The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread (NOT A LOUNGE) - - - Part 58

[BatLobster]

This might sound strange, but if Avengers ends up being touted as the ultimate superhero movie, I still think that's still good for TDKR's business. People might get more curious to see what it will bring to the table and how it will stack up.

Bring on Avengers hyperbole!

 

[redfirebird2008]

I guess what got me about the article is this notion that since Knight hit in '08, we've had nothing but realism/gritty comic book films, which is so far from the truth.

Besides Watchmen in '09, name the other dark and gritty/realism comic book movies that we really successful?

I can't think of any. If anything, since Knight, everyone's gone the OTHER way tonally.

And Watchmen wasn't even successful. $185m worldwide on a budget of $130m (plus marketing in the neighborhood of $75m) is what the industry considers a financial disappointment. Nolan's TDK is the only hugely successful dark superhero movie other than Burton's Batman. That's it. Two of them in 34 years of superhero movies.

 

[gorillanesthsia]

As the Joker came out of the hospital in that nurse outfit, I lol'd briefly, it just caught me off guard.

I felt bad because it was such a serious time.

HAHA

I laughed a lot.

I thought the Joker in the nurse outfit was a riot when he says "Hi" and makes that face to Dent, again when he says it was "nothing personal" and holds Dent's hand and then I laughed again at the delayed explosion.

I laughed when he the Joker mouthed... "...SIX?"

I always get a kick, even to this day when Joker crashes the party and is asking for Dent and looks at the guys face then walks away towards the camera and says, "No." with almost an eye roll.

I laughed at the "magic pencil" trick (after the first time seeing it) "IT'S..... gone"

 

[J.Howlett]

And Watchmen wasn't even successful. $185m worldwide on a budget of $130m (plus marketing in the neighborhood of $75m) is what the industry considers a financial disappointment. Nolan's TDK is the only hugely successful dark superhero movie other than Burton's Batman. That's it. Two of them in 34 years of superhero movies.

Bingo. But the narrative since actually Begins is that the genre has gotten too dark and I say that's hogwash. Marvel made sure that the genre wouldn't get dark at all.

As much as Spider-Man 3 was suppose to be the dark Spider-Man film, it never was. Both Punisher films are whatever.

You could point to Constantine and V for Vendetta as dark pictures but were they monumental successes? Nope. I love V but it wasn't a breakout hit.

So again, where's the successful dark comic book movies that's flooded the cinemas since Nolan took over the genre? I can't find them and that's my point.

That narrative has got to stop. If anything, the genre hasn't been serious enough.

 

[Boom]

The scene with The Joker and Two-Face in the hospital is hilarious. Ledger's delivery of "Hi" is comedy gold, and the "I Believe in Harvey Dent" sticker he is wearing gets me every time. I also love how he "forgets" Rachel's name, provoking Two-Face into a rage. Ledger's reaction is hysterical.

 

[Nevincer]

Ledger's delivery of "Hi" is perfect, and the "I Believe in Harvey Dent" sticker he is wearing gets me every time.

I'm ashamed to admit I've watched TDK dozens of times and never noticed this

Edit: Wow... I'm blind.

 

[gorillanesthsia]

Bingo. But the narrative since actually Begins is that the genre has gotten too dark and I say that's hogwash. Marvel made sure that the genre wouldn't get dark at all.

As much as Spider-Man 3 was suppose to be the dark Spider-Man film, it never was. Both Punisher films are whatever.

You could point to Constantine and V for Vendetta as dark pictures but were they monumental successes? Nope. I love V but it wasn't a breakout hit.

So again, where's the successful dark comic book movies that's flooded the cinemas since Nolan took over the genre? I can't find them and that's my point.

That narrative has got to stop. If anything, the genre hasn't been serious enough.

I agree with you, but try releasing a Batman movie Rated R. Or any other "comic book movie" that kids would know about it. The studios wouldn't have it.

In order to be super successful with Batman post-Nolan is to either take it to a whole new level of darkness or go in the opposite direction and allow room for super powers and weird characters like Clayface and Freeze.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Bingo. But the narrative since actually Begins is that the genre has gotten too dark and I say that's hogwash. Marvel made sure that the genre wouldn't get dark at all.

As much as Spider-Man 3 was suppose to be the dark Spider-Man film, it never was. Both Punisher films are whatever.

You could point to Constantine and V for Vendetta as dark pictures but were they monumental successes? Nope. I love V but it wasn't a breakout hit.

So again, where's the successful dark comic book movies that's flooded the cinemas since Nolan took over the genre? I can't find them and that's my point.

That narrative has got to stop. If anything, the genre hasn't been serious enough.

I haven't seen Captain America and Thor, but I very much enjoyed Incredible Hulk and Iron Man. I think Marvel is doing a very good job of balancing action, humor, and good storytelling. Granted, I thought IM2 was a dud. Felt like a cash grab sequel. But it sounds like Avengers is more along the lines of IM1 and TIH, so I'm looking forward to seeing it. WB needs to get their act together. They're lucky Nolan came along, otherwise they'd be even more up a creek in this genre than they already are. Green Lantern was an epic trainwreck.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

I'm ashamed to admit I've watched TDK dozens of times and never noticed this

What really? That's.....kind of sad. C'mon dude!

 

[Nevincer]

What really? That's.....kind of sad. C'mon dude!

Sorry.

 

[gorillanesthsia]

The scene with The Joker and Two-Face in the hospital is hilarious. Ledger's delivery of "Hi" is comedy gold, and the "I Believe in Harvey Dent" sticker he is wearing gets me every time. I also love how he "forgets" Rachel's name, provoking Two-Face into a rage. Ledger's reaction is hysterical.

Pure genius.

Especially how it goes from making me laugh to making my stomach drop when Joker puts the gun to his own head with Dent's hand.

 

[Boom]

I'm ashamed to admit I've watched TDK dozens of times and never noticed this

Edit: Wow... I'm blind.

The more you know .

It's handled so nonchalantly. It's brilliant.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I'm ashamed to admit I've watched TDK dozens of times and never noticed this

Edit: Wow... I'm blind.

And you consider yourself a fan? For shame!!!!!!

Spoiler

 

[gorillanesthsia]

I also like to think of it as a subtle jab to Harley Quin fanboys.

 

[Greens]

Pure genius.

Especially how it goes from making me laugh to making my stomach drop when Joker puts the gun to his own head with Dent's hand.

And then he soaps his hands before he blows up the goddamn place

 

[J.Howlett]

I haven't seen Captain America and Thor, but I very much enjoyed Incredible Hulk and Iron Man. I think Marvel is doing a very good job of balancing action, humor, and good storytelling. Granted, I thought IM2 was a dud. Felt like a cash grab sequel. But it sounds like Avengers is more along the lines of IM1 and TIH, so I'm looking forward to seeing it. WB needs to get their act together. They're lucky Nolan came along, otherwise they'd be even more up a creek in this genre than they already are. Green Lantern was an epic trainwreck.

Couldn't take Incredible Hulk after witnessing the deleted scenes and seeing what the film could've been. Iron Man is the worst of the lot. The other three are fine but definitely feel like set up films for the one we're getting this summer.

I can't really blame WB. While they haven't gotten to all their cast of characters yet, they've gone the "graphic novel" route in a few instances with positive results, which at least for me, balance out what they haven't done.

Behind the Dark Knight and Superman The Movie, I think Watchmen the Ultimate Cut is one of the best films of the genre. I will always defend Superman Returns. I think Constantine is a nice genre picture with some slick visuals. I think V for Vendetta was a zeitgeist film that's still very entertaining and a hell of an adaptation.

Yes, Loser, Hex, and Green Lantern (as much as it is a guilty pleasure for me) were not up to snuff but they put them out there. Marvel has some serious duds too.

I just think people tend to forget the imprint output that WB's done with their properties. Those are some good to great pictures that nobody ever talks about. Marvel hasn't even attempted to try anything like V for Vendetta or Watchmen.

 

[shauner111]

That also brings up interesting questions.

Would all of you guys want the franchise to go in a way more fantastical direction to make room for Croc and Clayface etc. or see what we can do with this more reality based world?

I say mix the two together. You can have Burton esque, Arkham esque aspects of the film while still having some serious stuff going on. With grittiness and realism that doesnt immediately make the fans think of Batman Returns.

I mean, Killer Croc/Clayface/Freeze? Go for it. A more serious Riddler/Robin/Penguin? Go for it. You can debut Black Mask and he can come off as a Nolan type villain. Then you can turn around and bring back Mr Freeze who is clearly a fantastical villain..but lose the puns/one liners, make him more serious and cast a great actor. and u have yourselves a great mixture.

A nolan meets Burton world is something id like to see.

 

[mad-sci]

What eveyone needs to realise is that by making a series of 'dark, serious' CB films, Nolan has achieved something that NONE of the Marvel films have done so far.

When Iron Man 1 came out, everyone's thoughts were 'What's the fight between him and Iron Monger gonna be like'

For Iron Man 2, it was War Machine and Ivanko, and how IM would beat him.

For TIH, it was the Hulk/Abomination fight.

For Thor and Captain America, it was the title characters vs. Loki / Red Skull.

For The Avengers, all everyone has thought is that ALL these characters would meet up in 1 film, but WHO were they fighting?


For TDKR, we have Bane and Catwoman. BUT the number 1 thought on everyone's minds is: 'Will Batman die?'

For every Marvel film including Avengers, the audience has always known that the superhero will prevail at the end. Its the action and story that everyone's looking forward to.

For TDKR, Nolan has made a Superhero a flesh and blood character that is capable of dying and making the general audience (not just CB fans, EVERYONE) CARE about a fictional character.

Think about that.

It may have taken 26 more years, but Christopher Nolan has achieved ON FILM, what Frank Miller achieved in comic form in 1986. THAT is the true achievement of BB/TDK/TDKR.

 

[Narsil]

A nolan meets Burton world is something id like to see.

The Arkham games are almost that, to me atleast!

 

[J.Howlett]

What eveyone needs to realise is that by making a series of 'dark, serious' CB films, Nolan has achieved something that NONE of the Marvel films have done so far.

When Iron Man 1 came out, everyone's thoughts were 'What's the fight between him and Iron Monger gonna be like'

For Iron Man 2, it was War Machine and Ivanko, and how IM would beat him.

For TIH, it was the Hulk/Abomination fight.

For Thor and Captain America, it was the title characters vs. Loki / Red Skull.

For The Avengers, all everyone has thought is that ALL these characters would meet up in 1 film, but WHO were they fighting?


For TDKR, we have Bane and Catwoman. BUT the number 1 thought on everyone's minds is: 'Will Batman die?'

For every Marvel film including Avengers, the audience has always known that the superhero will prevail at the end. Its the action and story that everyone's looking forward to.

For TDKR, Nolan has made a Superhero a flesh and blood character that is capable of dying and making the general audience (not just CB fans, EVERYONE) CARE about a fictional character.

Think about that.

It may have taken 26 more years, but Christopher Nolan has achieved ON FILM, what Frank Miller achieved in comic form in 1986. THAT is the true achievement of BB/TDK/TDKR.

It's interesting you mention this because, by Feige annoucing the next set of sequels, he's taken away any serious stakes out of the Avengers narrative. We know they'll make because the press releases for the sequels say so....

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

The stroytelling and depth of Nolan + the visual flair of Burton = Batman movie gold.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

The Arkham games are almost that, to me atleast!

According to Gill this is roughly the tone the reboot will go for.

 

[Narsil]

According to Gill this is roughly the tone the reboot will go for.

 

[arturo]

^ And the soundtrack by Prince

Spoiler

J/k t:

Spoiler

 

[Naked Shia]

I certainly hope the reboot's story will be better than the mess Dini wrote for both Arkham games.