The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread VI

[BatBat]

But I still don't like The Dark Knight suit. Just doesn't look "Batman" enough for me.

 

[JAK®]

What we constantly forget is that, when adapting a character to the screen, you need to do all you can to make him/her look convincing in the real world.

No, trust me, we don't. We can't ever forget it, because people keep reminding us.

 

[fire_rising]

No, trust me, we don't. We can't ever forget it, because people keep reminding us.

Good t:

BatBat, I'm not saying you should change your opinion. Your view on TDK suit is something a lot of people share. I'm at a bit of a loss because I only started reading the comics well after TDK...and I still don't really call myself a batman fan in terms of the comics (I've only read some Morrison and Miller adaptations). So my view on what is "batman" enough is far different from, for example, someone who started out reading the comics or grew up with Keaton's batman.

On an unrelated note, I wonder, if the suit does change, what Bruce's reasoning will be to change it. Will it be damaged? Does it not have enough protection? And, finally, where the hell is Lucius?

 

[Doc Holliday]

No, trust me, we don't. We can't ever forget it, because people keep reminding us.

Isn't that the truth...

I think the issue with the TDK suit is that it wasn't "Batman" enough because it became segmented. That hasn't been done in the comics. All the other suits--even the Schumacher ones--still looked relatively like your generic comic book Batman suit. But TDK brought the segmentation, and that was something practical, yet quite different. While I understand why it was done, I'm not sure I like that it was done. I'd prefer if we went back more towards the BB suit.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Isn't that the truth...

I think the issue with the TDK suit is that it wasn't "Batman" enough because it became segmented. That hasn't been done in the comics. All the other suits--even the Schumacher ones--still looked relatively like your generic comic book Batman suit. But TDK brought the segmentation, and that was something practical, yet quite different. While I understand why it was done, I'm not sure I like that it was done. I'd prefer if we went back more towards the BB suit.

The problem wasn't really that it was segmented, it was really with the coloring. The coloring of the suit highlighted the fact that it was segmented, and even drew attention to the individual pieces. If you make the bodysuit a more uniform gray, and make the chestsymbol larger and darker, the eye will be natural drawn to the darker area, while the uniform gray would mask the segmentation.

Aside from that, I think the other main issue was that the smaller neck really reduced the "toughness" in the suit. The BB suit made him look a lot tougher, and it was mainly because he looked so much bigger. If they could find a way to keep the thick neck and not lose the mobility the TDK suit had, it would be much better.

 

[hame4479]

Why is Batman's cape stapled to that building like that?

I think Joker played a prank on him, and Batman can't get off the roof. So now he's stuck there in badass pose because he doesn't want to be embarrassed.

And Batman did look like that.

In both movies.

That second pic down is just the perfect live action batman.

 

[CinematicESP]

I've said this before, but I really think the suit in TDKR will reflect the theme of the movie, and what role Batman serves in the story.

Begins was all about fear. Batman was a symbol of fear, so the suit was intimidating. It was all about him being a creature of the night.

In TDK, Batman is all about rules. His mission has become focused. His extremely practical suit reflects that. It's all about combat.

So what role does Batman serve in TDKR? Physical strength?

 

[michael]

If I was the head of the design team for TDKR, I'd say this: Design a suit with the theatricality of the BB design, and the practicality of TDK design.

...a nearly impossible task, it seems.

Spoiler

Here's my favourite look for a new suit. This manip was done by someone here on the Hype, but I honestly can't remember who did it. Hopefully someone here does remember so I can give credit where it's due...

 

[BatBat]

For me it wasn't the segmentation. It wasn't the colorization. It was the jagged, overly symmetrical plates. It looks TOO much like armor. I don't have any problem whatsoever with a real world Batman wearing armor. It just makes sense. I believe Jak will agree with me that it doesn't have to look so much like armor and still look pretty close to the comics interpretation of Batman. It's not hard. They just want to get complicated with it to "try something new". Batman doesn't need to be redesigned. Just made a bit more realistic than tights.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Spoiler

Here's my favourite look for a new suit. This manip was done by someone here on the Hype, but I honestly can't remember who did it. Hopefully someone here does remember so I can give credit where it's due...

This^^^^^^

A simple change in color tones makes the suit look so much better. Making the bodysuit a uniform gray and making the chest symbol more prominent tones down the harsh effect of the extremely symmetrical plates. Sure, it's still got the jagged look, but at least it's toned down. And to be honest, in motion the TDK batsuit's checkerboard pattern was less apparent. But do a simple color adjustment like the above manip, and it would be nearly invisible in motion.

 

[Chris Wallace]

To those wanting some sort of spandex-like material to stretch over the pads, do you guys have any idea what it would look like? Or how it would work?

THat particular approach would not work, IMO. The suggestion came from fans who are desperate to give some kind of justification for Batman to look like Batman. They are fed up with the black rubber and want big screen superheroes and supervillains to look like their comic book counterparts at any cost. Much as I would like this to happen, I fear it's too late where Batman is concerned. The rubber Batsuit has become permeated in the public consciousness, as 4 actors have worn some variation of it over the last 6 movies in 22 years. Hollywood doesn't believe Batman can wear cloth without looking like Adam West.

 

[Chris Wallace]

This^^^^^^

A simple change in color tones makes the suit look so much better. Making the bodysuit a uniform gray and making the chest symbol more prominent tones down the harsh effect of the extremely symmetrical plates. Sure, it's still got the jagged look, but at least it's toned down. And to be honest, in motion the TDK batsuit's checkerboard pattern was less apparent. But do a simple color adjustment like the above manip, and it would be nearly invisible in motion.

In my mind, that's more or less what he wears in the comics, underneath a layer of kevlar/nomex fabric.

 

[Infinity9999x]

THat particular approach would not work, IMO. The suggestion came from fans who are desperate to give some kind of justification for Batman to look like Batman. They are fed up with the black rubber and want big screen superheroes and supervillains to look like their comic book counterparts at any cost. Much as I would like this to happen, I fear it's too late where Batman is concerned. The rubber Batsuit has become permeated in the public consciousness, as 4 actors have worn some variation of it over the last 6 movies in 22 years. Hollywood doesn't believe Batman can wear cloth without looking like Adam West.

I honestly don't have all that much problem with the foam latex (or whatever they're made of) suits, I'd just like to see them adopt a color pallet a little closer to the traditional comic look. Normally I'm a fan of superheroes in darker colors...but I'm just bored of seeing Batman in a relatively similar look in all his movies. I'd like them to try something new in terms of visual athletics.

Though, technically TDK did try something new....just not the direction I wanted the "new" to go in.

 

[Infinity9999x]

In my mind, that's more or less what he wears in the comics, underneath a layer of kevlar/nomex fabric.

Agreed. That's what I've always imagined too. To get that look to work on film though, and keep his natural looking physique, he would need a much more form fitting armor under his fabric. That could easily be explained via pseudo science though. I don't expect it in Nolan's films, but in a later series it's certainly plausible.

I'd settle for a simple color adjustment like the above manip. If we got something close to that, I'd be ecstatic.

 

[Chris Wallace]

still looks better than this

Barely.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Despite their inherent aesthetic flaws, the Schumacher suits were really terrible because they in no way represented the people that were wearing them. Batman's suit is supposed to be a second layer of skin, it's supposed to reveal the Bruce Wayne few people ever see.

His movies' suits didn't do that. They were flashy, but they didn't sell because Batman doesn't wear his suit to look cool (though that is a side effect when it is done right), he wears it to look menacing. Look at those suits again...who would be scared of that? If you want to design a suit for Batman, you need it to look like it creates another persona...basically, it needs to look like a creature.

Tim Burton's films had a decent bat suit, but, in my opinion, it lacks the shape of an other-worldy creature. It had that quality Halloween look to it: It looks kinda cool, it's a bit intimidating, but you couldn't imagine being taken seriously in it. The cowl, especially, was far too rectangular in its design.

Of all of the interpretations of Batman's suit, at least in film, I'd say that the Batman Begins suit is the best interpretation. No particular detail, no more than one or two colors. Just the cowl and the cape. Christian Bale said it best when he felt that, wearing the suit, he was a panther of sorts. A hunter. That is exactly what Batman's suit needs to feel like.

Nolan's design team doesn't get enough credit with the cowl. Unlike Burton's design, Nolan's cowl is subtle yet multi-faceted. You can see the pain and expression of Bruce Wayne manifest itself onto the brow, the eyes, and the nose. The ears aren't too big, but they are still prominent.

Another reason why the BB suit worked so well was the physique of Bale himself. The way his face is structured, the amount of effort he put into training and fitness, it all paid off when you saw him in the suit.

So what happened in The Dark Knight? Nolan's design team kept the cowl and cape, but they decided that Batman needed to be more flexible. Batman needed to turn his head. He needed to be faster. As far as the reasoning goes, I understand completely. What we constantly forget is that, when adapting a character to the screen, you need to do all you can to make him/her look convincing in the real world. Nolan's suits worked so well because they blended into the real world while, at the same time, existing just outside of reality.

It's not about looking cool, it's about being believable.

Then again, I found both the BB and TDK suits to still be very cool...I don't see why they are bashed on so much (especially TDK suit). One main reason why TDK suit probably didn't translate well to people is because we saw a lot of it in the light, and Batman's suit works the best in darkness. We also didn't get to see a lot of it...period.

If I was the head of the design team for TDKR, I'd say this: Design a suit with the theatricality of the BB design, and the practicality of TDK design.

...a nearly impossible task, it seems.

Based on that argument, it would stand to reason that the armored aspect of Batman's costume shouldn't be as obvious as it has been in all 6 films. The obvious need for protection belies the intimidation factor, as it shows his vulnerability.

 

[Majik1387]

Considering the kind of show Batman Live is aiming to be, I wouldn't look at any of their costumes with movie costume eyes. Hell, look at how they butched Harley Quinn's image.

 

[TheBatman072]

Barely.

Too funny. Too funny.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I honestly don't have all that much problem with the foam latex (or whatever they're made of) suits, I'd just like to see them adopt a color pallet a little closer to the traditional comic look. Normally I'm a fan of superheroes in darker colors...but I'm just bored of seeing Batman in a relatively similar look in all his movies. I'd like them to try something new in terms of visual athletics.

Though, technically TDK did try something new....just not the direction I wanted the "new" to go in.

You can say that all you want. I have no doubt that if you saw a truly well-made cloth Batsuit, given all the time and effort that Acheson gave to designing Spider-Man, the result would be you reenacting that moment in "She's Out Of My League" right before Molly's parents walked in.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You can say that all you want. I have no doubt that if you saw a truly well-made cloth Batsuit, given all the time and effort that Acheson gave to designing Spider-Man, the result would be you reenacting that moment in "She's Out Of My League" right before Molly's parents walked in.

Oh, I agree, I think a cloth Batsuit could be done extremely well.

But my point is, I'm just asking for a more faithful color pallet. I gave up hope on seeing a cloth suit after BB. I'm keeping my expectations low.

 

[BatBat]

Considering the kind of show Batman Live is aiming to be, I wouldn't look at any of their costumes with movie costume eyes. Hell, look at how they butched Harley Quinn's image.

Exactly. It's a suit designed to allow for more movement for a longer period of time than a movie suit that they only do 10 to 20 minute takes on. I'm not saying it looks great but it's not as bad as you noob hangers are making it out to be.

 

[Chris Wallace]

No, trust me, we don't. We can't ever forget it, because people keep reminding us.

It's a strange argument, "look convincing in the real world". First off, we're not talking about the real world, we're talking about a movie. In the real world, the only costumes people put on to fight crime look like either this

or this.

Criminals don't walk around in scarecrow masks or clown makeup or with half a face in the real world. And what's believable in terms of a movie depends largely on the setting. Audiences had no trouble buying into a guy wearing this

because the parameters of the movie made it plausible. Nobody questioned whether somebody would wear something like this.

They just sat back and enjoyed the movie. The movie was good, so nobody cared if the tech was futuristic or if he was able to build it in a cave from a box of scraps. They got away with showing a man walking around in modern day New Mexico wearing this.

Honestly, has a movie ever failed because the costumes were deemed unrealistic? Or were the costumes cheesy along with the movie being crap in the first place?

 

[michael]

Spoiler

Here's my favourite look for a new suit. This manip was done by someone here on the Hype, but I honestly can't remember who did it. Hopefully someone here does remember so I can give credit where it's due...

This^^^^^^

A simple change in color tones makes the suit look so much better. Making the bodysuit a uniform gray and making the chest symbol more prominent tones down the harsh effect of the extremely symmetrical plates. Sure, it's still got the jagged look, but at least it's toned down. And to be honest, in motion the TDK batsuit's checkerboard pattern was less apparent. But do a simple color adjustment like the above manip, and it would be nearly invisible in motion.

That manip is not only a simple colour adjustment. You'll notice that it's a hybrid of the Begins and TDK suits. The subtlety of the amalgamation is one of my favourite things about that manip. Whoever did it is quite talented.

I also think that it's pretty damn close to what most of us want to see; A compromise between theatricality and function that fits with the template Nolan has put down for his version of Batman and is also not too far removed from the look of the comics.

 

[Infinity9999x]

That manip is not only a simple colour adjustment. You'll notice that it's a hybrid of the Begins and TDK suits. The subtlety of the amalgamation is one of my favourite things about that manip. Whoever did it is quite talented.

I also think that it's pretty damn close to what most of us want to see; A compromise between theatricality and function that fits with the template Nolan has put down for his version of Batman and is also not too far removed from the look of the comics.

This completley. I've been saying this for a while. It's fine if you want to make the suit appear practical, but you don't have to sacrifice the theatricality completley to achieve it.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Something I've noticed is that as the suit gets progressively further from the "creature of the night" aspect, so do the movies themselves. I'm watching "Begins" right now and in this movie, Batman maximizes his stealth abilities as well as the intimidation factor. He acted like a bat, hanging upside down, wrapping his cape around himself when he rested and taking enemies by surprise. He fought the way he felt a bat would fight, snatching thugs into the air. He subdued some in total silence. WHen he saved Rachel at the train station, the first thug was out for the count before she even realized Batman was there.In TDK he was a lot more visible and his attacks more direct. He would announce his presence before doing anything. He became more visible and the suit became less bat-like. The same thing happened last time. After the first installment, misdirection was abandoned in favor of confrontation.