The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[InCali]

There's nothing in there that's actually substantial or qualitative. The Verge article's sources are just other websites that don't even really spell out what happened in negotiations between Fox and Perlmutter. It's all just rumors and hearsay. There's no sufficient evidence that Fant4stic was his fault.



No, but that's not a point I'm trying to prove either.

As for making things up, this thread has been doing it since we started. People were convinced the ball was going to drop and Fantastic Four with Marvel was all set at Comic-Con didn't happen. That magical countdown meter? It had nothing to do with Fantastic Four either.

People have feelings about things without being able to prove them and can point to reason WHY that have those feelings. I didn't hear the Mailman (LOL) state this for a fact. Just had a feeling and, of course, whether he's right or not can never be proved or disproved.

 

[Docker2.0]

The name of the thread is keep HOPE alive. We are all hoping the rights go back. The better question is why are you subscribed to a thread full of things that you don't want to read?

Dang it InCali! That was meant for TVO. You jumped ranked!

 

[Zarex]

There's nothing in there that's actually substantial or qualitative. The Verge article's sources are just other websites that don't even really spell out what happened in negotiations between Fox and Perlmutter. It's all just rumors and hearsay. There's no sufficient evidence that Fant4stic was his fault.

Again, that's why Willie stated he had a feeling rather than a signed affidavit by Disney's legal team. Rather than relying solely on company issued press releases, folks on these boards at times will attempt to use their brain matter to speculate on topics we care about. It's fun! And it makes up a fairly substantial amount of the posts on these boards.

I believe that FOX was very reluctant to put another FF film into production. We can tell from the reboot announcement the same day as the Disney purchase. It appeared as though they were looking for a payoff. The fact that it took 6 years from announcement to release, along with the lack of financial commitment, supports this.

I believe FOX and Marvel had talks regarding the FF rights before FFINO went into production. We know Disney/Marvel tried to get some characters back before in 2012. We also know that Ike had all FF characters removed from licensing and all art including the FF removed from the walls of Marvel Entertainment's NY office right before FFINO started shooting. Sound fishy, right? We'd all prefer a press release, but we work with what we've got.

It's hard to know who was responsible, but it is reasonable to speculate that a deal was in the works and didn't close.

As for making things up, this thread has been doing it since we started. People were convinced the ball was going to drop and Fantastic Four with Marvel was all set at Comic-Con didn't happen. That magical countdown meter? It had nothing to do with Fantastic Four either.

As for making things up, here you go again. Folks were hoping an announcement would be made at Comic Con. Most were convinced that was unlikely, but were "Keeping Hope Alive". For someone who is so concerned about the lack of facts on a speculation board, you seem to really get a kick out of spreading around this lie.

 

[InCali]

The name of the thread is keep HOPE alive. We are all hoping the rights go back. The better question is why are you subscribed to a thread full of things that you don't want to read?

Dang it InCali! That was meant for TVO. You jumped ranked!

Tough luck for the "senior" member. I have Neva Neva worried about doing that sort of thing.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

As for making things up, here you go again. Folks were hoping an announcement would be made at Comic Con. Most were convinced that was unlikely, but were "Keeping Hope Alive". For someone who is so concerned about the lack of facts on a speculation board, you seem to really get a kick out of spreading around this lie.

Yep. I believe I've read nearly every post on this thread and its predecessors. I don't remember one person who claimed to be "convinced" there would be an announcement. Most were hoping for an announcement.

I hope we get an announcement this afternoon. That doesn't mean I think it's likely.

 

[InCali]

For what it's worth, I STILL don't think there is an agreement (I have a feeling anyway ) and don't think there will be one in the near future (unless Fox wises up and gets what they can because every passing day means FF is worth less and less). Marvel doesn't need, and probably wouldn't use, FF before 2020/2021 anyway as they have a (more than) full slate for the next three years. I've wondered if Marvel's Inhumans slot had anything to do with hope that the FF would be back. I would have loved a FF/Inhumans movie, but that doesn't seem likely now.

EDIT: Oh yeah....I've asked this before. What if Fox did some cheapo 5M (pulled that number out of the air) FF movie or something like that? We don't really know the details of the agreement. Right?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

For what it's worth, I STILL don't think there is an agreement (I have a feeling anyway ) and don't think there will be one in the near future (unless Fox wises up and gets what they can because every passing day means FF is worth less and less). Marvel doesn't need, and probably wouldn't use, FF before 2020/2021 anyway as they have a (more than) full slate for the next three years. I've wondered if Marvel's Inhumans slot had anything to do with hope that the FF would be back. I would have loved a FF/Inhumans movie, but that doesn't seem likely now.

EDIT: Oh yeah....I've asked this before. What if Fox did some cheapo 5M (pulled that number out of the air) FF movie or something like that? We don't really know the details of the agreement. Right?

We don't know the exact details, but we have been told there is a 'quality clause' that would prevent Fox from doing another Corman.

I think if Fox tries to do anything less than $100 million, Disney's lawyers would get involved. There's a good chance (based on the quality clause for the Theme parks and a presumably similar agreement on the films) that Disney could have a legal case just based on the last film, but probably won't take legal action unless things really start to go off the rails.

And as for where things stand, I don't think they currently have an agreement, but I think something is likely to happen within the next two years - with Fox rather than Marvel pushing to get it done sooner rather than later.

 

[Spiderine]

In a world that is about to see a couple of Justice League films and a massive Avengers ensemble film that will feature nearly every MCU character under the sun can you imagine FOX releasing another sad pathetic FF film on the cheap?

The only reason I continue to see FOX sit on this property is to keep trading characters for Negasonic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle type deals. We will trade you Silver Surfer for this that and the other. We want to change this person's powers. We want permission to use this guy in this film. ETC.....etc.......That can only continue for so long though.

 

[Dark Raven]

In a world that is about to see a couple of Justice League films and a massive Avengers ensemble film that will feature nearly every MCU character under the sun can you imagine FOX releasing another sad pathetic FF film on the cheap?

The only reason I continue to see FOX sit on this property is to keep trading characters for Negasonic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle type deals. We will trade you Silver Surfer for this that and the other. We want to change this person's powers. We want permission to use this guy in this film. ETC.....etc.......That can only continue for so long though.

But could you imagine them doing it the first time? It's not like it was only after 2015 that all these big movies started happening. There were already 2 Avengers films by the time Fant4stic came out, yet Fox were idiotic enough to not only make it but release it.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

In a world that is about to see a couple of Justice League films and a massive Avengers ensemble film that will feature nearly every MCU character under the sun can you imagine FOX releasing another sad pathetic FF film on the cheap?

The only reason I continue to see FOX sit on this property is to keep trading characters for Negasonic Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle type deals. We will trade you Silver Surfer for this that and the other. We want to change this person's powers. We want permission to use this guy in this film. ETC.....etc.......That can only continue for so long though.

Right. Fox's valuable property is X-Men and I suspect Fox will try to get whatever they can to strengthen X-Men. If they can get characters and/or merchandising and/or a lower cut for Marvel on X-Men and/or TV rights etc. etc. etc. those kind of things would seem a lot more valuable to them than FF.

Kang, Galactus and Silver Surfer for TV rights? That wouldn't be crazy. But Fox will probably be careful to not give up too much piecemeal, or they risk giving Marvel everything they want while being left holding a husk of the FF.

 

[Spiderine]

But could you imagine them doing it the first time? It's not like it was only after 2015 that all these big movies started happening. There were already 2 Avengers films by the time Fant4stic came out, yet Fox were idiotic enough to not only make it but release it.

Fox thought they could do two things when they greenlit that travesty.

Extend the rights of the contract.

And make a minimal enough profit by turning it into Chronicle 2. And perhaps leading to a sequel.

And then they saw the final results of a disastrous film and tried to put a band aid on it. Which bloated the cost. They were simply being petty about losing the property to Marvel. They could never repeat that mistake again now.

 

[wobbly]

EDIT: Oh yeah....I've asked this before. What if Fox did some cheapo 5M (pulled that number out of the air) FF movie or something like that? We don't really know the details of the agreement. Right?

Not sure who said it (might have been Avi arid) but after the Corman mess and they dealt with Fox it was ensured that whatever they make has to be given a 'wide theatrical release', so they kinda have to invest a good chunk of change whether they want to or not. Knocking out a Corman and showing it in a few theatres won't satisfy the t&c's.

The 'quality control' thing is evidently somewhat ambiguous/limited given some of the woeful efforts we have seen in the past.

 

[wobbly]

Right. Fox's valuable property is X-Men and I suspect Fox will try to get whatever they can to strengthen X-Men. If they can get characters and/or merchandising and/or a lower cut for Marvel on X-Men and/or TV rights etc. etc. etc. those kind of things would seem a lot more valuable to them than FF.

Kang, Galactus and Silver Surfer for TV rights? That wouldn't be crazy. But Fox will probably be careful to not give up too much piecemeal, or they risk giving Marvel everything they want while being left holding a husk of the FF.

They have put themselves in a pickle regardless: They can't use any FF villains in anything but FF films. And making another FF film is something even optimistic Fox shareholders would look upon with great concern.

So, if we assume Fox will not try again, anything FF is of no use to them anyway.

I'd grant they will be aware of the value of the 'package' to Marvel, but they must also know that in their hands that package is a busted flush and they have no chips left to play the next hand.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yep. I believe I've read nearly every post on this thread and its predecessors. I don't remember one person who claimed to be "convinced" there would be an announcement. Most were hoping for an announcement.

I hope we get an announcement this afternoon. That doesn't mean I think it's likely.

It was a lot more than just hoping for it.

 

[Zarex]

It was a lot more than just hoping for it.

Prove it.

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean going by the majority of your posts here, Disney and Fox already made a deal post Fant4stic. That's been your whole narrative.

 

[Xeno]

It was a lot more than just hoping for it.

What's it to you? The vast majority of threads on this entire site are full of fan speculation about what we hope or wish will happen in comic book movies. This thread is no different but you act as if the people posting here are doing something weird. You might as well go b**** at people who want Thor to wear his helmet or complain about Tony Stark giving Peter Parker his suit.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm a seeker of truth. I want Thor to wear his helmet as well.

 

[Xeno]

I'm a seeker of truth. I want Thor to wear his helmet as well.

Truth or blind devotion to style over substance?

Moaning about costume details is no different than speculating about the possibility of FF returning to Marvel Studios. You have the right to do that, no matter how meaningless others may find your obsession. We have the right to speculate, hope and wish for Marvel Studios to get the rights to the Fantastic Four, no matter how unlikely you or anyone else finds that prospect to be.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I'm a seeker of truth. I want Thor to wear his helmet as well.

I'm not sure if it's amusing or just sort of sad that you simply don't get it.

This is a party. It's like a New Year's party and we're waiting for the ball to drop - with the key difference being we don't know when it will drop. And that's not a problem, it's fun. While we wait we discuss and drink and laugh.

If somebody says: "Maybe the ball will drop tomorrow!" and you say "no it won't", you're not really telling us something we don't know or adding insight. You're just pooping in the middle of the party.

Fox isn't currently making a terrible film. That's something to celebrate. We're one day closer today to the reversion date (be that another week or another twenty years) than we were yesterday. That's something to celebrate.

This thread started four years ago. In that time, a terrible FF film came and went. A good FF film might still be twenty years away and we could see several more terrible Fox films in that time, but if that happens, I'm convinced the forces that have propelled this thread so far will continue. I've waited forty-five years for a good FF film. If it's going to be another twenty, I'm more than two thirds of the way there.

So you can sit down, have a beer and enjoy the fun... or you can continue to drop trou and poop on the floor.

I'd prefer the former, but either way, it will be entertaining. t:

 

[Dark Raven]

Fox dropped the ball on making a good FF movie.

 

[TheVileOne]

Truth or blind devotion to style over substance?

Moaning about costume details is no different than speculating about the possibility of FF returning to Marvel Studios. You have the right to do that, no matter how meaningless others may find your obsession. We have the right to speculate, hope and wish for Marvel Studios to get the rights to the Fantastic Four, no matter how unlikely you or anyone else finds that prospect to be.

Truth. I've never said you didn't, but that doesn't mean lies or false truths should be perpetuated either.

 

[Zarex]

I mean going by the majority of your posts here, Disney and Fox already made a deal post Fant4stic. That's been your whole narrative.

It's one thing to speculate about things that may or may not be happening behind closed doors in corporate boardrooms. It's quite another to repeatedly lie about what your fellow posters have written in order to support your narrative that folks on this board - the successor to the thread of the year, mind you - are delusional. After all, if it's not written in a press release it must not have happened.

You lied. End of narrative.

 

[TheVileOne]

I never lied.

 

[Zarex]

As for making things up, this thread has been doing it since we started. People were convinced the ball was going to drop and Fantastic Four with Marvel was all set at Comic-Con didn't happen.

Prove it.