The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 7

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They'd be legally obligated to do so, so it's not for nothing. Did Fox give up Daredevil and Elektra for nothing? No they darn well didn't. They legally had no control over the film rights anymore. Contractual law isn't nothing.

Ego/power set switches are a bit different than granting Marvel shared control of Fantastic Four and X-Men.

But Fox thought they would retain the Daredevil/Elektra when they made their Daredevil film. When that fell apart, they were stuck.

This case is different. Shareholders and management do not want to see another FF film, so that means management has a fiduciary duty to at least try to get something for the rights before they revert for nothing.

Feige's comments indicate Marvel recognizes Fox's predicament and they're just going to wait it out... or he and Marvel are simply posturing and trying to maintain a strong bargaining position.

I believe some sort of deal is likely before the reversion date because it would be worth something to Marvel to lock down the rights sooner rather than later and Fox should take anything they can get.

At this point it has to be a matter of Fox believing they can get more than Marvel is currently willing to offer. When Fox becomes convinced Marvel will never go higher than whatever deal is currently on the table (and it's Feige's job to convince them they're at that point) they have to take that deal.
 
Fox was going to make another Daredevil film set in the 70's, but their plan fell flat. And then the rights just reverted right back to Marvel.

Fox needed to make a Daredevil film every 7 years in order to retain the rights. I believe the same applies to Fantastic 4 and X-Men.

Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer came out in 2007, and they released FANT4STIC in 2015, just in time to retain the rights. If they don't make another film by 2022, the rights will revert back to Marvel, the same as Daredevil.
 
Fox announced 2 Marvel movies and removed another one

I think the Marvel movies Fox are producing are:

Mar 3rd, 2017 (Logan)
Mar 2nd, 2018
June 29th, 2018
Nov 2nd, 2018 (Added)
Feb 14th, 2019 (Added, presumably Deadpool 2 or 3)

Removed:

Oct 6th, 2017 (Presumably Gambit)

No idea about the 3 they have for 2018, could be X-Force, New Mutants, XMen Apocalypse sequel, or Fan4stic 2. They all sound horrible sans Deadpool sequel(s).

Fox was going to make another Daredevil film set in the 70's, but their plan fell flat. And then the rights just reverted right back to Marvel.

Fox needed to make a Daredevil film every 7 years in order to retain the rights. I believe the same applies to Fantastic 4 and X-Men.

Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer came out in 2007, and they released FANT4STIC in 2015, just in time to retain the rights. If they don't make another film by 2022, the rights will revert back to Marvel, the same as Daredevil.

I think the XMen rights are similar to Spiderman's simply due to the fact of how popular XMen were back in the days.
 
The Spider-Man rights are a bit different. Sony needs a Spider-Man film every 5 years to retain the rights.
 
Yeah, I'm not totally sure about the X-Men film rights, but since that franchise consists of a large ensemble of characters, it's so easy to pump out movies every other year along with spin-offs.

By the time X-Men ever actually go back to Marvel, Marvel probably wouldn't know what to do with them. Fox has released 8 films so far and counting. And the longer it takes for X-Men to go back to Marvel, the harder it will be to incorporate them into the MCU.
 
But Fox thought they would retain the Daredevil/Elektra when they made their Daredevil film. When that fell apart, they were stuck.

This case is different. Shareholders and management do not want to see another FF film, so that means management has a fiduciary duty to at least try to get something for the rights before they revert for nothing.

How is it that different? Don't you think Fox thought the same when they spent $150 million or more on their last Fantastic Four movie?

Feige's comments indicate Marvel recognizes Fox's predicament and they're just going to wait it out... or he and Marvel are simply posturing and trying to maintain a strong bargaining position.

I believe some sort of deal is likely before the reversion date because it would be worth something to Marvel to lock down the rights sooner rather than later and Fox should take anything they can get.

Not really though. Marvel is doing just fine and they are very busy without Fantastic Four. They've proven they can turn c-list characters into A-list franchises now. There's no place to put Fantastic Four right now either.


At this point it has to be a matter of Fox believing they can get more than Marvel is currently willing to offer. When Fox becomes convinced Marvel will never go higher than whatever deal is currently on the table (and it's Feige's job to convince them they're at that point) they have to take that deal.

They actually don't have to do anything and neither does Marvel. None of that necessarily has to happen before the final reversion date.
 
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. FOX tried to get a DD movie into theaters and failed. They lost the rights to that character family. FOX received nothing in return. Are you thinking that was a good outcome for FOX?

They made a Daredevil movie and released it in theaters. They made an Elektra movie and released it in theaters. So they got something out of it. No it wasn't a good outcome for Fox at all. But they had an end date. They clearly had no interest in making a new movie. They dragged their feet on the reboot for years. They were clearly never serious about it. They had to legally return the rights, so it's no longer their film property.

When Watchmen got released, Fox still technically had a legal claim to Watchmen. As angry as it made the fans, the legal claim Fox had over Watchmen was sound. They were compensated for that and Warner Bros. had to settle with Fox so as not to derail the release. So they still got something out of Watchmen, even though Fox never really had an honest intention of ever actually making a Watchmen movie. However, the studio's legal claim of the property was still valid.

Fox will sit on this property as long as it takes.

So the cost of allowing a minor character a power adjustment is a living planet. Ego isnt Galactus, but he ain't nothing. And the cost for reopening the 1993 X-Men licensing agreement and extending TV rights to FOX was ......nothing. Got it.

It wasn't Fantastic Four.
 
It wasn't Fantastic Four.

What do think it was? Not saying I think it was the FF, as Fox have another chip they know Disney want (distribution rights for Star Wars EP IV), but given the trade for Ego it does stand to reason Disney wouldn't have granted that TV foothold unless Fox gave something significant in return.

If Legion is a hit you can bet Fox will be after more as well.
 
How is it that different? Don't you think Fox thought the same when they spent $150 million or more on their last Fantastic Four movie?

Of course not. The situation is very different now.

In 2013 Fox had only made two bad FF films that, arguably, just had the wrong director. Fans (including me) were willing to give them another chance. If they hired the right director and script-writer in 2013, they could have turned everything around and turned FF into a thriving franchise.

But they squandered that opportunity. They went from bad to terrible and did everything as absolutely wrong as they could. And they even, bafflingly, gave the fans a huge extended middle finger through the entire process.

When they released a film in 2015 that wasn't just bad but was one of the worst superhero films of all time, they blew it in spectacular fashion.

The company's total stock value literally lost billions with a huge, sharp drop directly connected to the FF reviews and Rupert Murdoch specifically called out FF as the reason for their poor year.

Fox%20Chart.jpg


As an FF fan, I went from cautiously optimistic in 2013 to the point that I will be furious if Fox announces a new film. I, and millions like me, will vent our anger all over the internet if Fox announces another film and it will be the ugliest thing we have ever seen.

Fox management has to realize that, but even if they are complete idiots and really don't understand fans, they'll just look at the numbers. Here are the box office numbers for each film in order:

chart.jpg


There is no way any vaguely competent Fox manager is going to stick their neck out and advocate a new FF film in less than five years.

And because they have no intention to make a film, they have a fiduciary duty to get anything they can for the property. Because of their gross incompetence, the property has close to zero value and Marvel can just wait it out and wait for the time that the rights will, inevitably, return.

So Marvel won't offer a lot, but if they offer $1 million and nothing more, Fox should take it.

Because there isn't likely to be much money on the table, the rights will likely transfer relatively quietly one way or the other.

But if, hypothetically, Marvel ever put $100 million on the table and Fox didn't take it, shareholders would be rightly angry and would have something actionable. If Fox management threw $100 million away when they had no intention to make a film, shareholders could take them to court for violation of their fiduciary duty and they would have a strong case.

It won't get to that point because Marvel would never put that kind of money on the table, but if they did and Fox management turned it down, that would be a blatantly incompetent action.
 
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Fox tried to make a FF movie in 2015. Bad! It was a disaster. They failed bigly. Trank had experience but it was all bad experience! :o
 
No, no. It was all just purely coincidence I picked his standard phrases and way of speaking. :o
 
FANT4STIC urged me to go watch the 1994 unreleased film to get the bad taste out of my mouth. I even started to appreciate the Tim Story movies a little bit.

How is FOX still interested in making a sequel to FANT4STIC? Aren't they embarrassed? Are they going to wait until shortly before the rights expire and just announce another reboot? Give them to Marvel already, for Christ's sake!
 
It wasn't Fantastic Four.

I will concede the point that Marvel does not control the live action rights to the FF character family in 2016.

What about 2017? Or 2018? Howzabout 2019 or even 2020?

I'm confident that both Disney and FOX will act as rational actors in the best fiduciary interests of their respective shareholders. And that the rights will revert in time for Phase IV of the MCU. We shall see.
 
Fox announced 2 Marvel movies and removed another one

I think the Marvel movies Fox are producing are:

Mar 3rd, 2017 (Logan)
Mar 2nd, 2018
June 29th, 2018
Nov 2nd, 2018 (Added)
Feb 14th, 2019 (Added, presumably Deadpool 2 or 3)

Removed:

Oct 6th, 2017 (Presumably Gambit)

No idea about the 3 they have for 2018, could be X-Force, New Mutants, XMen Apocalypse sequel, or Fan4stic 2. They all sound horrible sans Deadpool sequel(s).



I think the XMen rights are similar to Spiderman's simply due to the fact of how popular XMen were back in the days.

I don't think that they sound horrible. I think that the 2018 films are going to be Deadpool 2, New Mutants and X-Men 7. The 2019 film is going to be X-Force. I think that Gambit is cancelled and is going to be introduced in the next X-Men film.

And there won't be a sequel to FF. Fox are going to sell characters bundled with the FF rights back to Marvel one by one and then let the rights expire since they get more money/concessions that way.
 
FANT4STIC urged me to go watch the 1994 unreleased film to get the bad taste out of my mouth. I even started to appreciate the Tim Story movies a little bit.

How is FOX still interested in making a sequel to FANT4STIC? Aren't they embarrassed? Are they going to wait until shortly before the rights expire and just announce another reboot? Give them to Marvel already, for Christ's sake!

Officially, 'at this juncture' Fox will at least put up the front that want to pursue more FF films. As more time passes by (I wouldn't expect anything new on this for a while yet) this position will get ever more tenuous. If they don't deal while they can they will reach a point where they either have to go ahead with another effort, or resign themselves to letting the rights revert for nothing.

As ever, time will tell. I for one would be bloody amazed (and gutted) if any of the new 'Marvel' films they have announced is anything FF. They'd be better off sticking with the X-Men and all the various spin-offs they can seed from that, rather than throw more money away on the busted flush they have made of the Fantastic Four.
 
Officially, 'at this juncture' Fox will at least put up the front that want to pursue more FF films.

And Marvel will put up the front that they have no interest in FF, but I think both are bargaining positions. Fox has less interest than they let on and Marvel has more interest than they let on.
 
At this point, I'm more than sure that Fox will at least try to work out a deal that would allow crossovers with the MCU. I'm positive Fox would be aiming at that.
 
Yep. I think XMen is more similar to that than FF or DD.

Daredevil released in 2003 and I recall the dead line for that being in 2012 (the same date that Mark Millar announced being Fox's version of Whedon and promising to be more like the MCU).

Did Elektra count as a DD film? That came out in 2005 so it would be 7 years (same as FF's contract)
 
Fox announced 2 Marvel movies and removed another one

I think the Marvel movies Fox are producing are:

Mar 3rd, 2017 (Logan)
Mar 2nd, 2018
June 29th, 2018
Nov 2nd, 2018 (Added)
Feb 14th, 2019 (Added, presumably Deadpool 2 or 3)

Removed:

Oct 6th, 2017 (Presumably Gambit)

No idea about the 3 they have for 2018, could be X-Force, New Mutants, XMen Apocalypse sequel, or Fan4stic 2. They all sound horrible sans Deadpool sequel(s).

My best guess:

Mar 3rd, 2017: Logan
Mar 2nd, 2018: New Mutants
June 29th, 2018: X-Men: Dark Phoenix perhaps? Maybe a full on contemporary reboot?
Nov 2nd, 2018: Deadpool 2
Feb 14th, 2019: X-Force (Cable would have been introduced by then).

If any of them are FF I'd be utterly gutted tbh.
 
Daredevil released in 2003 and I recall the dead line for that being in 2012 (the same date that Mark Millar announced being Fox's version of Whedon and promising to be more like the MCU).

Did Elektra count as a DD film? That came out in 2005 so it would be 7 years (same as FF's contract)

Yes it did count.
 
Daredevil released in 2003 and I recall the dead line for that being in 2012 (the same date that Mark Millar announced being Fox's version of Whedon).

Did Elektra count as a DD film? That came out in 2005 so it would be 7 years (same as FF's contract)

Afaik Elektra did extend the DD contract. Afleck even shot a cameo for it that was cut.
 
Wouldn't the New Mutants and Xforce films count as Xmen films extending its contract? Because they are about to be real busy.
 
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