about the deal- not one person could ask about a closing date?

Does anyone know Bob Iger’s phone number? I’m just about ready to ask him personally since no one else wants to. In the words of Thanos, “Fine. I’ll do it myself.”

 

[Darkprime]

Interesting to point out that Disney revealed some avatar 2 footage at the shareholder meeting they must be pretty confident they'll get final approval next week. If theyre acting like they own avatar 2 already.

 

[Dark Raven]

Who cares about Avatar? The question on everyone's minds is about X-Men and Fantastic Four. Why did Iger show that? And does this mean that Cameron has been developing Avatar 2 for Disney all this time instead of conducting business as usual under Fox?

That shareholders' meeting was worse than last year. Not only was it longer, but we didn't even get to hear half the stuff while he showed all these clips. Last year's was only about 10 minutes.

 

[Marvel united]

@Spider-Fan It puts a fresh branding on the character that immediately separates MCU Jean from the Fox films Jean right out of the gate. The simple fact that "Marvel Girl" has never been used is reason enough but it also signals to the market and to the audience that this is MARVEL'S Jean Grey and considering Jean is one of figure heads of the X-Men franchise, that will in fact go a very long way in differentiation from what Singer did. Just the word "Marvel" conveys a sense of fantastical and-and comic book perspicacity that the Fox films never had.


I mean, I'd rather her be called Phoenix than just be called "Jean" again but I think Marvel Girl is the much more natural, much more fitting fit for her debut in the MCU. And Phoenix carries too much weight and baggage from the connotations that are closely associated within that name. It means a very specific thing in the context of the X-Men mythos.


I guess we can just agree to disagree

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think a simple costume change, marketing campaign, and action figure can make people aware this is "Marvel's" Jean Grey without using the Marvel Girl name. I don't think the name "Marvel Girl" is so amazing that it will blow people's minds.

But again, that's just me.