The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

[Dark Raven]

"what a revoltin' development" he says

I think the reason Ben Grimm only has four fingers is that he keeps on giving Fox his middle finger for their treatment of him.

 

[Endeavor]

i think the reason ben grimm only has four fingers is that he keeps on giving fox his middle finger for their treatment of him.

lol

 

[Dasher10]

This crossed my mind too,but it's way too optimistic right now.

I agree. I don't see the FF reverting until Avengers 4 is about to be released. 2019 seems like a good time for the rights to revert since that's when Fox will need to take another reboot seriously. I don't think that Fox will want to make another FF film. They'll just scrap it to spare themselves the embarrassment of failing a fourth time. It's like Sony with Ghost Rider. The films were so bad that they just gave up.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I would imagine Marvel may have contingencies in case they get the rights and if so, they might try to work some characters into Infinity Wars, but if so, I think those characters would have limited roles.

I'd be VERY surprised if the title was being withheld because of the FF, but I'd be a little less surprised if it was because of Galactus or Silver Surfer.

But realistically, they probably just don't want to lock themselves into a title (having nothing to do with spoilers) at this point and they're leaving their options open.

 

[InCali]

I would imagine Marvel may have contingencies in case they get the rights and if so, they might try to work some characters into Infinity Wars, but if so, I think those characters would have limited roles.

I'd be VERY surprised if the title was being withheld because of the FF, but I'd be a little less surprised if it was because of Galactus or Silver Surfer.

But realistically, they probably just don't want to lock themselves into a title (having nothing to do with spoilers) at this point and they're leaving their options open.

Can they actually use either of them without the permission of Fox or is it that you think Marvel - Fox might have made a smaller deal for side characters? I would think it would be all or nothing.

Also, and I've asked this before....might Fox just do some super low budget movie just to keep the rights? A drop in the bucket cheapo movie?

 

[First Avenger]

They already did that with FFINO so I would not be surprised by their reiterated idiocy.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Can they actually use either of them without the permission of Fox or is it that you think Marvel - Fox might have made a smaller deal for side characters? I would think it would be all or nothing.

Also, and I've asked this before....might Fox just do some super low budget movie just to keep the rights? A drop in the bucket cheapo movie?

They can't use them without a smaller deal, but they did at one point try to make a deal for Galactus and Surfer, and if you go here: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=521277&page=30
and start reading at post #728, you'll see there is some highly circumstantial, but still interesting evidence that something might have happened on that front.

As for a low budget film, we have heard from various sources that there are quality requirements that were written into the new contract when Fox obtained the rights from Constantin, and those requirements were designed specifically to prevent another Corman film.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

And another point on a cheapo effort - every time Fox makes a bad film, they degrade the value of the property. They've already taken it down to next to nothing at this point.

Another bad film would just make the rights even less valuable, so what's the point? Why would they continue to make an effort to hold onto and cheapen rights that are already nearly worthless in their hands? There would need to be some end-game. At some point they would need to want to make a real film, but that's nearly impossible now and would be more so after another bad film.

 

[InCali]

They can't use them without a smaller deal, but they did at one point try to make a deal for Galactus and Surfer, and if you go here: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=521277&page=30
and start reading at post #728, you'll see there is some highly circumstantial, but still interesting evidence that something might have happened on that front.

As for a low budget film, we have heard from various sources that there are quality requirements that were written into the new contract when Fox obtained the rights from Constantin, and those requirements were designed specifically to prevent another Corman film.

And another point on a cheapo effort - every time Fox makes a bad film, they degrade the value of the property. They've already taken it down to next to nothing at this point.

Another bad film would just make the rights even less valuable, so what's the point? Why would they continue to make an effort to hold onto and cheapen rights that are already nearly worthless in their hands? There would need to be some end-game. At some point they would need to want to make a real film, but that's nearly impossible now and would be more so after another bad film.

Thanks for the quality info. Another Corman movie....yeah, that was a weird one. Yeah. That makes sense, but what doesn't make sense (to me) is why Fox doesn't just but cait and run; that is, get what they can now instead of waiting and letting rights revert for nothing? Seems like they must have a plan or they'd do that....at least I would.

EDIT: Another thing, more than 7 years passed before the 2005 release of the FF. Why didn't the rights revert? Was there another negotiation in between? Where can you get info on this stuff? I didn't have much luck.

 

[Zarex]

For all we know, FOX has already cut bait and run. Marvel's compensation for allowing FOX to put Marvel branded programs featuring characters from the X-Men family hasn't been disclosed.

 

[InCali]

For all we know, FOX has already cut bait and run. Marvel's compensation for allowing FOX to put Marvel branded programs featuring characters from the X-Men family hasn't been disclosed.

I hope you're right, but, judging from your Avy, you might be considered one of those hopelessly, overly optimistic types. t:

I have that comic book BTW.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Thanks for the quality info. Another Corman movie....yeah, that was a weird one. Yeah. That makes sense, but what doesn't make sense (to me) is why Fox doesn't just but cait and run; that is, get what they can now instead of waiting and letting rights revert for nothing? Seems like they must have a plan or they'd do that....at least I would.

EDIT: Another thing, more than 7 years passed before the 2005 release of the FF. Why didn't the rights revert? Was there another negotiation in between? Where can you get info on this stuff? I didn't have much luck.

My general belief (and these numbers could be a little off, but they're close) is that the contract requires them to start filming a new film within approximately 7 years of the last film and release that film within 8.5 years of the last film.

They released Rise of the Silver Surfer in summer of 2007 which gave them until summer of 2014 to start filming Fant4stic and until the end of 2015 to release Fant4stic. And they met both those deadlines.

That would mean they would have to start filming the next one by summer of of 2022 and that would mean they'd need to green-light, hire a director and start pre-production in 2021... which isn't really all that far away.

The exact details of the contract haven't been made public, but we've observed bits and pieces along the way that allow us to fill in the gaps with approximations but not specifics.

 

[Orba]

My general belief (and these numbers could be a little off, but they're close) is that the contract requires them to start filming a new film within approximately 7 years of the last film and release that film within 8.5 years of the last film.

They released Rise of the Silver Surfer in summer of 2007 which gave them until summer of 2014 to start filming Fant4stic and until the end of 2015 to release Fant4stic. And they met both those deadlines.

That would mean they would have to start filming the next one by summer of of 2022 and that would mean they'd need to green-light, hire a director and start pre-production in 2021... which isn't really all that far away.

The exact details of the contract haven't been made public, but we've observed bits and pieces along the way that allow us to fill in the gaps with approximations but not specifics.

Yeah it seems to be that as long as they start production within the 7 years Fox are ok, with Fant4stic they started filming about a month before the 7 years were up. But it does seem that once they have started filming they get some sort of extension to the rights. This was probably originally meant to be for if something happened during the filming production which halted filming (an injury to a lead actor, a set burning down or something like that) but Fox seem to try to get every second out of the contract that they can. And of course the extension has to have some sort of limit, otherwise in theory Fox could keep the rights by just doing the very bare minimum level of work to keep the production permanently active.

 

[Spiderine]

My general belief (and these numbers could be a little off, but they're close) is that the contract requires them to start filming a new film within approximately 7 years of the last film and release that film within 8.5 years of the last film.

They released Rise of the Silver Surfer in summer of 2007 which gave them until summer of 2014 to start filming Fant4stic and until the end of 2015 to release Fant4stic. And they met both those deadlines.

That would mean they would have to start filming the next one by summer of of 2022 and that would mean they'd need to green-light, hire a director and start pre-production in 2021... which isn't really all that far away.

The exact details of the contract haven't been made public, but we've observed bits and pieces along the way that allow us to fill in the gaps with approximations but not specifics.

I am holding on to hope that the rights reverted early and they can start introducing characters be it FF or villains in 2019/2020 just in time for phase 4.

I believe just like Zarex that they got something for those precious TV rights.....something FOX wanted badly. Just waiting on the launch of these shows before Marvel can do anything with them. Just seeing MCU Doom would put a smile on my face. The Loki of phase 4.

 

[Zarex]

I hope you're right, but, judging from your Avy, you might be considered one of those hopelessly, overly optimistic types. t:

You are not wrong

I have that comic book BTW.

I have it in reprint form in 1974s Giant Superhero Holiday Grab Bag.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

I just found an article on Newsarama that's kinda sorta related to Keeping Hope Alive.
Apparently Ike Perlmutter will be joining the Trump administration as a "key adviser".

http://www.newsarama.com/32650-repo...ans-care-as-part-of-trump-administration.html

Politics aside, if true, this could mean that Perlmutter would be too busy with this to be CEO for Marvel Entertainment. If breakdowns for the Fantastic Four rights fell short because of him, this news could be a good thing if true.

 

[Dark Raven]

What on earth is he going to advise Trump on?

I don't know if he would be too busy though. Kal Pen was in Obama's administration during his first term. He went back to acting though, even though he was coaxed back to the Whitehouse later. He's now in Designated Survivor.

So maybe Perlmutter might try his hand in politics, but could go back to what he was doing before. But hopefully that that won't be the case and he'll yield control to someone else. I don't know if that will also affect the TV division so that there's more crossover between the series and films.

 

[DyfeddRex]

^^The Trump action figure line of toys?

Does anyone know who has the rights to Alpha Flight? I'm hoping the rumors of Dinklage as Pip are wrong, and he plays a certain hockey related hero instead in the MCU. But, I'd say the odds favor pip over puck.

 

[InCali]

My general belief (and these numbers could be a little off, but they're close) is that the contract requires them to start filming a new film within approximately 7 years of the last film and release that film within 8.5 years of the last film.

They released Rise of the Silver Surfer in summer of 2007 which gave them until summer of 2014 to start filming Fant4stic and until the end of 2015 to release Fant4stic. And they met both those deadlines.

That would mean they would have to start filming the next one by summer of of 2022 and that would mean they'd need to green-light, hire a director and start pre-production in 2021... which isn't really all that far away.

The exact details of the contract haven't been made public, but we've observed bits and pieces along the way that allow us to fill in the gaps with approximations but not specifics.

Like my deal old aunt Petunia used to say "Was there a different agreement between the 94 and 05 movie versions?? Cuz that's like 11 years of clobberin' time.

 

[Orba]

^^The Trump action figure line of toys?

Does anyone know who has the rights to Alpha Flight? I'm hoping the rumors of Dinklage as Pip are wrong, and he plays a certain hockey related hero instead in the MCU. But, I'd say the odds favor pip over puck.

The exact details of Alpha Flight aren't known, the most likely situation is that "its complicated". The MCU has made mention of Department H while Fox had a version of the Hudsons in X-Men Origin: Wolverine. So the most likely situation is that Marvel have Alpha Flight but Fox have the Mutant members of Alpha Flight (along with non-Mutant with strong ties to Wolverine). Puck for example is probably with Marvel, he is not a Mutant, and while he is friends with Logan he is not an important part of the Wolverine back story in the way the Hudsons are.

 

[Orba]

Like my deal old aunt Petunia used to say "Was there a different agreement between the 94 and 05 movie versions?? Cuz that's like 11 years of clobberin' time.

Something from 1999
http://variety.com/1999/film/news/marvel-fox-pact-for-pix-1117491127/

Marvel, Fox pact for pix

With Marvel Entertainment emerging from its debilitating bankruptcy, the status of several projects based on Marvel works is becoming clearer: 20th Century Fox and Marvel have pacted to extend the studio’s control of the feature film rights to three projects based on Marvel’s “X-Men,” “Fantastic Four” and “Silver Surfer.”


While the three projects have been in development at Fox for several years, Fox’s rights to at least two of them were due to expire shortly; sources said that the studio’s claims to those rights could have been challenged as Marvel emerges from bankruptcy and merges with Toy Biz, the toymaker that holds the toy license on Marvel’s characters.


Under its deal with Marvel, Fox agreed to principal photography deadlines on the three projects, but since the pics have taken longer to develop and put together than expected, the studio was in jeopardy of forfeiting the years of development and money it has put into the projects. It’s understood that the extension lasts for at least two more years.


The good news for both Fox and Marvel, which has seen many projects based on its comic books succumb to budget and effects issues, is that Fox is currently in pre-production for a summer start on “X-Men,” which will be helmed by Bryan Singer and produced by Richard Donner and Lauren Shuler Donner. Fox intends a 2000 release for the superhero pic.


Fox next intends to go before the cameras on “Fantastic Four,” which it is actively developing with an eye toward a late 2000 or, more likely, a 2001 release. Chris Columbus’ 1492 Pictures and Bernd Eichinger are producing. Eichinger is also producing “Silver Surfer,” which is being developed as Fox’s possible third entry in the Marvel stakes.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Something from 1999
http://variety.com/1999/film/news/marvel-fox-pact-for-pix-1117491127/

I was going to say that since Marvel Studios didn't exist and Marvel just wanted to get films made, they were probably willing to let Fox continue as long as they were working on something, but that would have just been speculation. Your link confirms that was what was going on.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That also illustrates how long these things can take and how narrow a 7 year window is when you don't have a successful, running franchise.

While they may not announce films five years in advance, you can bet Fox has a five-year plan somewhere that lays out proposed major releases over the next five years or more.

If Fox actually intends to make another FF film, they should be penciling that in now and starting to at least think about what it's going to be and how it's going to fit in with other plans.

 

[wobbly]

Something from 1999
http://variety.com/1999/film/news/marvel-fox-pact-for-pix-1117491127/

I was going to say that since Marvel Studios didn't exist and Marvel just wanted to get films made, they were probably willing to let Fox continue as long as they were working on something, but that would have just been speculation. Your link confirms that was what was going on.

Yup. Marvel back then just wanted the movies made and gave Fox an extension which allowed them extra time for the FF. More on the winding road of the FF rights down the years can be seen here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080117183822/http://www.comics2film.com/FantasticFourArch.shtml

The days of letting studios off the hook when deadlines are looming are long gone now though.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

The days of letting studios off the hook when deadlines are looming are long gone now though.

This raises a very important point that we should probably spend a little more time thinking about and discussing.

If you think about it, in the history of the Marvel rights, there have only been two films made under the gun: The Corman film and Fant4stic, right? And both of those were absolute disasters.

Fox has been cranking out X-Men films without real problems, and Sony never had a problem making Spidey films (and when it became a little questionable, they made a deal with Marvel).

Daredevil almost got rushed into production, but Fox thought better of it.

So history tells us making a film under the gun with the rights reversion looming has been nothing but disaster.

With that in mind, will Fox really be foolish enough to try again in a few more years with FF in the state it's in?

Logic would say 'no', but that's one of the elements that makes this fun to watch.

The only real question at this moment is: Will Marvel get the rights, or will Fox continue to absolutely embarrass themselves and show the world how foolish they are?

I'd prefer the former, but I do at least get some entertainment out of the latter.t: