The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 8

[Web-Head]

I'm disappointed.

I think we all knew it wasn't going to be MCU related, not sure why everyone got their hopes up

 

[ADollarADay]

Disappointed to some of you bustas. As a gamer, I'm happy as hell. Marvel can do something that has never been done before, create a game universe working with multiple publishers and developers (technically Star Wars could do the same).

CD is a very capable developer too. And Marvel won't be tied by stupid contracts they did in the 90s, so the possibility are limitless (how about a Civil War with ALL the characters they can use? Yes please). Too bad the game is so far away.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think we all knew it wasn't going to be MCU related, not sure why everyone got their hopes up

I was hoping it might be a new FFcomic book or something else interesting. I have zero interest in a video game.

 

[Web-Head]

Personally, I'm excited for the game. There needs to be more Marvel video games.

 

[wobbly]

I didn't have any hopes up for the FF tbh with this one. If it was anything to do with them it might have been the comics or something, but never thought it'd be the films.

Figure whatever has or will happen bts we aint gonna know about it for a while yet. 2018 is the optimistic earliest expectation for some confirmation imo. More likely 2019 if it does happen.

Thing to remember is it does suit both to wait, even if a deal has already been done. FFINO is still getting regular showings on my movie channels....Best to let that turd sink well outta sight before taking another dip.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Why?

Because FF movie rights are equal to 2 loosely related X-Men shows

 

[Web-Head]

At least we have Derrickson saying he wants the F4 in the MCU and Gunn said trades happen a lot.

Maybe they'll make another trade for Silver Surfer or another character like that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

At least we have Derrickson saying he wants the F4 in the MCU and Gunn said trades happen a lot.

Maybe they'll make another trade for Silver Surfer or another character like that.

Yeah, I love every time an MCU director mentions FF or related characters. At least that means they're not dead and forgotten.

I'm content in knowing that the worst-case scenario is marvel getting the rights back in 4-5 years.

There's no reasonable, rational case anyone could make that would have Fox keeping them much longer than that.

And at this point, as time is ticking away, I'm starting to think Marvel waiting and getting the rights outright is preferable to doing any kind of sharing deal.

This time last year, I would have taken the sharing deal, but each passing day makes just waiting it out the better option.

 

[Endeavor]

I think they have them back already.

 

[wobbly]

Because FF movie rights are equal to 2 loosely related X-Men shows

At simple face value it seems an uneven bargain, but a look beyond the surface far less so.

Things to consider: How much are the FF worth to Fox now?

Forget theoretical/potential value if Marvel had them, and forget the big additional characters that Fox would lose as they are meaningless without a successful FF film franchise established to put them in.

Put a $$ cost on what Fox has quite frankly turned into a laughing stock and near $100million p#ssed down the drain.

Now think how much are the X-Men worth to Fox now?

How much could TV show expansion with them be worth? Its assumed it will be just 2 shows and that's it, but what if both do well and Fox want more? What if the new deal already provides for more? It's not like Marvel can make X-Verse related shows now they have conceded that potentially lucrative pot to Fox.

Doesn't look so uneven at all (imo), unless you have Fox valuing the FF far beyond where they have put them.

 

[wobbly]

Yeah, I love every time an MCU director mentions FF or related characters. At least that means they're not dead and forgotten.

I'm content in knowing that the worst-case scenario is marvel getting the rights back in 4-5 years.

There's no reasonable, rational case anyone could make that would have Fox keeping them much longer than that.

And at this point, as time is ticking away, I'm starting to think Marvel waiting and getting the rights outright is preferable to doing any kind of sharing deal.

This time last year, I would have taken the sharing deal, but each passing day makes just waiting it out the better option.

I suspect it's all or nothing with the FF after FFINO. Fox can trade before the deadline, or they can reboot, or they meekly let the time run out. I can't see Marvel giving them the same deal as Sony, or Fox asking for that tbh.

 

[Zarex]

At simple face value it seems an uneven bargain, but a look beyond the surface far less so.

Things to consider: How much are the FF worth to Fox now?

Forget theoretical/potential value if Marvel had them, and forget the big additional characters that Fox would lose as they are meaningless without a successful FF film franchise established to put them in.

Put a $$ cost on what Fox has quite frankly turned into a laughing stock and near $100million p#ssed down the drain.

Now think how much are the X-Men worth to Fox now?

How much could TV show expansion with them be worth?

Folks on these boards suggest that emotion, envy and embarrassment are the key factors in an FF deal when it all boils down to another "E" word - economics.

How much has FOX made on the FF family licensing deal? Absolutely nothing since 1995, and overall the company has lost millions on the franchise.

How much does FOX expect to make going forward? Again, nothing.

How much can FOX expect to make on X-Men branded television programming? For both the very promising Hawley and Nix shows? Tens of millions of dollars annually in streaming rights alone. And there is a very good chance the deal will involve additional programming.

Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

How much has FOX made on the FF family licensing deal? Absolutely nothing since 1995, and overall the company has lost millions on the franchise.

And still 22 years later....

 

[Zarex]

I should have said 2005, the year of the last FF film to warrant a sequel. But FOX has been open to a deal at least since 2009, when they announced the FF reboot the same day as the Disney buy out. And rumor has it that reboot did not go over well.

 

[Dark Raven]

Fox should've hired Edgar Wright to work on the first FF movie in 2005. We'd still be waiting for the first draft of the script and the rights would've already reverted.

 

[Web-Head]

[YT]9gIkjG84-jw[/YT]

 

[wobbly]

And still 22 years later....

And 22 years later (should count as 12 since 2005 was their first attempt) Fox's FF is a classic example of diminishing returns.

FF1: Made enough to try a sequel.
FF2: Didn't make enough to continue that version of the franchise. Reboot announced 2 years later, another 4 to start filming it.

FFINO: Lost them around $100mil with zero hope of doing anything more with that version, and not in a good position for trying again.

Fact is Fox have never hit a home run with the FF, and likely never will. In their hands the only value the rights have do lie in a trade, imo.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

l
Fact is Fox have never hit a home run with the FF, and likely never will. In their hands the only value the rights have do lie in a trade, imo.

Maybe so but they didn't trade the entire FF for Legion & Whatever the new show is.

That's all I'm saying

 

[Dark Raven]

And 22 years later (should count as 12 since 2005 was their first attempt) Fox's FF is a classic example of diminishing returns.

FF1: Made enough to try a sequel.
FF2: Didn't make enough to continue that version of the franchise. Reboot announced 2 years later, another 4 to start filming it.

FFINO: Lost them around $100mil with zero hope of doing anything more with that version, and not in a good position for trying again.

Fact is Fox have never hit a home run with the FF, and likely never will. In their hands the only value the rights have do lie in a trade, imo.

And yet Simon Kinberg and others were still talking about making a sequel after the massive flop that it was.

 

[Zarex]

Maybe so but they didn't trade the entire FF for Legion & Whatever the new show is.

That's all I'm saying

The terms of the deal were not disclosed, so you have no idea what either side received.

 

[NotNickFury]

Yes. Which makes it just as ridiculous for folks to assume things like "I think they have them back already" or that if they were Marvel and had the rights, they wouldn't say anything.

So there's just as much an argument for saying we don't know as there is to pointless speculation when, as you said, the terms of the deal were not disclosed.

 

[Zarex]

There's a difference between saying "I think Marvel has the rights" and "I know they don't".

 

[Dasher10]

I feel like what Fox are planning is something like this. They're going to sell FF characters off piecemeal to Marvel to get better things for the X-Men films. Marvel already got Ego back. Fox are presumably going to sell characters back around 2019 in exchange for things like more X-Men TV series, X-Men animation rights and an agreement from Marvel to produce a certain amount of X-Men merchandise (toys, video games, etc) every single year. I'm guessing that what's going to return is going to be Annihilus and everything else related to the Negative Zone (Blaastar, Nega Bands, etc) before Guardians 3. I think that Doctor Doom will become shared between Fox and Marvel before Black Panther 2 enters pre-production. I also think that Kang will revert before the script to Avengers 5 is about to be written. What's going to happen is that in 2021, Fox are going to make a deal after selling back Annihilus, Doom and Kang to have the X-Men join the MCU in an event film that will merge continuities and make the X-Men's messy continuity involving time travel and numerous retcons sloppily glued on to the rest of the Marvel Universe (which is exactly like the comics).

We know that we aren't getting a Fantastic Four sequel before 2019. We know that Fox are only doing one Marvel film this year and we know what the next three will be next year. X-Force is likely for 2019 as is the Gambit spin-off and a film starring a recasted Wolverine. Fox have until 2022 to release the film. That means that the have to shoot in 2021 which means that they have to choose a director and do their casting in 2020 and have a screenwriter hired in 2019. If we don't hear anything next year, then the FF are going to revert unless Fox decide to rush production. I think that in 2019 we'll start hearing about what Phase 4 is going to be and that's when I think that Marvel are going to start negotiating with Fox. Fox are going to simply allow the rights to revert rather than risk another nine figure flop after they've already given away the FF's best villains and end Phase 4 with a huge crossover film. Marvel will have full, exclusive rights to the FF again. Fox will have the ability to add Avengers characters to X-Men films and TV series. Both studios get to keep their continuity and they keep their respective properties from getting stale after they've managed to co-produce a massive two-part film that will go down as the biggest cinematic event ever.

The X-Men TV shows are a test drive to see how well Marvel and Fox can cooperate. The endgame is the end of Phase 4 where in 2024, we see an adaptation of a story like Age of Apocalypse, House of M or Secret Wars. We'll hear about the rights reverting in 2020 which is when Fox must start pre-production work just as Fox need to start shooting in 2021. I think that in 2020, Fox are just going to take the paycheck. If Fox are smart then they'll build their X-Men universe up to be something like this

6 film franchises

X-Men
X-Force
New Mutants
Wolverine
Deadpool
Gambit

They'd do three each year and then complement them with two additional TV series

X-Factor
Alpha Flight

That's a nearly perfect X-Men lineup. X-Factor should be like X-Factor meets Fringe... with superpowers. Alpha Flight should be Northern Exposure meets Jag... with superpowers. Fox don't need the Fantastic Four. They have a big sci-fi series in a shared universe already with AvP. If Alien: Covenant turns a profit, I expect the Fantastic Four to revert that much faster. If it flops, then Fox may very well hold onto the FF as a backup.

 

[TheVileOne]

[YT]9gIkjG84-jw[/YT]

This is pretty much a clickbait channel

 

[Dark Raven]

The only way I could see an MCU/ X-Men crossover working without affecting each of their respective continuities and without it feeling like it's just added on is to adapt the original Secret Wars. The Beyonder could bring both sets of characters to the Battleworld where, in this adaptation, he could have plucked them from different realities for a cataclysmic battle.

There would be no issue of why no-one on earth has heard of the other or treats the other group differently because it wouldn't even be set on earth. You could also potentially have characters from different time periods too, or even alternate versions of characters.

They would still be able to return to their continuities unaffected afterwards.