The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[InCali]

Yeah, if they have the rights in time, I'd love to see them introduce Reed and Doom as two brilliant scientists who get involved because pf their brains.

I've always thought a flashback to when Reed, Ben, and Victor were in college would be cool. Kaboom Doom t:

 

[InCali]

It happened in the late 90s.

Never saw that......almost as stupid an idea as a new Crapformers movie.

 

[Spiderine]

It happened in the late 90s.

LOL......Even Daredevil can't believe what he is seeing there.

 

[Dark Raven]

Mother Doom: Victor, find a nice girl to marry and make sure she's just like me. I am not going to do your housework forever!

Doom: Yes mother, I have my eye on Sue Richards.

Doom: Mother, how is this for making her just like you?

 

[Kanon]

It happened in the late 90s.

LOL......Even Daredevil can't believe what he is seeing there.

Never saw that......almost as stupid an idea as a new Crapformers movie.

I loved the Claremont run. That's Reed posing as (trapped in the armor of) Doom BTW

 

[wobbly]

I loved the Claremont run. That's Reed posing as (trapped in the armor of) Doom BTW

Yup, that one was a fake out. so doesn't count.

In the more recent Secret Wars they were genuinely 'hitched', as in Sue did think she was his wife and Franklin & Valeria thought he was their Father, but that was Doom abusing his stolen Beyonder/God powers once again (he recreated them with no memory of Reed, whom he didn't recreate in any form on that Battleworld).

 

[Crimz]

Yup, that one was a fake out. so doesn't count.

In the more recent Secret Wars they were genuinely 'hitched', as in Sue did think she was his wife and Franklin & Valeria thought he was their Father, but that was Doom abusing his stolen Beyonder/God powers once again (he recreated them with no memory of Reed, whom he didn't recreate in any form on that Battleworld).

It was more like he found an alternate version of them who were lead by Johnny and Sue's dad as Reed didn't exist. It really showed his obsession when he basically took Reeds place.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

It happened in the late 90s.

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't that Reed trapped in Doom's armor?

 

[wobbly]

It was more like he found an alternate version of them who were lead by Johnny and Sue's dad as Reed didn't exist. It really showed his obsession when he basically took Reeds place.

Was it? How could Franklin and Valeria exist without Reed?

 

[Dasher10]

I've decided that if Fox manage to make a new FF film, I won't react with any feeling other than indifference. Getting angry still gives the film negative publicity. There's so much other Marvel stuff that I can afford to completely ignore a future FF film.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Hopefully they are still working on Gambit. If they can build a real X-Verse, they won't have any time or reason to continue screwing around with FF.

https://mobile.***********/JarettSays/status/819626387178823680?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[Kanon]

Yup, that one was a fake out. so doesn't count.

In the more recent Secret Wars they were genuinely 'hitched', as in Sue did think she was his wife and Franklin & Valeria thought he was their Father, but that was Doom abusing his stolen Beyonder/God powers once again (he recreated them with no memory of Reed, whom he didn't recreate in any form on that Battleworld).

It was more like he found an alternate version of them who were lead by Johnny and Sue's dad as Reed didn't exist. It really showed his obsession when he basically took Reeds place.

I thought they were actual survivors of the 616 universe (Reed wasn't there 'cause he remained on the escape ship). Not sure though, just read it really fast back then and I wasn't confused enough from the start

 

[wobbly]

I thought they were actual survivors of the 616 universe (Reed wasn't there 'cause he remained on the escape ship). Not sure though, just read it really fast back then and I wasn't confused enough from the start

From how I read it no-one but Doom, the Molecule Man, Doctor Strange (who faced and defeated the Beyonders) and the 2 sets of 'lifeboat' passengers survived the 'end' event. All other universes perished before 616 and Ultimate were the last 2 standing and were destroyed at the end of the first issue.

616 Sue, Ben, Johnny and the kids were apparently killed when Reed's lifeboat was damaged.

Now the power of the Beyonders was taken by Reece rather than Doom, but Reece, being insane, channelled the power through Doom so he could save what he could of the multiverse. Doctor Strange could also have taken the 'God' job, but didn't want it.

With that power Doom created Battleworld and its inhabitants (with multiple versions of many existing on the same world) from 'fragments' left by the incursions during the destruction of the multiverse. So it had elements from known alternate realities, and some new stuff too.

At the same time Doom created a false history in all their minds so they would be unaware Battleworld was only 8 years old. Only the aforementioned knew it was all a lie.

So the Sue, Ben, Johnny and the Kids he 'saved' were presumably the 616 versions who seemingly perished before Reed's eyes, with their memories altered to accept him as the husband and father.

 

[TheVileOne]

I hate reality altering shaking events where universes are destroyed then subsequently resurrected.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I hate reality altering shaking events where universes are destroyed then subsequently resurrected.

I definitely agree, but I would go further.

The writers (and their bosses) need to recognize they are short-term stewards. These worlds and characters aren't theirs to do whatever they want with and they should recognize the integrity of the characters as established by those who came before. They should act as a bridge from the past to the future and not blow up that bridge for short-term fun and profit.

They can and need to move the characters forward and allow them to evolve, but they should avoid the over-sensationalized events such as hokey 'deaths' (that we always know are temporary) and other crazy-stupid events.

When one writer jumps the shark, they're only forcing a future writer to unjump it and that generally just creates a jumbled mess.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

Hopefully they are still working on Gambit. If they can build a real X-Verse, they won't have any time or reason to continue screwing around with FF.

https://mobile.***********/JarettSays/status/819626387178823680?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Wait so is the "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel)" only exclusive Fantastic 4 in this thread?

X-men could use Marvel's help just as much as F4 and Spider-man and Daredevil could attest to that. And the issues with Gambit's script only cause more worry. I get that maybe focusing on one franchise would release the other but am I the only one here who's more of a X-men fan than a F4 fan, who would really love if both to went back to Marvel though?

 

[Orba]

Wait so is the "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel)" only exclusive Fantastic 4 in this thread?

X-men could use Marvel's help just as much as F4 and Spider-man and Daredevil could attest to that. And the issues with Gambit's script only cause more worry. I get that maybe focusing on one franchise would release the other but am I the only one here who's more of a X-men fan than a F4 fan, who would really love if both to went back to Marvel though?

Its simply that we recognise that the Fantastic Four rights have a far higher chance of returning to Marvel before the X-Men or Spider-Man rights will.

 

[wobbly]

Wait so is the "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel)" only exclusive Fantastic 4 in this thread?

X-men could use Marvel's help just as much as F4 and Spider-man and Daredevil could attest to that. And the issues with Gambit's script only cause more worry. I get that maybe focusing on one franchise would release the other but am I the only one here who's more of a X-men fan than a F4 fan, who would really love if both to went back to Marvel though?

This thread was created with only the Fantastic Four in mind, and originated in the Fantastic Four forum for that purpose (and the only thread to have survived when that section was cut)

That doesn't stop anyone from speculating on the X-Men, but in all honesty there was little to no hope of Fox giving them up in anything like the near future when this thread was created, and even less now they have the TV show expansion too.

A Fantastic Four reversion remains the far more likely possibility, especially after FFINO's spectacular failure.

Best (imo) to keep hope where its more realistically viable. X-Men might become possible someday, but it could be long time yet for them.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

This thread was created with only the Fantastic Four in mind, and originated in the Fantastic Four forum for that purpose (and the only thread to have survived when that section was cut)

That doesn't stop anyone from speculating on the X-Men, but in all honesty there was little to no hope of Fox giving them up in anything like the near future when this thread was created, and even less now they have the TV show expansion too.

A Fantastic Four reversion remains the far more likely possibility, especially after FFINO's spectacular failure.

Best (imo) to keep hope where its more realistically viable. X-Men might become possible someday, but it could be long time yet for them.

As more and more people grow hip to the fact that it's Fox that's making these mediocre to poor X-men and F4 films and not Marvel Studio's it may be easier to see them all go back than many would think. Especially if their box office continues to suffer. And with RR calling most of the shots now I don't think DP's sequel will be as good as the last one. Is the John Wick director even a DP/X-men/Marvel fan? It could easily be more like Punisher: War Zone then the 1st Dealpool film.

But at this point if the F4 franchise is closer to reaching that point, in no way am I opposed to it. I'll be celebrating along with everyone else when that day happens. Guess it would be nice to see a Wolverine wearing something other than black leather and a Apocalypse that could be taken seriously this lifetime as well. But thanks for the clarification @Wobbly and @Orba.

 

[Spiderine]

The biggest problem with the Xmen is that there are far more avenues for FOX to explore in terms of spinoffs and related films like Deadpool featuring all kinds of other mutant characters. They proved they could spend less on a film like Deadpool and reap a huge profit. Xmen is literally a universe all to its self. I really don't even think about that franchise reverting anytime soon.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

The biggest problem with the Xmen is that there are far more avenues for FOX to explore in terms of spinoffs and related films like Deadpool featuring all kinds of other mutant characters. They proved they could spend less on a film like Deadpool and reap a huge profit. Xmen is literally a universe all to its self. I really don't even think about that franchise reverting anytime soon.

Which is part of my problem with Fox. Most of the time it doesn't feel like they even know what the hell they have. If they did Gambit wouldn't have been their next spinoff choice. Or the fact that they still don't know what to do with that film. And Deadpool was pure luck that feels more like a broken clock being right at least twice a day. But if being cheaper with these films is the only lesson they've learned from the first Deadpool. Shouldn't we be still be concerned with those idiots going through with another Fantastic Four?

 

[Orba]

The big thing when comparing the Fantastic Four franchise as opposed to the likes of the X-Men or Spider-Man is profitability. When you look at the Fantastic Four its figures are going in only one direction, down. Each film has made less than the previous, by our estimate the last film may have been a $100 million loss for Fox. This makes the chance of Fox being willing to invest further in the property to be slim (I can't see anyone with a hope of a long term career at Fox willing to stick their neck out for it).

When you look at the other franchises still away from Marvel things look better. The X-Men franchise had its most successful film ever with Deadpool, they have 2 TV series in development, they have a Wolverine film coming out that will probably at least make a profit and they have a Deadpool sequel which has a chance of doing well. So while they may not be reaching the box office level of some of Marvel's productions (they quality and their continuity can be all over the place) they do well enough for Fox to be happy to keep spending money on it.

And with Spider-Man things are looking good, Sony have made a deal to let Marvel make the films for them so the chances of the next film being a success is high. Ultimately if the rights were to revert to Marvel it would probably happen due to some of the restructuring Sony have been doing to deal with their poor financial situation than anything that happened in relation to the film directly.

So while they all could revert (and hopefully will eventually) the Fantastic Four have the highest chance of it happening. Not only that I think most would agree that the Fantastic Four are the franchise most in need of being put into more capable hands, while the likes of the X-Men and Spider-man have had some respectable films made with them the same can't be said of the Fantastic Four.

And ultimately as Wobby said, this thread was started in the old Fantastic Four board before it was archived so most of the people here started on that topic, although we have been known to wander off into discussions on the X-men and Spider-man, and the Marvel rights in general .

 

[Dasher10]

I think it comes down to this. Fox care about the X-Men. Fox only care about holding on to the FF film rights but don't care about making a good FF film. Spider-Man and Hulk also did partially revert. Spider-Man is in a better place than Hulk right now so I think that Sony is less likely to sell the rights altogether compared to Universal.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Wait so is the "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel)" only exclusive Fantastic 4 in this thread?

X-men could use Marvel's help just as much as F4 and Spider-man and Daredevil could attest to that. And the issues with Gambit's script only cause more worry. I get that maybe focusing on one franchise would release the other but am I the only one here who's more of a X-men fan than a F4 fan, who would really love if both to went back to Marvel though?

Yeah, as Wobbly explained, this thread was originally created in the FF forum and it was specifically about FF (and since it was in that forum, there was no need to include FF in the title).

But now that things have changed and it's out in the main section and there are people who would like to see X-Men revert, I think it's appropriate to discuss that here too (along with Hulk, Namor and any other stragglers).

My personal opinion is I've just lost interest in X-Men and don't really care one way or another. Thinking back, I think I started losing interest after the second film. At that time, when there were very few other good superhero films, it was unique and fun.

Since that time, other films have come out and gotten better and better while X-Men just seems to repackage the same stories and characters in slightly different forms.

I think X-Men needs to be completely re-worked by somebody and we need to get some characters we can actually care about who have real personalities and aren't just part of a big mess.

I like the idea of a Gambit film and more Deadpool films and a Cyclops film and a Colossus film etc. etc. etc. because I think there are a lot of good characters there that have been wasted with the dull format Fox has created. I'd like to see a real, substantive X-Men world created with a variety of interesting characters instead of the same old mash-up Fox keeps giving us.

If Fox can do that, great, good for them. If Marvel can do that, great, good for them. If Fox continues to make boring films, I don't really care. There are plenty of other films for me to watch now, and I was only ever a casual X-Men fan.

 

[Flint Marko]

My personal opinion is I've just lost interest in X-Men and don't really care one way or another. Thinking back, I think I started losing interest after the second film. At that time, when there were very few other good superhero films, it was unique and fun.

Since that time, other films have come out and gotten better and better while X-Men just seems to repackage the same stories and characters in slightly different forms.

I think X-Men needs to be completely re-worked by somebody and we need to get some characters we can actually care about who have real personalities and aren't just part of a big mess.

I like the idea of a Gambit film and more Deadpool films and a Cyclops film and a Colossus film etc. etc. etc. because I think there are a lot of good characters there that have been wasted with the dull format Fox has created. I'd like to see a real, substantive X-Men world created with a variety of interesting characters instead of the same old mash-up Fox keeps giving us.

If Fox can do that, great, good for them. If Marvel can do that, great, good for them. If Fox continues to make boring films, I don't really care. There are plenty of other films for me to watch now, and I was only ever a casual X-Men fan.

Hit the nail right on the head. There's not a single superhero franchise as formulaic and tired as the X-men and as long as Fox is still the one making them, I have very little hope things will get better.