The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[FVD]

If Fox works on that deal for those X-Men TV Series, I say scrap Legion and Hellfire if they maybe intend on working together as I do believe it would be a better idea to create a TV Series on the Original X-Men. I suppose Iceman will contribute mostly to the budget as the more we see of him in Iceform, the better methinks. It would be a great way to flesh out Scott, Jean, Warren, Hank and Bobby - and even Xavier too. Personally this is my dream to happen.

From what I read about Kinberg's disagreeing over the recent First Class comic run and opting to go the 60's route, that should have set the alarm bells ringing. And disregarding female Angel and conveniently not acknowledging her with 80's Angel was a sick joke. Still not over Alex being Scott's big brother either!!!! And bring back the accents too ffs!

 

[Flint Marko]

Just noticed that the promo for Legion is on the front page of Marvel.com. Since the inception of the MCU I don't believe I've seen them promote a rival studios film/tv show on their front page before, let alone a Fox property.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Just noticed that the promo for Legion is on the front page of Marvel.com. Since the inception of the MCU I don't believe I've seen them promote a rival studios film/tv show on their front page before, let alone a Fox property.

 

[wobbly]

Just noticed that the promo for Legion is on the front page of Marvel.com. Since the inception of the MCU I don't believe I've seen them promote a rival studios film/tv show on their front page before, let alone a Fox property.

They might well have pre MCU or pre Disney, but I don't think they have since.

Officially the TV shows are co-productions though, so having that association may be the reason...or it maybe something else....

Hope remains

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Officially the TV shows are co-productions though, so having that association may be the reason..

But doesn't that beg the question: "If they're co-producing TV shows, why does it still seem a crazy notion that they could start co-producing films ... particularly when it makes so much sense for both parties?"

 

[Professor S]

Just to pour salt on an open wound, HBO had a description for the 1994 Corman version on its guide last night instead of listing the 2015 bomb. I think it was to get people to tune in.

 

[Dark Raven]

Just to pour salt on an open wound, HBO had a description for the 1994 Corman version on its guide last night instead of listing the 2015 bomb. I think it was to get people to tune in.

That's like listing the description for the Nicholas Hammond Spider-Man TV pilot to get people to tune into a modern day Spidey movie.

 

[ernesth100]

I just need that deal to happen.

 

[Spiderine]

Make sense to me. Co produce and help promote these shows and ensure a successful launch. Marvel holds their end of the bargain and Fox will hold theirs. Either the FF are headed home at a earlier reversion date or Marvel has been given access to some very important characters enabling them to make plans. I don't believe anything official has taken place yet which is why we won't hear much of nothing. Fox will benefit immediately first.

 

[ernesth100]

I hope they go with the Worlds Collide Secret Wars type deal so they don't have to replace any actors yet. They just recasted the entirety of the X-Men.

 

[Dasher10]

I hope they go with the Worlds Collide Secret Wars type deal so they don't have to replace any actors yet. They just recasted the entirety of the X-Men.

Agreed. They're even going to recast Wolverine with a new actor for the next X-Men film in 2018 and they're also bringing in Cable, Gambit and X-23. The X-Men are so perfectly established that I can't see Fox scrapping that universe, especially given how much money Deadpool made.

X-Men: Apocalypse was absolutely a springboard for future projects that focused more on world building than it did on telling a good story. To to be fair, Fox kind of had to do that. So something where worlds collide could work since Fox will have lost Jackman and probably Lawrence and Hoult while Marvel will be losing Downey and probably Evans and Hemsworth. If there's any way to make fans want to embrace a new Wolverine, Mystique, Beast, Iron Man, Captain America and Thor it's with a huge event film larger than anything that anyone has seen before.

Plus Marvel will have run out of new franchises to develop. If the rumors about Ghost Rider, Blade and Moon Knight are true, all that Marvel will have left to develop are Eternals and Thunderbolts since they can't do a She-Hulk TV show or Namor film with Universal in the way. There are always the properties starring young heroes like New Warriors, Power Pack, Young Avengers, Runaways and Avengers Academy but those would all be better off as TV shows because the actors will age out of the roles by the time of the third movie. Getting the X-Men in the MCU means a whole lot more merchandise to be produced and all that Fox would need to do is give up their cut on merch revenue, give Marvel costuming and script approval and agree to do a two-part event film as a co-production.

Other terms would be Fox agreeing to two to three X-Men films per year or the rights would revert to Marvel and Fox would need to give up the rights to the Fantastic Four so they can undergo a hard reboot. The current cast sucks aside from Jordan who's now playing Killmonger in the MCU and Doom is dead so the current franchise can't continue. Marvel Studios would also get the right to use certain X-Men characters in other MCU properties and neither studio would be allowed to completely kill off the character. The list being, GW Bridge, Juggernaut, Rogue, Cytorrak, The Shi'Ar, Wolverine, Beast, The Brood, Shadowcat, Storm, Abigail Brand, Iceman, Madame HYDRA, Henry Peter Gyrich, Captain Britain, Magneto, X-23, Cable, Arcade, Prodigy, Deadpool and Havok if Fox ever decides to resurrect the latter.

 

[Knight_SV]

I wanna laugh at how kinberg taking credit for deadpool success while he doesn't have any input

 

[Orba]

Just noticed that the promo for Legion is on the front page of Marvel.com. Since the inception of the MCU I don't believe I've seen them promote a rival studios film/tv show on their front page before, let alone a Fox property.

Yeah I definitely found that interesting, Marvel logos on the picture and the announcement using Loeb. It makes me want to know even more what was in the deal that Fox made to allow the TV series to happen.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

We have a very simple example of the value Marvel can offer to Fox if Fox is smart enough to take it.

How excited would any of us or any of our (less comic-book literate) friends, relatives, co-workers etc. be for an upcoming Spider-man film if Marvel hadn't gotten involved?

How excited are we after seeing Civil War?

Marvel knows what they're doing. They keep things fresh and interesting.

By comparison, Sony with Spider-Man and Fox with X-Men continued to make the same films over and over again until fans and reviewers got sick of them.

Fox with X-Men is in a very similar situation to where Sony was after ASM2. Fox needs to rework the X-men and inject some life into them.

They can do it on their own, or they can do it with Marvel. To me, it seems starting fresh with Marvel's help is a no-brainer.

So when a no-brainer solution is presented to management with no brains, I guess we'll see where that goes . . .

 

[wobbly]

I wanna laugh at how kinberg taking credit for deadpool success while he doesn't have any input

Is he? That wouldn't surprise me but that hack isn't fooling anyone who has followed all these shenanigans.

Tbh I do wonder how the hell Fox have not seen through him by now, but then I was surprised all to hell they promoted him to a 'Feige lite' position on their CBM's.

Maybe Apocalypse limping along will finally open their eyes.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Being Simon Kinberg has to be a difficult experience.

He must realize on some level that he just doesn't have it. Unless he really is dirt-dumb, he must look around and see other people with talent actually making good films while he has the reverse Midas touch and everything he touches turns to crap. .

Why not just retire? Wouldn't it be better to be anonymous than to be a well-known loser?

I guess he must just not be able to come to terms with his lack of talent and some part of him must believe all his failures have been someone else's fault - even though an outside observer can clearly see he's the common denominator.

 

[ernesth100]

Agreed. They're even going to recast Wolverine with a new actor for the next X-Men film in 2018 and they're also bringing in Cable, Gambit and X-23. The X-Men are so perfectly established that I can't see Fox scrapping that universe, especially given how much money Deadpool made.

X-Men: Apocalypse was absolutely a springboard for future projects that focused more on world building than it did on telling a good story. To to be fair, Fox kind of had to do that. So something where worlds collide could work since Fox will have lost Jackman and probably Lawrence and Hoult while Marvel will be losing Downey and probably Evans and Hemsworth. If there's any way to make fans want to embrace a new Wolverine, Mystique, Beast, Iron Man, Captain America and Thor it's with a huge event film larger than anything that anyone has seen before.

Plus Marvel will have run out of new franchises to develop. If the rumors about Ghost Rider, Blade and Moon Knight are true, all that Marvel will have left to develop are Eternals and Thunderbolts since they can't do a She-Hulk TV show or Namor film with Universal in the way. There are always the properties starring young heroes like New Warriors, Power Pack, Young Avengers, Runaways and Avengers Academy but those would all be better off as TV shows because the actors will age out of the roles by the time of the third movie. Getting the X-Men in the MCU means a whole lot more merchandise to be produced and all that Fox would need to do is give up their cut on merch revenue, give Marvel costuming and script approval and agree to do a two-part event film as a co-production.

Other terms would be Fox agreeing to two to three X-Men films per year or the rights would revert to Marvel and Fox would need to give up the rights to the Fantastic Four so they can undergo a hard reboot. The current cast sucks aside from Jordan who's now playing Killmonger in the MCU and Doom is dead so the current franchise can't continue. Marvel Studios would also get the right to use certain X-Men characters in other MCU properties and neither studio would be allowed to completely kill off the character. The list being, GW Bridge, Juggernaut, Rogue, Cytorrak, The Shi'Ar, Wolverine, Beast, The Brood, Shadowcat, Storm, Abigail Brand, Iceman, Madame HYDRA, Henry Peter Gyrich, Captain Britain, Magneto, X-23, Cable, Arcade, Prodigy, Deadpool and Havok if Fox ever decides to resurrect the latter.

Took the words right out of my mouth. F4 failed and definately isnt getting a sequel unless they produce it on a Deadpool style 50 million budget. The two biggest characters Fox have are Wolverine and Deadpool. So I hope they find it in their heart to make it happen.

 

[Aztec]

We have a very simple example of the value Marvel can offer to Fox if Fox is smart enough to take it.

Marvel knows what they're doing. They keep things fresh and interesting.

By comparison, Sony with Spider-Man and Fox with X-Men continued to make the same films over and over again until fans and reviewers got sick of them.

Fox with X-Men is in a very similar situation to where Sony was after ASM2. Fox needs to rework the X-men and inject some life into them.

They can do it on their own, or they can do it with Marvel. To me, it seems starting fresh with Marvel's help is a no-brainer.

So when a no-brainer solution is presented to management with no brains, I guess we'll see where that goes . . .

I certainly agree that the only good choice Fox could make here is to let the X-Men and Fantastic Four operate within the MCU like Spidey does. But...

With the success of Deadpool I just don't think they will get that message. The message the dopes over at Fox probably got from DP was "All film must be Rated R!". So they will probably believe they can keep the X-Men in some "R Rated Deadpool-verse".

As to Fox being in the same situation as Sony...Id say yes and no.

Yes, because like Sony they have run a franchise into the ground and exhausted their formulaic storytelling model (call the MCU anything you want but don't call it "formulaic" it's ANYTHING but that). They are also experiencing clear diminishing returns. Hell BvS was an epic disaster and it will nearly double the gross of XM:A.

No, because Sony as a company was on the verge of financial collapse, on top of a well publicized PR nightmare of epic proportions. Fox is not in that situation. Fox can also hang their hats on the fact that they someone listened to capable humans within their ranks and found success with Deadpool.

However IMHO it makes too much sense for Fox to fold X-Men and Fantastic Four into the MCU. It's not even like there would be continuity issues since X-Men takes place in what 1983? But clowns will be clowns...

Oh and F Kinberg!

 

[Joe Rockhead]

Being Simon Kinberg has to be a difficult experience.

He must realize on some level that he just doesn't have it. Unless he really is dirt-dumb, he must look around and see other people with talent actually making good films while he has the reverse Midas touch and everything he touches turns to crap. .

Why not just retire? Wouldn't it be better to be anonymous than to be a well-known loser?

I guess he must just not be able to come to terms with his lack of talent and some part of him must believe all his failures have been someone else's fault - even though an outside observer can clearly see he's the common denominator.

I'm sure that Kinberg must be crying like a baby every time he cashes a check.

Some people are just born to ignore the derision of the general public -- he must be one of those people.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

With the success of Deadpool I just don't think they will get that message. The message the dopes over at Fox probably got from DP was "All film must be Rated R!". So they will probably believe they can keep the X-Men in some "R Rated Deadpool-verse".

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right. But any rational person would look at it and realize for every one Deadpool, Fox makes two or three stinkers.

I'm sure there are plenty of people at Fox saying: "We got this. Just look at what we did with Deadpool!" While ignoring the fact that two of their last three Marvel-based films were stinkers.

Even a blind squirrel catches a nut on occasion.

And as for how they would integrate with Marvel, we can all come up with ways we'd like to see it go, but if I were Fox, I'd turn it over to Marvel and let them decide the best way. That would be the whole point of working with Marvel - to allow them to make the decisions Fox doesn't understand how to make themselves.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm sure that Kinberg must be crying like a baby every time he cashes a check.

I have to imagine the management at Fox is crying every time they write him one.

 

[Aztec]

If I were to make a presentation to the bonehead execs at Fox I would speak their language to persuade them. It would do something like this:

You like making money.
You make movies to make money.
Comic book movies can make money.
Your comic book movies usually don't make money.

Marvel makes comic book movies.
Marvel movies always make money.
Your characters happen to be Marvel characters.

Marvel can make your movies.
Marvel movies always make money.
You like money.
Making movies with Marvel will make you money.
You should make movies with Marvel.

 

[Endeavor]

^Too many words for them to retain in just one conversation.

 

[Tony Stark]

As I mentioned in my other thread. Other than Deadpool, no other Marvel properties have a real future at Fox. XMA was pretty resoundingly rejected at the box office, and next week, it's probably going to have a steep drop with Ninja Turtles coming out. While Ninja Turtles is getting slammed by the critics, it's going to make bank as another Michael Bay produced piece of nostalgia that will bring in the kiddies, who don't care about critics.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

As I mentioned in my other thread. Other than Deadpool, no other Marvel properties have a real future at Fox. XMA was pretty resoundingly rejected at the box office, and next week, it's probably going to have a steep drop with Ninja Turtles coming out. While Ninja Turtles is getting slammed by the critics, it's going to make bank as another Michael Bay produced piece of nostalgia that will bring in the kiddies, who don't care about critics.

They could have a future if they were smart about it, but I haven't heard people at Fox saying many smart things.

Do they even realize that the reason Deadpool did well was they made a film that captured the key elements of the comic-book . . . or do they just think it's because it's an R-Rated film?

I haven't seen any interviews with any Fox execs that have acknowledged that point or pledged to not give the fans the opposite of what they want again. Just the fact that Simon Kinberg is still talking and nobody at Fox has said: "Shut the f*** up and you're fired." illustrates to me that they don't get it.

If they start fresh with a mantra of giving the fans what they want and putting the right person in charge, it's not impossible for them to start doing things right. But they haven't shown any capability of doing those common-sense things in the past. So I would say it's possible. . . but not likely that they could pull things together.

And as for FF, they have close to zero chance of bringing that back. As I said, their primary objective would have to be to give fans what they want. Fantastic Four fans want one, relatively simple thing: For fox to never make another Fantastic Four film.

So that makes it impossible for them to ever make another FF film while giving fans what they want.

I don't care if they find a way to bring Jack Kirby back from the dead to act as production designer. They won't be getting any of my money.