The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread (NOT A LOUNGE)

[CapedCrusader14]

I feel like this trilogy works very much like the Star Wars original trilogy.

Batman Begins and A New Hope work very similarly, both films had a pretty definite conclusion that served the films well on their own (besides the Joker card). Lucas had no idea that Star Wars would blow up as much as it did, so the film had a pretty standard ending: good guys win, bad guys lose, everyone wins medals and everyone lives happily ever after. The film works well on it's own.

Nolan never planned on coming back for a second time, the card was just a little thing Nolan thought could be fun for someone to explore later down the line.

Fast forward now to ESB and TDK, both films that don't really need the audience to have seen the first film (not completely as true with ESB, but it wasn't really required for everyone to have seen ANH). They both start off with their own singular story, and have an ending which can easily continue into a sequel:

TDK: Batman on the run, consequences of covering up what Harvey did.

ESB: Planning to rescue Han.

Just my two cents on what jmc said. I watch it as a continuous trilogy, but I can always make the comparison to Star Wars.

BB and ANH: Stand-alone films.

TDK/TDKR and ESB/ROTJ: Two part continous story.

 

[redhawk23]

I'll be honest I've always considered Begins and TDK to be completely different movies, I know they're linked from a character perspective, but when you look at them back to back they don't mesh all that well as as single narrative. I can't even as a Batman fan be biased in my opinion and say this feel like one long saga like LOTR or Star Wars, it's always felt much more episodic to me and I think that comes down to Nolan's mantra of making one film at a time. I've got no qualms if people want to see it as this great epic story, but I'm never going to feel that way because I've felt it's never been approached in that way.

TDK is set up and summed up quite well by Gordon at the end of Begins, the escalation and all of that. As Alfred explains, by becoming Batman, Bruce crosses the line in a big way. But Begins, the introduction of Batman into this environment has several other effects as well, the amateur batmen and such among them.

The flow of the two movies definitely could have been helped by introducing Dent earlier on as they originally planned, but IMO I feel like the set up for TDK flows directly from Bruce's actions in Begins. They aren't even subtle about it, they outright state as much.


Not accusing you at all, but I think people get caught up way too much on the difference of aesthetic between the two films. The change in Gotham can be a bit jarring (even though I disagree that there's a complete disconnect in that regard, the city streets at night just by the looks of the pressurized sodium streetlights maintain Begin's amber) but that change in looks is not reflected in a disconnect in the story I don't think.


I think this third film will very much involve bringing together whatever differences there are between the first two films.

 

[Norek]

You know, without having any sources/rumors in consideration, I think one can safely bet the movie will be AT LEAST as long as The Dark Knight, if not longer.

Not only we're jumping an 8 year gap, which means we'll have to catch up with our familiar characters, we have to be properly introduced to the new ones as well. I feel the situation is similar to Batman Begins here, where the first act will be used to establish Gotham's current state and how the characters have been during those 8 years.

In addition to the 8 year gap, there's also the 3 month period in which Bane has been in control of the city, so that's a big time spam which I don't think can be contained in just 2 hours. If this was the second film for example, maybe. But here it's a bit hard to imagine it being done without feeling rushed. This is the conclusion to the whole saga. It's not SM3 or XM3 where they never stated those were supposed to be the final films or anything - here, we actually know in advance this film will be the real ending.

So I feel Nolan would take his time and give a proper conclusion to the whole story, a satisfying one, and won't risk it depending on some time constrains. That being said, if it's 2 hours, then I suppose those 2 hours will make TDKR the most intense movie in film history. t:

 

[jmc]

TDK is set up and summed up quite well by Gordon at the end of Begins, the escalation and all of that. As Alfred explains, by becoming Batman, Bruce crosses the line in a big way. But Begins, the introduction of Batman into this environment has several other effects as well, the amateur batmen and such among them.

The flow of the two movies definitely could have been helped by introducing Dent earlier on as they originally planned, but IMO I feel like the set up for TDK flows directly from Bruce's actions in Begins. They aren't even subtle about it, they outright state as much.


Not accusing you at all, but I think people get caught up way too much on the difference of aesthetic between the two films. The change in Gotham can be a bit jarring (even though I disagree that there's a complete disconnect in that regard, the city streets at night just by the looks of the pressurized sodium streetlights maintain Begin's amber) but that change in looks is not reflected in a disconnect in the story I don't think.


I think this third film will very much involve bringing together whatever differences there are between the first two films.

I don't deny that one films leads in to the other, but I don't feel like film two is a continuation of the previous movie. It's not just an aesthetics thing, to me the story of TDK never fits with the story from Begins smoothly, mostly due to Harvey Dent being the focus of the film, to me it feels far more episodic a series. That's not necessarily a bad thing, you can certainly look at them as one long story if you like, but I think for the most part these aren't meant to be seen as a one long saga, each film is trying to be it's own thing and that's what I've gotten out of it so far. But maybe Rises will be the bridge for both films so who knows, my opinion might change come July.

 

[Naked Shia]

I don't deny that one films leads in to the other, but I don't feel like film two is a continuation of the previous movie. It's not just an aesthetics thing, to me the story of TDK never fits with the story from Begins smoothly, mostly due to Harvey Dent being the focus of the film, to me it feels far more episodic a series. That's not necessarily a bad thing, you can certainly look at them as one long story if you like, but I think for the most part these aren't meant to be seen as a one long saga, each film is trying to be it's own thing and that's what I've gotten out of it so far. But maybe Rises will be the bridge for both films so who knows, my opinion might change come July.

I understand your point, and you talked about your feelings, which I respect.

 

[Nevincer]

The Dark Knight Rises is gonna feel anything but self-contained.

 

[Nevincer]

A friend told me the film brought him to tears.

Hey, were you talking about Avengers or TDKR here? If the latter that's quite a bombshell.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

The Avengers bought somebody to tears?

 

[Nevincer]

The Avengers bought somebody to tears?

You never know...

No, you're right. That was a silly question on my part. It was said in the midst of some Avengers chatter in the thread, though, and I guess I'm just surprised Bamfer only just brought up that he knows someone who saw TDKR.

As I said though, that's quite a bombshell... reveals that the ending to TDKR is bittersweet.

 

[Naked Shia]

The Avengers trailers brought me to tears indeed. It made me think it could be nothing more than transformers 4. Hopefully it might be a great movie.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

I think Bamfer was just being sarcastic.

 

[Nevincer]

I think Bamfer was just being sarcastic.

But then wouldn't it have been his friend's dog's uncle's owner that was reduced to tears?

 

[Naked Shia]

We'll all obviously be brought to tears when the ending credit will roll, because it will be like saying goodbye to old friends.

 

[Nevincer]

The Avengers trailers brought me to tears indeed. It made me think it could be nothing more than transformers 4. Hopefully it might be a great movie.

Eh... it looks [BLACKOUT]fun.[/BLACKOUT] I can understand finding the tv-movie and michael bayish aesthetics as offputting, though.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

But then wouldn't it have been his friend's dog's uncle's owner that was reduced to tears?

That's too simple. I think it was his

friend's
uncle's
nephew's
friend (Bamfer)

This means that it was actually Bamfer himself who was moved to tears. Brings it back full circle.

 

[The_Raganork]

At the risk of Bamfer coming for my arse:

I know someone who says he's seen Avengers and claims its actually their best effort yet both in terms of fun and story.

Edit: I should mention his exact words were that he was "privy" to a lot of the film at this point, so I don't know if he's seen a final product and I honestly didn't care to ask.

 

[Naked Shia]

Eh... it looks [BLACKOUT]fun.[/BLACKOUT] I can understand finding the tv-movie and michael bayish aesthetics as offputting, though.

Make no mistake, I clearly want to love this movie, and I certainly hope it's great. It's just that I've been disappointed by the trailers. But what matters is the movie itself!

 

[Nevincer]

Make no mistake, I clearly want to love this movie, and I certainly hope it's great. It's just that I've been disappointed by the trailers. But what matters is the movie itself!

Lol, notice you sigged Rogue_Agent's quote there. Bet he's humbled

But anyways, sure, I understand.

I don't really have much hope for team-up stories, I think when you mix asgardian gods, with mutants, iron men, world war veterans, hulks, and russian spies with handguns, not only have you got too much to focus on but lustre of the characterization and emotion is gonna be lost to some degree. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think given what Whedon's working with it's impressive. I could barerly see a Justice League film being any better.

But we should probably get off this subject, before like Raganork says, Bamfer bites our heads off.

 

[Naked Shia]

Absolutely.

Rogue deserves to be sigged. He's nothing but loyal.

Speaking about the ending of the movie, I said I think it'll brought us to tears, but I might add regardless of the tone of said ending. I'm sure I would be sad to see Bruce not finding peace, but I would also cry if he finds peace (thinking about it, he could find peace in death).

 

[The_Raganork]

It's going to be sad for me, to let Nolan go away from this.

I can only hope someone else comes along with respect to the characters and very interesting stories.

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Speaking about the ending of the movie, I said I think it'll brought us to tears, but I might add regardless of the tone of said ending. I'm sure I would be sad to see Bruce not finding peace, but I would also cry if he finds peace (thinking about it, he could find peace in death).

I know what you mean. Like tears of joy.

 

[Blue Sugar]

The Avengers trailers brought me to tears indeed. It made me think it could be nothing more than transformers 4. Hopefully it might be a great movie.

 

[jmc]

I don't think I'll be brought to tears, I almost did for TDK after Gordon's speech but only because he virtually summed up the very reasons I've been a fan of the character for the majority of my life, still gives me chills listening to it 4 years later. I will be sad though when the credits rolls because that's the end of this Batman, but even though the end will come the character is in a far better place now for the next person to come along and show us their vision than what it was 7 years ago. I think the greatest compliment one could give Nolan is that he's restored Batman to his place at the top of superhero films, and if anything has elevated him further. I'm quite confident now that Batman's place in cinema will be cemented after Rises and the character will be able to weather the inevitable superhero fatigue storm that's going to set in eventually. I think everything is going to be just fine.

 

[Nevincer]

I'm quite confident now that Batman's place in cinema will be cemented after Rises and the character will be able to weather the inevitable superhero fatigue storm that's going to set in eventually. I think everything is going to be just fine.

Man, I can't begin to tell you how much I hope for that outcome too.

 

[Blue Sugar]

Shedding tears is manly.