The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 5

[InCali]

Something has happened, or something will happen in the coming years and I'm just waiting to see what the details will be.

Heck, even if Fox comes out and publicly announces a reboot, there will be some entertainment and sick, perverse pleasure in watching the internet melt.

. . . and imagine if they slipped Willie Lumpkin into Dr. Strange. 99.9% of viewers wouldn't think anything of it, but people on this thread would know something was going on.t:

I can't believe for a second that Fox would have any desire for another reboot and I can't imagine that those in charge would allow it. It wouldn't fly even if it was good because Fox has already frelled things up.

Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben (as regular people) in IW2 is what I'm hoping for. Can you imagine even an after credits scene where they are getting ready to blast into outer space? The crowd would go nuts.

AND, I'm not letting go either. FF was my favorite group; more so than The Avengers.

Marvel to Fox "It's clobberin' time".....

 

[Rorschach2012]

Time to let it go Lumpkin.

what are you talking about? Just because we didn't get an announcement at SDCC? Common sense leads me to believe that Fox won't attempt to reboot the FF before the rights lapse. Naturally the best option for Fox is to partner with Marvel or sell them the rights while the property is still worth something. These are the only options I foresee happening.

All eyes are on Fox, everyone knows that the best course of action is to get the FF in the MCU. Any other movie depiction of the FF without the MCU connection WILL fail.

We are getting a MCU version of the FF at some point in the next five years, I would bet on it.

Going forward, Marvel is going to eventually really need those FF related characters that come with the FF deal. I think they will shell out a good amount of money for the rights. There's really a lot that comes with the deal. If they get the rights, or agree to some mutually beneficial deal, Marvel will have enough material to mine for an entire phase, just in the characters and stories involved in the deal alone.

God just imagine if they threw in a little Galactus and Silver Surfer introduction in Guardians 3? And after the Guardians franchise wraps up, you've got another Marvel space franchise in Silver Surfer! Kang could be the villain for an Avengers movie after Infinity War. Doctor Doom could take Thanos' place as the big bad of the MCU. And I know both Marvel and Fox share the rights for the Skrulls, but I really would like to see Super Skrull introduced, perhaps in a Fantastic Four movie that leads into Avengers: Secret Invasion?

So much potential here... I know there are talks. Marvel wants these rights BAD, and Fox wants to make money. A deal will be struck.

 

[Dark Raven]

I can't believe for a second that Fox would have any desire for another reboot and I can't imagine that those in charge would allow it. It wouldn't fly even if it was good because Fox has already frelled things up.

Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben (as regular people) in IW2 is what I'm hoping for. Can you imagine even an after credits scene where they are getting ready to blast into outer space? The crowd would go nuts.

AND, I'm not letting go either. FF was my favorite group; more so than The Avengers.

Fox to themselves after putting out a fourth FF dud and waiting for the reviews to come in: "It's clobberin' time".....

Fixed.

 

[InCali]

what are you talking about? Just because we didn't get an announcement at SDCC? Common sense leads me to believe that Fox won't attempt to reboot the FF before the rights lapse. Naturally the best option for Fox is to partner with Marvel or sell them the rights while the property is still worth something. These are the only options I foresee happening.

All eyes are on Fox, everyone knows that the best course of action is to get the FF in the MCU. Any other movie depiction of the FF without the MCU connection WILL fail.

We are getting a MCU version of the FF at some point in the next five years, I would bet on it.

Going forward, Marvel is going to eventually really need those FF related characters that come with the FF deal. I think they will shell out a good amount of money for the rights. There's really a lot that comes with the deal. If they get the rights, or agree to some mutually beneficial deal, Marvel will have enough material to mine for an entire phase, just in the characters and stories involved in the deal alone.

God just imagine if they threw in a little Galactus and Silver Surfer introduction in Guardians 3? And after the Guardians franchise wraps up, you've got another Marvel space franchise in Silver Surfer! Kang could be the villain for an Avengers movie after Infinity War. Doctor Doom could take Thanos' place as the big bad of the MCU. And I know both Marvel and Fox share the rights for the Skrulls, but I really would like to see Super Skrull introduced, perhaps in a Fantastic Four movie that leads into Avengers: Secret Invasion?

So much potential here... I know there are talks. Marvel wants these rights BAD, and Fox wants to make money. A deal will be struck.

TOTALLY AGREE. The FF villains alone are priceless. I have the Avengers #8 where Kang is the villain. Him, Doom, Galactus, SS (not a villain really)......yup. We'd be good to go.

I just want to see a good FF movie.

 

[Darth_Spock]

I believe an MCU FF film at the earliest would happen by 2020. And would probably serve as an ensemble film. It would have to be an epic event film. But they would be introduced in a prior film to set them up similar to the way Spidey was. Something to make a huge splash.

This is how I see it going down. They aren't the focal point in the immediate future like Spidey was so there is literally no need for marvel to make some grandioso announcement that they have them back. They have more than enough character old and new to occupy their time all the way to 2019.

Yeah, I guess creating the idea that Marvel wouldn't mind having the franchise but don't really need it, would be a good barganing strategy against a Fox studio who's clearly backed against the wall with F4 and possibly X-men.

So how likely are Fox to make another reboot or Sequel to Fantastic Four should they ask for a Sony deal and Marvel says "NO"?

 

[InCali]

Fixed.

To be repetitive.....I don't see Fox doing a reboot or a sequel (the former being slightly more likely than the latter).

 

[Zarex]

So how likely are Fox to make another reboot or Sequel to Fantastic Four should they ask for a Sony deal and Marvel says "NO"?

I can't see Marvel agreeing to a Sony type deal as the FF franchise doesn't have the BO standing to make the investment worthwhile. But I would still put the odds at a FOX reboot or sequel at 1% or lower.

The FF is an absolute worst case scenario for a potential franchise reboot. Due to their power sets the First Family is extremely expensive to put on screen. FOX has twice cut corners by drawing out the origin. Ready to see the team pre-transformation again for a third time? I know I am not. And if you have them fully powered up for most of the run time you're looking at least a $150M budget. FOX would have to hope a sequel or reboot at least doubles up FFINO's BO total to break even. No sane person would greenlight a feature facing such odds.

To have a chance at success a FOX sequel or reboot would need big stars, amazing production values and a kick-a** ad campaign. But all of those things cost money, and the ever declining BO and poor quality of the prior three offerings makes it impossible to justify such an investment. And even if FOX was willing to part with the cash, it would be awfully tough to convince a high profile actor and/or director to make the next installment in a disaster of a franchise.

If someone can come up with a scenario in which FOX continues to put out FF films and not lose tens of millions of dollars, I would love to hear it. I don't think such a scenario exists.

 

[Darth_Spock]

I'll let it go the moment we have an official announcement.

I have neither the ability nor interest to let it go before then.

It's not like I started hoping for a good FF film last week. I've been hoping for one since the early seventies, and I'm not going to stop now just because Fox management is comprised of sons of b****es who currently have a strangle-hold on the FF rights.

You tell'em Willie!

What's that guy's deal anyway? Is the thread bothering him in some way? Maybe people like that should practice what they preach.

Besides, Fox hasn't been doing to well lately anyway so the one thing I won't be letting go of is my cash as far as they're concerned.

 

[InCali]

I can't see Marvel agreeing to a Sony type deal as the FF franchise doesn't have the BO standing to make the investment worthwhile. But I would still put the odds at a FOX reboot or sequel at 1% or lower.

The FF is an absolute worst case scenario for a potential franchise reboot. Due to their power sets the First Family is extremely expensive to put on screen. FOX has twice cut corners by drawing out the origin. Ready to see the team pre-transformation again for a third time? I know I am not. And if you have them fully powered up for most of the run time you're looking at least a $150M budget. FOX would have to hope a sequel or reboot at least doubles up FFINO's BO total to break even. No sane person would greenlight a feature facing such odds.

To have a chance at success a FOX sequel or reboot would need big stars, amazing production values and a kick-a** ad campaign. But all of those things cost money, and the ever declining BO and poor quality of the prior three offerings makes it impossible to justify such an investment. And even if FOX was willing to part with the cash, it would be awfully tough to convince a high profile actor and/or director to make the next installment in a disaster of a franchise.

If someone can come up with a scenario in which FOX continues to put out FF films and not lose tens of millions of dollars, I would love to hear it. I don't think such a scenario exists.

I think and hope you're right.

Like your Avi. I have that CB.

 

[Spiderine]

Yeah, I guess creating the idea that Marvel wouldn't mind having the franchise but don't really need it, would be a good barganing strategy against a Fox studio who's clearly backed against the wall with F4 and possibly X-men.

So how likely are Fox to make another reboot or Sequel to Fantastic Four should they ask for a Sony deal and Marvel says "NO"?

FOX really has very little options here. This franchise has never been profitable or successful enough to warrant anything. They already did a worthless reboot that damaged it further. The idea of a spinoff featuring other characters from the franchise is about as smart as Sony doing a movie about Doc Ock.

The only possible deal for FOX would be similar to what Universal has with Hulk/Namor where they distribute any FF films Marvel makes. But why the hell would Marvel agree to that? The fans have clearly voiced their desire to bring FF to the MCU. Any deal FOX should make would involve benefits to its Xmen franchise.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

You tell'em Willie!

What's that guy's deal anyway? Is the thread bothering him in some way? Maybe people like that should practice what they preach.

Besides, Fox hasn't been doing to well lately anyway so the one thing I won't be letting go of is my cash as far as they're concerned.

TheVileOne is a good guy. He and I go way back. I think he's trying to prevent me from banging my head against a wall with the belief that we're going to get an announcement tomorrow.

But I'm not expecting an announcement tomorrow. I'm just looking toward the future and feeling our prospects are realistically better than they've ever been.

It might take a while, but when Fox management looks at this chart of worldwide box-office numbers for the three FF films in order, there's no way they green-light a sequel or reboot within the next 5 years:

 

[InCali]

FOX really has very little options here. This franchise has never been profitable or successful enough to warrant anything. They already did a worthless reboot that damaged it further. The idea of a spinoff featuring other characters from the franchise is about as smart as Sony doing a movie about Doc Ock.

The only possible deal for FOX would be similar to what Universal has with Hulk/Namor where they distribute any FF films Marvel makes. But why the hell would Marvel agree to that? The fans have clearly voiced their desire to bring FF to the MCU. Any deal FOX should make would involve benefits to its Xmen franchise.

Never been that profitable or successful under Fox. Neither was DD. Marvel took that and created a KILLER show. Probably not as profitable as a movie, but it was very, very successful. I know that Marvel allowed X-Men TV shows (2 I think?). Does anyone know what Marvel got in exchange for that?

I'm a little bit worried about where X-Men go from here. I liked FC and DoFP a lot, but think Apocalypse was a step backwards. Not enough to kill anything, but X-Men doesn't have the goodwill capital that MCU movies have. MCU could make a misstep and still be okay. Another bad X film and things could get ugly.

The bottom line is that Marvel just seems to know how to do these movies better than everyone else. When you can release Ant-Man and have it outdraw X-Men:A domestically and basically pull the same numbers WW, you know something is wrong. A good FF movie under the Marvel banner would do quite well IMO.

 

[InCali]

TheVileOne is a good guy. He and I go way back. I think he's trying to prevent me from banging my head against a wall with the belief that we're going to get an announcement tomorrow.

But I'm not expecting an announcement tomorrow. I'm just looking toward the future and feeling our prospects are realistically better than they've ever been.

It might take a while, but when Fox management looks at this chart of worldwide box-office numbers for the three FF films in order, there's no way they green-light a sequel or reboot within the next 5 years:

That was the vibe I picked up too.

 

[Dark Raven]

I can't see Marvel agreeing to a Sony type deal as the FF franchise doesn't have the BO standing to make the investment worthwhile. But I would still put the odds at a FOX reboot or sequel at 1% or lower.

The FF is an absolute worst case scenario for a potential franchise reboot. Due to their power sets the First Family is extremely expensive to put on screen. FOX has twice cut corners by drawing out the origin. Ready to see the team pre-transformation again for a third time? I know I am not. And if you have them fully powered up for most of the run time you're looking at least a $150M budget. FOX would have to hope a sequel or reboot at least doubles up FFINO's BO total to break even. No sane person would greenlight a feature facing such odds.

To have a chance at success a FOX sequel or reboot would need big stars, amazing production values and a kick-a** ad campaign. But all of those things cost money, and the ever declining BO and poor quality of the prior three offerings makes it impossible to justify such an investment. And even if FOX was willing to part with the cash, it would be awfully tough to convince a high profile actor and/or director to make the next installment in a disaster of a franchise.

If someone can come up with a scenario in which FOX continues to put out FF films and not lose tens of millions of dollars, I would love to hear it. I don't think such a scenario exists.

All the employees at Fox:

 

[Zarex]

Never been that profitable or successful under Fox. Neither was DD. Marvel took that and created a KILLER show. Probably not as profitable as a movie, but it was very, very successful. I know that Marvel allowed X-Men TV shows (2 I think?). Does anyone know what Marvel got in exchange for that?

Nothing was announced. What we do know is that Disney gave up their exclusive control over Marvel branded television programming, increasing the competition in a crowded marketplace for comic book based TV while strengthening FOX's hold over the X-Men franchise. It seems highly unlikely that the Mouse did so in exchange for a minority stake in "Legion" and the recently announced "Mutants on the run" show announced for the FOX network.

My guess is FOX handed over the FF family live action rights in exchange for X-Men TV rights. We shall see.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Fox's best opportunity to make a deal was fall of last year.

I'm sure Marvel would like to get the rights, and they'd like to get the rights sooner rather than later so they can start working characters into their long-range plans. So they might have been willing to pay something to have the rights solidly in their hands last fall.

But we know and Fox knows and Marvel knows that Fox will never convince management to approve another FF film.

With each passing day, the natural reversion date draws closer. And as we get closer to that date, the motivation for Marvel to go out of their way to make a deal drops.

If Fox didn't make a deal last fall, the value of the rights is dropping every day they hold on to them.

 

[Spiderine]

Never been that profitable or successful under Fox. Neither was DD. Marvel took that and created a KILLER show. Probably not as profitable as a movie, but it was very, very successful. I know that Marvel allowed X-Men TV shows (2 I think?). Does anyone know what Marvel got in exchange for that?

I'm a little bit worried about where X-Men go from here. I liked FC and DoFP a lot, but think Apocalypse was a step backwards. Not enough to kill anything, but X-Men doesn't have the goodwill capital that MCU movies have. MCU could make a misstep and still be okay. Another bad X film and things could get ugly.

The bottom line is that Marvel just seems to know how to do these movies better than everyone else. When you can release Ant-Man and have it outdraw X-Men:A domestically and basically pull the same numbers WW, you know something is wrong. A good FF movie under the Marvel banner would do quite well IMO.

I just think the X franchise is a victim of age and retreaded ideas. Literally doing the same things over and over again. 16 years in and how many movies now? I didn't even get excited for Apocalypse. Thats why they could use a bone thrown from Marvel. Anything to help inject some excitement again.

FF on the other hand has been dead on arrival. Whether its Corman, Story, or the FFINO guy......yet to be a definitive film made that fans are universally proud of. Only Marvel can sell the FF by incorporating it into the MCU brand. I am hoping for a phase 4 intro.

 

[TheVileOne]

what are you talking about? Just because we didn't get an announcement at SDCC? Common sense leads me to believe that Fox won't attempt to reboot the FF before the rights lapse. Naturally the best option for Fox is to partner with Marvel or sell them the rights while the property is still worth something. These are the only options I foresee happening.

All eyes are on Fox, everyone knows that the best course of action is to get the FF in the MCU. Any other movie depiction of the FF without the MCU connection WILL fail.

We are getting a MCU version of the FF at some point in the next five years, I would bet on it.

Going forward, Marvel is going to eventually really need those FF related characters that come with the FF deal. I think they will shell out a good amount of money for the rights. There's really a lot that comes with the deal. If they get the rights, or agree to some mutually beneficial deal, Marvel will have enough material to mine for an entire phase, just in the characters and stories involved in the deal alone.

God just imagine if they threw in a little Galactus and Silver Surfer introduction in Guardians 3? And after the Guardians franchise wraps up, you've got another Marvel space franchise in Silver Surfer! Kang could be the villain for an Avengers movie after Infinity War. Doctor Doom could take Thanos' place as the big bad of the MCU. And I know both Marvel and Fox share the rights for the Skrulls, but I really would like to see Super Skrull introduced, perhaps in a Fantastic Four movie that leads into Avengers: Secret Invasion?

So much potential here... I know there are talks. Marvel wants these rights BAD, and Fox wants to make money. A deal will be struck.

None of this is based on common sense or facts. All of it is just willful speculation. Even what people say are based on fact are either based on lies or again just speculation.

 

[InCali]

None of this is based on common sense or facts. All of it is just willful speculation. Even what people say are based on fact are either based on lies or again just speculation.

What does "your" common sense tell you?

 

[Zarex]

Yeah, "Common Sense Guy" really oughta provide us with a scenario in which FOX reboots the FF without absorbing another massive loss. And explain why the most powerful company in entertainment is suddenly, inexplicably, handing over extremely valuable IP rights to its competition for pennies on the dollar. If I bang my head with a hammer for an hour or two it may start to make sense.

 

[Kanon]

Yeah, "Common Sense Guy" really oughta provide us with a scenario in which FOX reboots the FF without absorbing another massive loss. And explain why the most powerful company in entertainment is suddenly, inexplicably, handing over extremely valuable IP rights to its competition for pennies on the dollar. If I bang my head with a hammer for an hour or two it may start to make sense.

And that's the big issue here. Even if Fox makes a great FF move, gets great screenwriters with comic book writers as consultants, gets some big star to headline, and get the fan base on their side, the movie will most likely loose money (while critically acclaimed), and real profits wouldn't turn up until the sequel. Best case scenario for Fox is hard work for a reward in the long term. I'm pretty sure they have shown us they don't care for that approach, and they can find better things to do.

 

[TheVileOne]

We'll just have to wait and see.

Keep in mind that a solo-Hulk film still can't get made because Hulk's distribution rights are still at Universal Studios, who hasn't released a Hulk movie in eight years.

Just saying.

And never did I ever say that Fox is making another Fantastic Four movie or rebooting the franchise again either.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And that's the big issue here. Even if Fox makes a great FF move, gets great screenwriters with comic book writers as consultants, gets some big star to headline, and get the fan base on their side, the movie will most likely loose money (while critically acclaimed), and real profits wouldn't turn up until the sequel. Best case scenario for Fox is hard work for a reward in the long term. I'm pretty sure they have shown us they don't care for that approach, and they can find better things to do.

The bolded part is like saying: "and if they can catch a unicorn. . . "

They could, in theory, hire talented people (though even that is going to be very tough because . . . after what we've seen, who wants to risk their career on that?).

. . . but get the fans on their side? Four years ago, I felt very alone when I expressed the opinion "Fox can make a great film if they choose to and invest to do it right." Most other fans were far more skeptical than me at that point.

And now they've lost even me. I'm a HUGE FF fan, and all I've wanted for the past 45 years was a good FF film. But this time around, I'm not even going to give them the chance to sell me. The moment they seriously announce they're going to try to make another film, I will be devoted to doing everything in my power to tell everybody who will listen how much I hate the idea and will not give it a chance.

Can you imagine SHH if they try again? I doubt the handful of people who tried to defend the last film will even try to defend them again after getting burned so bad. They've already lost the FF fans, and I don't even think they'll have the Fox fans next time.

Is there a single person . . . anywhere who would be seriously interested in a new Fox FF film (other than Simon Kinberg)?

 

[Zarex]

We'll just have to wait and see.

Keep in mind that a solo-Hulk film still can't get made because Hulk's distribution rights are still at Universal Studios, who hasn't released a Hulk movie in eight years.

Just saying.

And never did I ever say that Fox is making another Fantastic Four movie or rebooting the franchise again either.

The Hulk deal doesn't appear to be anything like the FF. It appears as though Marvel conceded distribution in perpetuity to Universal in order to launch the MCU with their most well known non-Spidey character. Putting aspects of Planet Hulk into Ragnarok is a pretty clever work-around.

Unlike Hulk, Post mortems on FFINO reported that those associated with the production were afraid of losing the FF rights if they didn't plow ahead with the doomed production.

And if FOX is never going to make another FF movie, they will definitely make a deal with Marvel sooner rather than later (if a deal hasn't already been done). The value of the rights drops every day we get closer to the reversion date.

 

[TheVileOne]

The value of the franchise won't get any lower than it currently is.