The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[kguillou]

Random question: as far as we know, is Fox allowed to intersect the F4 with the X-Men? I feel like we've gotten mixed signals with that.

 

[Dasher10]

At least Warner were cool enough to fire Roven and demote Snyder. Fox really need to look into giving Mark Millar Simon Kinberg's position as the man in charge of the X-Men. David Hayter should be the new screenwriter for the X-Men. Singer needs to stay on as a producer but the films need a new director with a new vision.

If Deadpool did as well as it did, it means that people still care about the franchise. XMA not doing as well just proves that Fox really need to change things up a bit and find a new director who makes the same characters seem exciting again.

 

[Zarex]

Random question: as far as we know, is Fox allowed to intersect the F4 with the X-Men? I feel like we've gotten mixed signals with that.

I strongly doubt FOX would be able to merge two separate cinematic rights agreements without the Mouse's approval. And while others with inside knowledge have commented on FOX not being able to do so, the strongest evidence is that if they could, they would have done so already.

 

[ernesth100]

The F4 iant good enough to meet the XMen yet. Two completely different tones.

 

[marieylee]

I strongly doubt FOX would be able to merge two separate cinematic rights agreements without the Mouse's approval. And while others with inside knowledge have commented on FOX not being able to do so, the strongest evidence is that if they could, they would have done so already.

Since Deadpool is a separate rights from X-Men, how were they able to use X-Men characters like Colossus and Negasonic in Deadpool? I would understand if it was like Cable, Domino, Wolverine, etc, characters that have a history with him, but those 2 don't. In fact, Deadpool has never really been an X-Man, and only recently in 2010's Uncanny X-Force run been in an X-related team.

 

[Dasher10]

Random question: as far as we know, is Fox allowed to intersect the F4 with the X-Men? I feel like we've gotten mixed signals with that.

They aren't. They were going to but then realized that they couldn't legally do it. That just makes Fox's desire to hold on to the property that much more pathetic since they won't get around to doing anything with the FF until they near the deadline again.

 

[Spiderine]

FOX is in a predicament. They have one franchise that is growing stale and another that never gained any traction to begin with. They struck oil with Deadpool. But if they want to milk that series Deadpool needs to be the same guy we saw in that movie. No toning him down to make him fit in with other Xfilms. He needs to remain rated R.

And honestly.......how excited would anyone be to see FF in an Xfilm anyways? If they ever cross with anybody it should be the MCU. New cast by the way. No one will give a crap about Reed showing up at the X Mansion.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Since Deadpool is a separate rights from X-Men, how were they able to use X-Men characters like Colossus and Negasonic in Deadpool? I would understand if it was like Cable, Domino, Wolverine, etc, characters that have a history with him, but those 2 don't. In fact, Deadpool has never really been an X-Man, and only recently in 2010's Uncanny X-Force run been in an X-related team.

Because when Fox aquired the Deadpool rights, they agreed with Marvel to write him in as part of the X-Men package. I read something in which that was very clearly explained by a studio rep.

As for why we've recieved 'mixed' infirmation on crossovers, that's because people like Simon Kinberg want to do crossovers even though the can't without Marvel's permission. Kinberg has spoken about it hypothetically, but there's zerovevidence Fox currently has the legal right and extensive evidence to the contrary.

It's not complicated if you look past the misdirection.

 

[Spiderine]

The Deadpool situation happened before the Disney takeover. Marvel was playing ball with the other studios back then. It wasn't until the 2012 Avengers massive success that the other studios eyes bulged with eagerness to cross pollinate franchises.

 

[Dark Raven]

Kinberg can't hold true to his statement of wanting to make a faithful FF movie and crossover with X-Men as well. A faithful FF has them as celebrities who are loved and not feared like mutants. So he can't have both. If he wants a crossover then he needs to keep FF the same, but if he does that no-one will want to see this crappy FFINO.

And it's not like they can do one anyway.

 

[Dasher10]

Since Deadpool is a separate rights from X-Men, how were they able to use X-Men characters like Colossus and Negasonic in Deadpool? I would understand if it was like Cable, Domino, Wolverine, etc, characters that have a history with him, but those 2 don't. In fact, Deadpool has never really been an X-Man, and only recently in 2010's Uncanny X-Force run been in an X-related team.

Deadpool is part of the X-Men rights. He debuted in New Mutants. Nearly all of his early appearances were in X-Men titles.

 

[Orba]

Deadpool is part of the X-Men rights. He debuted in New Mutants. Nearly all of his early appearances were in X-Men titles.

Fox didn't get him as part of the X-Men rights, they did not get him until years after they got the X-Men rights. If I remember Fox got him around 2006, after New Line shelved their plans to make a Deadpool film.

 

[Zarex]

Since Deadpool is a separate rights from X-Men, how were they able to use X-Men characters like Colossus and Negasonic in Deadpool? I would understand if it was like Cable, Domino, Wolverine, etc, characters that have a history with him, but those 2 don't. In fact, Deadpool has never really been an X-Man, and only recently in 2010's Uncanny X-Force run been in an X-related team.

The simple answer is that Marvel allowed it. When FOX acquired the Pool rights back in 2005, Marvel signed off on his integration within the X-Men cinematic universe. Though I'm certain they immediately regretted that decision after his XMO:W debut.

Like the Hulk, his rights are a bit more complicated than many other characters. According to one source, the terms of Ward's contract are much more favorable to Marvel than X-Men proper.

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...-is-deadpool-part-of-foxs-x-men-movie-rights/

https://www.thestreet.com/story/134...dpool-is-paying-dividends-for-disney-too.html

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Kinberg can't hold true to his statement of wanting to make a faithful FF movie and crossover with X-Men as well. A faithful FF has them as celebrities who are loved and not feared like mutants. So he can't have both. If he wants a crossover then he needs to keep FF the same, but if he does that no-one will want to see this crappy FFINO.

And it's not like they can do one anyway.

Did he ever said he wanted a "faithful" FF? I saw him say he learned some stuff and the tone would be different, but I don't remember him saying anything about faithful (it would be pretty much impossible to make a faithful film based on Fant4stic). I sort of think he believes the first film was pretty damn close and with a couple jokes thrown in next time, they'll nail it.

. . . of course reading anything that simpleton says annoys me, so I probably didn't read his comments in detail.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The simple answer is that Marvel allowed it. When FOX acquired the Pool rights back in 2005, Marvel signed off on his integration within the X-Men cinematic universe. Though I'm certain they immediately regretted that decision after his XMO:W debut.

Like the Hulk, his rights are a bit more complicated than many other characters. According to one source, the terms of Ward's contract are much more favorable to Marvel than X-Men proper.

http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...-is-deadpool-part-of-foxs-x-men-movie-rights/

https://www.thestreet.com/story/134...dpool-is-paying-dividends-for-disney-too.html

I'm pretty sure I read something clearer and more straight-forward than either of those, but I did some searching and I can't find it.

From what I remember, someone was saying that Deadpool (obviously) wasn't included in the original X-Men rights, but after Fox acquired him and renegotiated with Marvel they wrote it so that he was basically a character that fit in with the X-Men rights just like Wolverine or Cyclops - it was just done after-the-fact.

 

[Docker2.0]

Well it makes sense because Deadpool is a mutant anyway and fits with the X-men. The F4 has no business mixing with the Xmen........they are just to different of a genre. It's why they rarely meet in the comics because they are just way to different and for Fox to try and fit that square peg into a round hole shows just how much they don't get the characters.

 

[Tilapia]

FOX is in a predicament. They have one franchise that is growing stale and another that never gained any traction to begin with. They struck oil with Deadpool. But if they want to milk that series Deadpool needs to be the same guy we saw in that movie. No toning him down to make him fit in with other Xfilms. He needs to remain rated R.

And honestly.......how excited would anyone be to see FF in an Xfilm anyways? If they ever cross with anybody it should be the MCU. New cast by the way. No one will give a crap about Reed showing up at the X Mansion.

Nobody is paying for a New Mutants film. Negasonic and the likes cannot support a film. McAvoy's Xavier can't be aged quick enough to appear in the present day.

I think they are going to scrap Gambit too. I think Gambit is likely to merge with the 80's cast in a sequel down the road.

The only viable option is Deadpool 2, which spins off into X-Force a few years later. That's your March 2018 movie. I don't see another X-Men film coming out until summer 2019 earliest. I think they've scheduled one for Fall 2017, but I just don't see them making Gambit. I suppose it's possible, but I think if it's 80's the X-Men will have a small role. Budget is going way down, like 100 million tops, and that's a good thing.

 

[Orba]

Nobody is paying for a New Mutants film. Negasonic and the likes cannot support a film. McAvoy's Xavier can't be aged quick enough to appear in the present day.

Even the 90s will be a massive stretch, McAvoy playing Xavier in the 90s would mean he was playing a character that was older that Patrick Stewart was when he played the character in X1.

 

[Tilapia]

I'm going to recant what I just said earlier and say that the best solution for Fox is to make a Gambit film with some of the new X-Men characters in support. I think this is the best solution for cost cutting measures. McAvoy will demand more money if he's to return in a feature role. It would be cheaper to leave the X-Men out with a possible exception of one or two figures.

I think you can pick up with the Morlocks and Sinister, and introduce all of that in a Gambit spinoff. X-Men can be featured in support. Fox is more comfortable with that than the whole team spectacle, and box office returns clearly do not favor team/spectacle films at this juncture.

We need a long breather before they fire up another trilogy. The demand just isn't there at this point. Just keep fans occupied with lower budget spinoffs.

 

[Orba]

Last we heard Gambit was not going to be a low budget film, its budget has been estimated at $155million. Of course the question is how much things like Deadpool's success on a far lower budget has shaken things up. And thats all only if the film gets made.

 

[Tilapia]

Meh, the film is in pre-production. No way any estimates would be accurate at this juncture. It will depend on what characters are in the script. Origins did cost 150 million, but Jackman was getting good salary bump at that time and it featured some unnecessary characters that were expensive to do. 155 million sounds about right anyhow. You'd probably need more than The Wolverine with some of the CGI that will be required.

 

[Endeavor]

50 Days:
https://fncd.net/v?id=rTHR-PD

 

[Darth_Spock]

Not sure if this news came up in here before my time but in any case it appears I'd missed the memo where Fox let go of 100's of people back in April throughout Fox's Film (I wonder how many of those worked on the set of Fan4stic and why Kinberg wasn't one them) and TV divisions as part of the announcement back in Feb. that 20th Century was cutting $250M.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ce-reductions-250-million-20160201-story.html

http://deadline.com/2016/03/21st-century-fox-buyouts-fox-20th-century-fox-tv-1201713028/

For me this confirms that although Fox isn't in as big a financial bind as Sony was things aren't going as greatly as they'd like them to. And also that the Film and TV divisions aren't as divided as people may believe they are.

I mention that last part because of the X-men T.V. deal with Marvel in which many people speculated that Marvel/Disney had to have gotten something for giving Fox the green light to make 2 X-men TV shows and how some dismissed the thought of it being the FF rights swap insisting that one division of Fox had nothing to do with the other.

Granted nothing's concrete as far as FF rights for X-men TV shows go but speculation that a deal could've happened could still be plausible since getting rid of 100's of employees in both fields held no prejudice.

So what do you guys think?

 

[Endeavor]

...
For me this confirms that although Fox isn't in as big a financial bind as Sony was things aren't going as greatly as they'd like them to. And also that the Film and TV divisions aren't as divided as people may think they are.

I mention that last part because of the X-men T.V. deal with Marvel in which many people speculated that Marvel/Disney had to have gotten something for giving Fox the green light to make 2 X-men TV shows and how some dismissed the thought of it being the FF rights swap insisting that one division of Fox had nothing to do with the other.

Granted nothing's concrete as far as FF rights for X-men TV shows go but speculation that a deal could've happened could still be plausible since getting rid of employees in both fields held no prejudice.

So what do you guys think?

Good catch

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Not sure if this news came up in here before my time but in any case it appears I'd missed the memo where Fox let go of 100's of people back in April throughout Fox's Film (I wonder how many of those worked on the set of Fan4stic and why Kinberg wasn't one them) and TV divisions as part of the announcement back in Feb. that 20th Century was cutting $250M.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ce-reductions-250-million-20160201-story.html

http://deadline.com/2016/03/21st-century-fox-buyouts-fox-20th-century-fox-tv-1201713028/

For me this confirms that although Fox isn't in as big a financial bind as Sony was things aren't going as greatly as they'd like them to. And also that the Film and TV divisions aren't as divided as people may believe they are.

I mention that last part because of the X-men T.V. deal with Marvel in which many people speculated that Marvel/Disney had to have gotten something for giving Fox the green light to make 2 X-men TV shows and how some dismissed the thought of it being the FF rights swap insisting that one division of Fox had nothing to do with the other.

Granted nothing's concrete as far as FF rights for X-men TV shows go but speculation that a deal could've happened could still be plausible since getting rid of employees in both fields held no prejudice.

So what do you guys think?

Good info.

Even if Fox was doing phenomenally well, it doesn't make sense for any company to throw away money. I believe Fox is throwing away money by not utilizing their Marvel properties nearly as well as they could, and I believe Marvel is ready, willing and able to start helping them make better films (as they did with Sony).

Whether Fox is smart enough to make a deal remains to be seen, but there's no reason they shouldn't.