The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 8

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I am not sure I completely agree with Fox being rudderless, they have taken chances with Deadpool and Logan and those chances have paid off, frankly it seems to me they have found a way to make good comic book movies with the X-Men have a far different feel to them then the MCU films.

Building on Logan and Deadpool would make perfect sense. The problem is, Hugh Jackman is done, and the whole time-line is all screwed up, so Logan is an end, not a beginning.

As for Deadpool, losing Tim Miller is a big deal (whether Ryan Reynolds and others want to admit it or not). The first Deadpool caught lightning in a bottle, but films that are that unique rarely have sequels that live up to the original. And when they do, it's typically because the creative team stays together and builds on what they started. (Kick Ass and Kick Ass 2 is a frightening example of how bad things can go when someone tries to follow-up a unique, stand-out first effort with a returning cast, but different director).

So basically, it's all about Deadpool and Deadpool's future is questionable. Maybe they've got a real plan for the other X-men, but I don't think Apocalypse did a great job of setting anything up and I can't see any solid direction or plan (and the whole time-jumping thing has created something of a mess).

Maybe they've got a solid plan, but I can't see where things are going and I'm not excited about the next film (and I have to imagine most casual fans feel similarly), so it appears rudderless to me.
 
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Building on Logan and Deadpool would make perfect sense. The problem is, Hugh Jackman is done, and the whole time-line is all screwed up, so Logan is an end, not a beginning.

As for Deadpool, losing Tim Miller is a big deal (whether Ryan Reynolds and others want to admit it or not). The first Deadpool caught lightning in a bottle, but films that are that unique rarely have sequels that live up to the original. And when they do, it's typically because the creative team stays together and builds on what they started. (Kick Ass and Kick Ass 2 is a frightening example of how bad things can go when someone tries to follow-up a unique, stand-out first effort with a returning cast, but different director).

So basically, it's all about Deadpool and Deadpool's future is questionable. Maybe they've got a real plan for the other X-men, but I don't think Apocalypse did a great job of setting anything up and I can't see any solid direction or plan (and the whole time-jumping thing has created something of a mess).

Maybe they've got a solid plan, but I can't see where things are going and I'm not excited about the next film (and I have to imagine most casual fans feel similarly), so it appears rudderless to me.

I think they could recapture some Logan's success with an X Force film, having it be an R rated film detailing a strike force that does the dirty work against threats to mutant kind using tactics the regular X-Men would not want to use.

I am also curious to see how Fox will handle the New Mutants, mainly because it will be a new cast of characters.

The thing I don't care about is a retread of the Phoenix Saga, I think I will skip that movie.

Its also far too early to judge Deadpool.

Frankly at this point I have more faith in any Fox X-Men project then anything DC is making. Fox just has sell the rights to FF back to Marvel and everything will be good.
 
In general Fox should be fine. I'm extremely disappointed Miller won't be returning for Deadpool, but that franchise/character is a license to print money at this point. I think the next big thing will be an R-rated X-Force film, which should put Suicide Squad to shame. Even though I'm not a huge fan of who they brought on board to develop it, I'd be shocked if it doesn't gross more then the next 90's set PG-13 X-Men film....As a huge X-Men fan I've literally got no care for that franchise in it's current state. New Mutants is intriguing, but it's tied to the main franchise which kills a lot of the anticipation for me.
 
I can agree with most of the last posts. Things for X-Men at Fox could go either way and time will tell. Just don't tell me I need to focus on all the good things that can be; even though I hope that happens.

One thing I don't agree with is that Marvel "wouldn't" do anything along the lines of Deadpool or Logan. I don't think they'd integrate it closely with their Avengers, GotG and whatever else they come up with, but if they see a market, I think they would exploit it and do a good job in the process of making a movie. What have they got to lose? X-Men movies already have a "Marvel" logo and I don't think it's like a lot of people get the difference. That being said, I'm fine with XFox AS LONG AS THEY BECOME MORE CONSISTENT AT MAKING GOOD MOVIES.
 
Things for X-Men at Fox could go either way and time will tell.

While we've all got nothing better to do than post opinions on here, that's the bottom line. Nobody can say "The next 5 X-Films will be great!" with anything other than pure faith, and nobody can say "The next 5 X-Films will suck!" with any solid argument.

Chances are there will be a few winners and losers in there.

As for Marvel, they may not do anything as gratuitously violent as I've heard Logan is, but the violence in Daredevil/Punisher should satisfy any reasonable person's blood-lust. If anybody needs more than that, I think that's on them, not Marvel.

And call me old-fashioned, but I think superheroes should have some restraint and not be murderers.
 
While we've all got nothing better to do than post opinions on here, that's the bottom line. Nobody can say "The next 5 X-Films will be great!" with anything other than pure faith, and nobody can say "The next 5 X-Films will suck!" with any solid argument.

Chances are there will be a few winners and losers in there.

As for Marvel, they may not do anything as gratuitously violent as I've heard Logan is, but the violence in Daredevil/Punisher should satisfy any reasonable person's blood-lust. If anybody needs more than that, I think that's on them, not Marvel.

And call me old-fashioned, but I think superheroes should have some restraint and not be murderers.

Right. Based on their track record, I have a reasonable level of confidence that the next 5 MCU movies will be well made, enjoyable movies (at least for most people). It wouldn't necessarily surprise me if I didn't particularly care for one of them, but if I had to lay money on it, I'd say I'll like GotG2, SMH, Thor, BP, IW, and CM based on what I've seen in the past.
 
And call me old-fashioned, but I think superheroes should have some restraint and not be murderers.
Very few films in the future will be like Logan, it's the exception not the rule. Certain stories and characters call for it at times, just as long as it's not gratuitous and loses its effectiveness. Curious to see how this plays out in the Puniher series.
 
While we've all got nothing better to do than post opinions on here, that's the bottom line. Nobody can say "The next 5 X-Films will be great!" with anything other than pure faith, and nobody can say "The next 5 X-Films will suck!" with any solid argument.

Chances are there will be a few winners and losers in there.

As for Marvel, they may not do anything as gratuitously violent as I've heard Logan is, but the violence in Daredevil/Punisher should satisfy any reasonable person's blood-lust. If anybody needs more than that, I think that's on them, not Marvel.

And call me old-fashioned, but I think superheroes should have some restraint and not be murderers.

I think it depends on the character: Deadpool, Wolverine and Punisher kill people, that is in their characters.

Now people got upset when Batman and Superman were offing people in BvS, but is because people expect Batman and Superman not to be killers. People were unhappy when the Thing became a government killing machine in FFINO and people would be upset if Spidey pulled out an Uzi and blew away a bunch of street punks.

Different characters have different limits and work better in different settings, some work best in light hearted settings, while others work best in darker settings.

The problem with FFINO is, it tried to put light hearted characters into a darker setting and it didn't work. A new FF film had to be a bit more deep then the first 2 films, but turning it grim dark was the wrong way to go.

I actually don't mind violence, as long as it serves a purpose, in terms of characterization, artistic vision or relevant themes.

Netflix Punisher explored the consequences of violence in a much more relevant way then say Punisher Warzone, which was just a mindless slaughter fest. I heard Logan handles its violence well in terms of important story themes. Sure Deadpool played violence for laughs, but its a comedy and can get away with that if done well.

Really its great to be a Marvel fan, if we can get dark serious stuff like Logan and really fun projects like Guardians of the Galaxy.

Right. Based on their track record, I have a reasonable level of confidence that the next 5 MCU movies will be well made, enjoyable movies (at least for most people). It wouldn't necessarily surprise me if I didn't particularly care for one of them, but if I had to lay money on it, I'd say I'll like GotG2, SMH, Thor, BP, IW, and CM based on what I've seen in the past.

I think the next Thor movie has a lot to prove, the first Thor was okay, but the second one was the worst film in the MCU. Its not God awful, but it is mediocre.

I am not looking forward to it, at this point.

The MCU has never had a truly bad film, but they have had some mediocre films.

X-Men in terms of quality is up and down, but Thor has just being mediocre the whole time, I think I prefer something that can hit some good heights, even if it hits some lows as well, rather then something that just stays at mediocre.

I think the next Thor film has as much to prove as the next X-Men film.
 
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Building on Logan and Deadpool would make perfect sense. The problem is, Hugh Jackman is done, and the whole time-line is all screwed up, so Logan is an end, not a beginning.

As for Deadpool, losing Tim Miller is a big deal (whether Ryan Reynolds and others want to admit it or not). The first Deadpool caught lightning in a bottle, but films that are that unique rarely have sequels that live up to the original. And when they do, it's typically because the creative team stays together and builds on what they started. (Kick Ass and Kick Ass 2 is a frightening example of how bad things can go when someone tries to follow-up a unique, stand-out first effort with a returning cast, but different director).

So basically, it's all about Deadpool and Deadpool's future is questionable. Maybe they've got a real plan for the other X-men, but I don't think Apocalypse did a great job of setting anything up and I can't see any solid direction or plan (and the whole time-jumping thing has created something of a mess).

Maybe they've got a solid plan, but I can't see where things are going and I'm not excited about the next film (and I have to imagine most casual fans feel similarly), so it appears rudderless to me.

This is pretty well stated. I'd also add that the whole decades approach leaves little to be excited about for the core X-Men. And New Mutants is going to appear to the general public as a total retread unless they have some unique GotG like appeal to them. Which I just don't see. I'll post a longer response later.
 
And New Mutants is going to appear to the general public as a total retread


How?


Name another superhero film with the gender & racial diversity of the upcoming New Mutant's movie? FoX should be praised for this one film if for nothing else at all.

A super hero movie with only one Caucasian male? It's unheard of.
 
I think it depends on the character: Deadpool, Wolverine and Punisher kill people, that is in their characters.

Now people got upset when Batman and Superman were offing people in BvS, but is because people expect Batman and Superman not not be killers. People were unhappy when the Thing became a government killing machine in FFINO and people would be upset if Spidey pulled out an Uzi and blew away a bunch of street punks.

Different characters have different limits and work better in different settings, some work best in light hearted settings, while others work best in darker settings.

The problem with FFINO is, it tried to put light hearted characters into a darker setting and it didn't work. A new FF film had to be a bit more deep then the first 2 films, but turning it grim dark was the wrong way to go.

I actually don't mind violence, as long as it serves a purpose, in terms of characterization, artistic vision or relevant themes.

Netflix Punisher explored the consequences of violence in a much more relevant way then say Punisher Warzone, which was just a mindless slaughter fest. I heard Logan handles its violence well in terms of important story themes. Sure Deadpool played violence for laughs, but its a comedy and can get away with that if done well.

Really its great to be a Marvel fan, if we can get dark serious stuff like Logan and really fun projects like Guardians of the Galaxy.

When I was reading comic books, they were governed by the Comics Code Authority.

As a kid, I hated the whole concept. I didn't need anyone 'protecting' me.

But the books I read as a kid were influenced by those standards, and now, as an adult, those are the characters I know. So when I want to see the characters from the comic books of my youth on screen, I want them to have the general characteristics I remember.

Obviously that's unique to my experience and everybody is going to bring their own experience and interests to it, but I'm just trying to explain my perspective as an old man.
 
I'd also add that the whole decades approach leaves little to be excited about for the core X-Men.

This is a huge problem for me (and a major reason that I had hoped they'd just start fresh with Deadpool). Who is where and when? It seems to be a jumbled mess. I'd like to see a world in which the characters coexist in one reality so they can interact and crossover and you're not thinking "wait a minute how old is he/she now?"

If they were working in one era, they could have events that cross films and that would lead to interest in upcoming films - because we'd know a little bit about the environment and events occurring around the main story.
 
I think the next Thor movie has a lot to prove, the first Thor was okay, but the second one was the worst film in the MCU. Its not God awful, but it is mediocre.

I am not looking forward to it, at this point.

The MCU has never had a truly bad film, but they have had some mediocre films.

X-Men in terms of quality is up and down, but Thor has just being mediocre the whole time, I think I prefer something that can hit some good heights, even if it hits some lows as well, rather then something that just stays at mediocre.

I think the next Thor film has as much to prove as the next X-Men film.

I think it has a lot to prove also, but I also think they got the right director and a lot of attention is being paid to it as it's important within the near future in MCU. That's why I have high hopes for it and believe it will be a good one.

As far as my least favorite MCU movies, it would have to be IM2 and 3 (other than Sam Rockwell who I thought was hilarious.....). To be fair, I've always been kind of a Thor and Doctor Strange freak.
 
When I was reading comic books, they were governed by the Comics Code Authority.

As a kid, I hated the whole concept. I didn't need anyone 'protecting' me.

But the books I read as a kid were influenced by those standards, and now, as an adult, those are the characters I know. So when I want to see the characters from the comic books of my youth on screen, I want them to have the general characteristics I remember.

Obviously that's unique to my experience and everybody is going to bring their own experience and interests to it, but I'm just trying to explain my perspective as an old man.

I grew up reading comics in the 80s and 90s, so things were a bit different then, darker stories started in the 80s, but there was a lot of goofy fun in that era as well, comics became too self serious in the 90s, to the point that people make fun of that era now.

Nowadays I think we have a good blend of the serious and the silly in Marvel today.

But heck, the 80s had a ton of violent action films, with protagonists who blew away a 100 mooks over the course of the film, so maybe I am just more desensitized to violence.

My point is, variety is the spice of life, so I like having a choice in terms of Marvel media I can consume to the dark and serious Logan, to the silly and fun Guardians of the Galaxy. I like both dark and light hearted stories, so getting to choose different stories with different tones to them is great, as long as they are all quality works.
 
I grew up reading comics in the 80s and 90s, so things were a bit different then, darker stories started in the 80s, but there was a lot of goofy fun in that era as well, comics became too self serious in the 90s, to the point that people make fun of that era now.

Nowadays I think we have a good blend of the serious and the silly in Marvel today.

But heck, the 80s had a ton of violent action films, with protagonists who blew away a 100 mooks over the course of the film, so maybe I am just more desensitized to violence.

My point is, variety is the spice of life, so I like having a choice in terms of Marvel media I can consume to the dark and serious Logan, to the silly and fun Guardians of the Galaxy. I like both dark and light hearted stories, so getting to choose different stories with different tones to them is great, as long as they are all quality works.

As opposed to today where we have John Wick who can do that in 15 minutes. I'm glad there's a lot of bad guys out there because if there weren't, they'd all be dead. :woot:
 
It's really not


New Mutant's - Mid-to-Late 80's (After Apocalypse's 1983)
X-Men VII - Early 90's

Deadpool & X-FORCE - Present Day

Logan - A possible future

4 different timelines. I can see how the GA could be confused. I loved Logan but I'm not sure how I feel about that timeline.
 
4 different timelines. I can see how the GA could be confused. I loved Logan but I'm not sure how I feel about that timeline.

It's not 4 timelines.


New Mutant's is the direct sequel to Apocalypse just a few years after with X-MEN appearances from Xavier & Storm. New Mutants live in the same house as the X-MEN and both movies are shooting at the same time in the same city.. so cameos from both cast could happen (You don't hire Sophie Turner & Maisie Williams and not have them interact).

X-MEN 7 is 8 years after X-MEN: Apoclypse but only a couple years after New Mutant's & releases the same year so there really shouldn't be any confusion but w/e.


New Mutant's answers exactly what people are complaining about... It fills in the gaps between X-MEN main series releases.


FC > DoFP > Apocalypse > New Mutant's > X-MEN 7

Very simple imo but hey

-------------------------

These next movies are all R Rated anyways so I don't see how ppl are confused

Deadpool II I don't see how there will be confusion. Nobody was confused watching Deadpool I.

X-FORCE will most likely be the sequel to Deadpool II (Deadpool, Cable, Domino, Colossus, Negasonic, etc). Cable's Mr time travel so if they want him to time travel to the 90's (which is exactly how it happened in the comics then it shouldn't be a problem)

Logan I view as like a X-MEN: The End type film the ending for Hugh Jackman, but just because it happened that way for him doesn't mean the franchise is over. Few years ago the narrative was that you can't do this or introduce that character because of the epilogue of DoFP. Thankfully that narrative was shot to hell now.
 
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4 different timelines. I can see how the GA could be confused. I loved Logan but I'm not sure how I feel about that timeline.

Really, when has Fox ever cared about keeping continuity? Strangely it kind of helps them to just not care, each film can take or leave what it wants.
 
Leo Zelinksy said:
They scream out their failures and whisper their accomplishments.


No matter if FoX makes great films like Logan, DoFP, FC, or Deadpool it'll always be Last Stand & Origins that gets brought up no matter what.

Keep in mind that this was a thread about the Fantastic Four, created in the old Fantastic Four forum, by fans of Fantastic Four. And there are no arguments. Fox screwed the pooch when it comes to Fantastic Four.

The X-Men get a lot of dislike from Fantastic Four fans as a spillover of that. I think a lot of the behavior you are describing and criticism against Fox and the X-Men would disappear if they lost the rights to the Fantastic Four.
 
Keep in mind that this was a thread about the Fantastic Four, created in the old Fantastic Four forum, by fans of Fantastic Four. And there are no arguments. Fox screwed the pooch when it comes to Fantastic Four.

The X-Men get a lot of dislike from Fantastic Four fans as a spillover of that. I think a lot of the behavior you are describing and criticism against Fox and the X-Men would disappear if they lost the rights to the Fantastic Four.

Agreed! I know I can't be the only one to watch a X-Men movie due to F4 rights. I badly wanted to see Logan and Deadpool in theater's but refuse to give Fox a dime as long as those rights are going to waste. The longer the rights stay in their possession, the worse it will get in my eyes. I still say Fox NEEDS Marvel at this point. I am so not sold on Deadpool and New Mutants at this point. Slick and Willie was right when he compared Kick ass to Deadpool. Losing half of what made you successful is NEVER good and Ryan Reynolds before Deadpool was box office super hero poison. I'm just not sold at all.
 
They scream out their failures and whisper their accomplishments.


No matter if FoX makes great films like Logan, DoFP, FC, or Deadpool it'll always be Last Stand & Origins that gets brought up no matter what.

Haven't seen Logan yet so I can't speak to it's quality, but for the most part Fox's filmography ranges from "pretty good" to "downright inexcusable". The "pretty good" ones are all formulaic and mull over the same story beats and themes, while the "downright inexcusable" ones are some of the worst in the genre.

So while I really do enjoy some of their movies (First Class and Deadpool at the top), Fox is still far behind Marvel (and even behind Sony) in producing genuinely great superhero films that I love. I don't like their cheap, dated aesthetic, I don't like their mishandling of their own continuity, I don't like how formulaic and tired the stories are, I don't like how little they care about the source material, I don't like how Simon Kinberg is still in charge.... I could keep going. The future is looking bright now that they have two genuine hits in both Logan and Deadpool, but I'm confident that for every one Logan or Deadpool, they'll crank out a turd like X-men Apocalypse.
 
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