The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR Batsuit Discussion Thread

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Eh, I wouldn't say fighters only ever use what they deem "practical" in fights. Cage or otherwise. Some guys just like to look cool, and in the case of UFC there are guys in there like Lyoto Machida and Anderson Silva that do completely orthodox and generally unrecommended techniques for fighting(such as spin kick, which are probably the most telegraphed a strike you can come up with and thus dangerous because they can be easily defended against if one is looking for it and you have to turn your back, you damn well better be fast or have your opponent stunned or distracted to set up for it... the Bat could do that, sure, but when he's in the middle of a goon dog pile it becomes a whole different ball game and quite frankly, in BB and TDK he's literally jumping into dog piles of goons and taking them out in the most energy efficient and effective manner for the situation), but so many of the rest of the UFC roster are training primarily BJJ or wrestling and striking becomes an addendum in their training they aren't expecting it. I mean, Silva knocked out Vitor Belfort with a front kick to the chin. That's not a normal application of that kick, it's usually a stunner. But for whatever reason he told people that Steven Seagal taught it to him despite it being a Muay Thai kick that Silva has surely been training since he was a kid. I've seen Cung Le use spinning back kicks for knockouts in Strikeforce, but again... no one in that arena is expecting that and it's a favorite of Cung's. It's not necessarily one of the most effective weapons in the martial artist's arsenal because it is so clearly telegraphed. And it's not particularly effective in close quarters either. The majority of knockouts in MMA come from fists or ground and pound. Even from experienced kickers. Why? Because that's the most effective means.

The BB and TDK fights aren't perfect, but to argue that they are boring just because you can't see what's going on because you can't pick it apart with an eye for martial detail isn't the fault of the movie.

I wouldn't call a spinning back kick impractical. I wouldn't even call it telegraphed if done right. I've landed it many times in training, tournaments and real fights. It's all about the individual's speed, mechanics, setting it up and effectively disguising it if done in the proper linear fashion (rather than the more circular approach many use).

Movie fights are movie fights. I never expect much from staged combat, I accept them for what they are.
 
I don't see how either of them resemble any animal, personally. They're just human head shapes with pointy little horns and red eyes.

Ive heard Azbats first mask being referred to many times as Cat mask and it stuck to me like that. Perhaps just because he has those tiny ears and virtually nothing else, idk
 
...

...............

Metal Gear Solid, directed by Christopher Nolan.

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I cried a little. :hrt:
You succeed just for posting that picture.
 
Would you care to elaborate or is your condescending facepalm smiley gonna be all?

And i kind of get the hate for Azbat's suit, but are you seriously hating on the classic suit, without panties nonetheless?
 
None whatsoever. Bruce Wayne never wore that suit and never would. I think you guys suggesting AzBat completely forgot about the entire point of the suit and what it represents. And Nolan doesn't translate costumes exactly from the comics anyway. If Nolan and his team were to make a more mechanical tougher batsuit, it would be of their own original design.

I wasn't really referring to the suit EXACTLY. I was more or less thinking the function, when perhaps going against Bane; and I'm also aware that Azrael wore it. :oldrazz:
 
Eh, I wouldn't say fighters only ever use what they deem "practical" in fights. Cage or otherwise. Some guys just like to look cool, and in the case of UFC there are guys in there like Lyoto Machida and Anderson Silva that do completely orthodox and generally unrecommended techniques for fighting(such as spin kick, which are probably the most telegraphed a strike you can come up with and thus dangerous because they can be easily defended against if one is looking for it and you have to turn your back, you damn well better be fast or have your opponent stunned or distracted to set up for it... the Bat could do that, sure, but when he's in the middle of a goon dog pile it becomes a whole different ball game and quite frankly, in BB and TDK he's literally jumping into dog piles of goons and taking them out in the most energy efficient and effective manner for the situation), but so many of the rest of the UFC roster are training primarily BJJ or wrestling and striking becomes an addendum in their training they aren't expecting it. I mean, Silva knocked out Vitor Belfort with a front kick to the chin. That's not a normal application of that kick, it's usually a stunner. But for whatever reason he told people that Steven Seagal taught it to him despite it being a Muay Thai kick that Silva has surely been training since he was a kid. I've seen Cung Le use spinning back kicks for knockouts in Strikeforce, but again... no one in that arena is expecting that and it's a favorite of Cung's. It's not necessarily one of the most effective weapons in the martial artist's arsenal because it is so clearly telegraphed. And it's not particularly effective in close quarters either. The majority of knockouts in MMA come from fists or ground and pound. Even from experienced kickers. Why? Because that's the most effective means.
The entire point to this conversation, was that You and Saint originally said that spin kicks aren't ever used in real fights, and are for show only. Plus, I find it ridiculous to try and debate what kind of kick is more energy efficient/effective, when not only is this a fictional character, but a movie. Why would we be talking about energy efficiency, when the actor playing Batman, is wearing a 50 pound suit? I think you're missing the point.....

Why would Batman use batarangs to try and take out enemies who have guns? Because he's a fictional character, and it looks cool.

How could he use a compact grapple gun to lift himself up hundreds of feet onto buildings? Because he's a fictional character, and it looks cool.

Why would Batman spin kick an enemy? Because he's the goddamn Batman, and it looks cool.

The BB and TDK fights aren't perfect, but to argue that they are boring just because you can't see what's going on because you can't pick it apart with an eye for martial detail isn't the fault of the movie.
I never once said that, nor did I allude that at all. My point, is that I want to see more variety in the fight scenes, besides punch, punch, elbow, punch. Hell, I'm not even saying we need spin kicks(I would like that, though), I'm just saying I want some variety.

Also, I said I would like the choreography to be better as well, because in some scenes, we would see enemies fall over, before Batman even touched them. Or maybe he was so fast, and I have such an untrained eye, that maybe I missed it?:whatever:
 
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Where should I start? They might good for comics but they will look stupid in movies. In the second picture Batman looks looks like Judge Dredd there. First one is like he's wearing pants. You did ask Earle.


Sorry.....
 
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Where should I start? They might good for comics but they will look stupid in movies. In the second picture Batman looks looks like Judge Dredd there. First one is like he's wearing pants. You did ask Earle. :o


Sorry.....
Dont apologize. I wanted to hear your opinion, and that's why i asked. :woot:
 
I wouldn't call a spinning back kick impractical. I wouldn't even call it telegraphed if done right. I've landed it many times in training, tournaments and real fights. It's all about the individual's speed, mechanics, setting it up and effectively disguising it if done in the proper linear fashion (rather than the more circular approach many use).

Movie fights are movie fights. I never expect much from staged combat, I accept them for what they are.

I wouldn't call it the most practical strike, particularly not for the kinds of situations Nolan is putting Batman in where he's beating on goons. Back kicks would be more functional in those situations than spinning, while wearing a cape no-less, in the midst of 5-10 goons all coming at him with knives, clubs/pipes and guns.

And the arguments that practical fighting applications should be sacrificed because the guy is wearing a 50 pound suit are ludicrous. The weight of the suit is an argument in favor of energy efficient and practical usage of the body for the situational demands. Not for doing bigger flashier movies. Mr Earle is saying he wants Batman more open in his fights! More open? You mean you want him to be sacrificing his guard so it looks "more natural?" That's insane, and not fitting with the tone of this franchise at all. The Bat suit is 50 lbs, the average soldier is loaded with at least 70 lbs of gear. Kevlar, ammo, whatever is on their belts. Do they incorporate open guard and spinning kicks(and a spin kick in a movie situation is always going to be big and showy and circular) in their hand-to-hand training? Not really, no.
 
No soldier also goes out into combat wearing large blankets on their backs. Should that be removed? Or should the character just fight from a distance to be safe?
 
No soldier also goes out into combat wearing large blankets on their backs. Should that be removed? Or should the character just fight from a distance to be safe?

I think you've missed the point my friend.

Thanks for playing.
 
I fully got your point. Practicality seems to be a crux of your argument. Well, that huge piece of fabric he's lugging around is detrimental to combat as a whole. Evidently there is a degree to which people are fine with suspending disbelief in order to maintain the visual integrity they'd normally associate with the character. It is not to say I'm in favor of over-the-top fancy maneuvers others may have suggested, but I'm not completely against some semblance of flashiness.
 
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The BB and TDK fights aren't perfect, but to argue that they are boring just because you can't see what's going on because you can't pick it apart with an eye for martial detail isn't the fault of the movie.


Not presenting a fight scene in an entertaining way. Yeah actually I'd say thats the fault of the movie.
 
No soldier also goes out into combat wearing large blankets on their backs. Should that be removed? Or should the character just fight from a distance to be safe?
The Sumerians and Hittites did.
 
Not presenting a fight scene in an entertaining way. Yeah actually I'd say thats the fault of the movie.

I found it very entertaining - but I will say there was a huge drop in quality between Begins and TDK.
 
Would you care to elaborate or is your condescending facepalm smiley gonna be all?

And i kind of get the hate for Azbat's suit, but are you seriously hating on the classic suit, without panties nonetheless?

I assumed he was referring to the fact that in that pic, Batman is drenched in blood as if he just pummeled someone to death.

we don't know that ....:huh::huh:

It's a fair assumption. He's gone through two suits and will probably get another.

But of course we don't "know" that...that's why the wink smiley was there Mr. Bond:cwink:
 
I thought most of the fights in TDK were good. The infamous Hong Kong-goon-throws-hands-in-air before-being-touched bit aside. When he takes out the fake-batmen and the mobsters early on and in maroni's club in particular. Also the half constructed building bit at the end, that was excellent.

Seemed fairly varied to me, and made me wince when he was dismantling people. Felt every blow. And whilst this is largely irrelevant and shouldn't be counted as a good thing just in and of itself, the fights in these two are far superior in a multitude of ways to those found in the previous Bat-film.
 
I fully got your point. Practicality seems to be a crux of your argument. Well, that huge piece of fabric he's lugging around is detrimental to combat as a whole. Evidently there is a degree to which people are fine with suspending disbelief in order to maintain the visual integrity they'd normally associate with the character. It is not to say I'm in favor of over-the-top fancy maneuvers others may have suggested, but I'm not completely against some semblance of flashiness.

Sure, practicality within the confines of what the guy is wearing. He's not going to be doing flying kicks, and a ton of spinning kicks when he's rocking a 50 pound suit of armor and a cape. The cape in particular is problematic for those kinds of movements. It's problematic period, but I think we see a pretty good display of a compact, tight close range fighting style with the suit and the cape that works and works well.

I was certainly entertained, and far more entertained by the fights in TDK because I can see them better than anything we saw in BB. I hadn't really noticed the Hong Kong scene guy getting hit before he's hit(maybe Batman has some kind of chi ball projection skill... he did spend an awful lot of time in China learning kung fu...:awesome:), but I never considered that one a featured fight. The fight part of it is so swift... it's barely a few seconds of fisticuffs, the rest is breaking glass, gunfire, explosions and a skyhook. The penthouse fight, the finale fight, and the opening fight all look great to me.

The BB fights were mostly cut so they never really had to show the flaws in the suit they used in that movie. Everything was so black and shadowed that you could hardly see it anyway, but then to cut into close ups turns it mostly into a black blur. And it was used effectively, to kind of show the ass beatings from the goons' perspectives I suppose. TDK is more like it's what Bruce sees. I imagine he's going through those fights much like Downey's Sherlock Holmes... picking these guys apart before he even leaps into the fray. With the exception of the penthouse fight... he caught a nasty sucker punch there.

Besides, I don't think Nolan thinks of Batman as flashy with his hand-to-hand combatives... he's direct and brutal. Which is fitting to me. Where the flash comes in is the gadgetry. Clearly Nolan has a love for Bat-gadgets. Especially the Batmobile. I'd like to see his Bat-shuriken used like shuriken though. Like we see in comics, lodged in the arms and hands of gun toting crooks.
 
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