The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread (NOT A LOUNGE)

[Goku Goes Crazy]

edit: nvm. To the 'tusi!

 

[KRIM]

Gotta love referencing references without any context or clarification whatsover.

 

[John McGuirk]

There was a funny Chris Nolan reference tonight on 30 Rock.

Deets!

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

Actually nvm. Forgot we aren't suppose to veer to much off topic. I'll talk about in the 'tusi.

 

[Victarion]

I wish people didn't automatically assume those sides were fake for another movie because there wasn't exact dialogue and it sounded 'too cheesy'. As if we'd get real dialogue from the sides! I know some people bought them and they're posed somewhere though.

They seem to have forgotten some of the sides for The Dark Knight. One of them was the court scene at the beginning with Dent and the "fall guy" that pulled the gun on him. It was that scene-verbatim-without Dent or the fall guy's names. We had assumed it would be the scene where Dent was scarred with acid.

 

[shauner111]

(speculation)
The casting sheet with what seemed to be a young Miranda Tate /Talia witnessing at least audibly the death of Ra's Al Ghul's "great love." Of course, I'm hoping this scene will tie into Bane's background as well.

That whole idea of the League running a prison for those that they deem not worth killing but still somewhat dangerous to society seems like a good excuse for why they'd throw a son in for the sins of his father. And whether or not that is part of his backstory, I do think that is him climbing the walls of that well in the teaser. I have no idea when his charcter could have climbed out. It might be before Batman Begins or after. Bane could still learn how to fight and be a hoss in a prison, and maybe he helps some of his fellow prisoners escape, thus forming his own loyal gang out of these guys.

The prison also provides a good excuse for how Bruce could survive getting his face smashed in by Bane while Bane's taking over Gotham. Bane, whether from an alliance with the LOS(possibly Miranda) forcing his hand towards sparing someone like Bruce or his own arrogance, tosses him in there. Bruce taking so long to get up and out would even make sense. And the idea of Bruce hauling himself out of that pit in full Batman mode and stomping through a limp back to Gotham just strikes me as BA.

And I'm still figuring Bane for turning on Talia and the LOS. I figure this accounts for the change in the goal of Bane versus Al Ghul, Domination versus Destruction, the bit we heard about Miranda/Talia sneaking around with Gordon in occupied Gotham, and erases any of that doubt that Bane is his own man.

Ohhhhhh God i hope you are right. Great post. I always wanted to see Nolan follow up with the whole story of how Ras' wife was taken from him. Yes, Taken, let the Neeson jokes commence. But its just a perfect tie-in with finally bringing in Talia, Banes backstory and bringing things back to the first movie. Man im excited for this. I also think Miranda and Bane wont exactly be on the same page throughout this movie. You're right, Banes his own man. Shes gonna wanna handle things one way, him another

 

[Bat-Gasm]

They seem to have forgotten some of the sides for The Dark Knight. One of them was the court scene at the beginning with Dent and the "fall guy" that pulled the gun on him. It was that scene-verbatim-without Dent or the fall guy's names. We had assumed it would be the scene where Dent was scarred with acid.

That's awesome.

 

[KRIM]

They seem to have forgotten some of the sides for The Dark Knight. One of them was the court scene at the beginning with Dent and the "fall guy" that pulled the gun on him. It was that scene-verbatim-without Dent or the fall guy's names. We had assumed it would be the scene where Dent was scarred with acid.

That scene threw me for a loop because it was so early on in the movie. Also, there was zero set-up. Imagine my surprise and disappointment when nothing came of it.

 

[Brother Jack]

That scene threw me for a loop because it was so early on in the movie. Also, there was zero set-up. Imagine my surprise and disappointment when nothing came of it.

That's kind of one of the points of that scene, to play around with Two-Face's comic origin and play a bit of a trick with the fans.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

What ever Bane and Talia's back stories are, they will be directly connected to what Ras told Bruce in Batman Begins about how he had a wife and how she was taken away from him. I always forget about that scene, but it's going to be cool how Nolan finally explains that and shows how it connects with TDKR. Full circle!

 

[jmc]

I never thought about it as a trick, just a homage to the origins.

 

[jmc]

What ever Bane and Talia's back stories are, they will be directly connected to what Ras told Bruce in Batman Begins about how he had a wife and how she was taken away from him. I always forget about that scene, but it's going to be cool how Nolan finally explains that and shows how it connects with TDKR. Full circle!

That will annoy me because it immediately changes Ra's ul Ghul as presented to me in Batman Begins.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

That will annoy me because it immediately changes Ra's ul Ghul as presented to me in Batman Begins.

How so? I mean he talks about losing his wife in Batman Begins, so it's not a retcon. It doesn't change anything, it just explains it more.

 

[Victarion]

Its also not such a complicated addition *coughSandmancough*.

 

[Kane52630]

Something that was pretty obvious...

Brad Pitt, Nicole Kidman, Ben Affleck May Be Headed to Cannes--But No "Dark Knight Rises"

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

Its also not such a complicated addition *coughSandmancough*.

Sandman killing Uncle Ben was a retcon though, a big one, because it changed the story, so it was understandable that people were mad. Explaining Ras backstory about how he lost his wife in TDKR isn't a retcon though, because he briefly talks about in in Begins, but doesn't go into specifics. Now, did Nolan have all this planned when he wrote Begins? Of course not, but he isn't retconning anything. He's just explaining something that up to this point was a mystery.

 

[KRIM]

Sandman killing Uncle Ben was a retcon though, a big one, because it changed the story, so it was understandable that people were mad. Explaining Ras backstory about how he lost his wife in TDKR isn't a retcon though, because he briefly talks about in in Begins, but doesn't go into specifics. Now, did Nolan have all this planned when he wrote Begins? Of course not, but he isn't retconning anything. He's just explaining something that up to this point was a mystery.

I'm not so sure retcons are even necessarily bad, as there have been plenty of instances in which twists and misdirection ended up providing a really good story. The Anakin/Vader reveal being the most recognized retcon of them all.

 

[jmc]

How so? I mean he talks about losing his wife in Batman Begins, so it's not a retcon. It doesn't change anything, it just explains it more.

It's more or less a retcon to me because I don't believe from what was shown to us in Begins that particular Ra's would have turned to the LoS had he a daughter. So if what happens does in fact transpire I'll never look at it favourably coz to me it basically means we're talking about a different version of the character. But whatever, given films one and two feel almost completely different from one and other I'm treating film three the same way.

 

[Victarion]

Ra's only gave us his word. We don't know how good his word is. He could've been slightly unhinged before his wife died, and thus used her death as an excuse to fully immerse himself in the life of a vigilante.

 

[jmc]

Ra's only gave us his word. We don't know how good his word is. He could've been slightly unhinged before his wife died, and thus used her death as an excuse to fully immerse himself in the life of a vigilante.

Whatever, as far as I'm concerned all three films are self contained anyway so it doesn't really matter what happened in Begins anymore to me.

 

[Victarion]

They're not self contained though. Bane's seen attempting to out Dent.

 

[jmc]

Which more than likely won't require knowledge of film two to move the story forward. So yeah, it'll still be self contained.

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

I get where the "self contained" thought comes from, I do, but I will never look at these films as self contained, at least not to a strong degree, like you, where you claim you don't even care what happened in Begins anymore. I see this entire trilogy as a saga, with each new film building on the last. I look at the trilogy as several interconnected threads interweaving with eachother.

 

[Naked Shia]

I get where the "self contained" thought comes from, I do, but I will never look at these films as self contained, at least not to a strong degree, like you, where you claim you don't even care what happened in Begins anymore. I see this entire trilogy as a saga, with each new film building on the last. I look at the trilogy as several interconnected threads interweaving with eachother.

I agree with Goku. To me, those films are three parts of a great story.

 

[jmc]

I'll be honest I've always considered Begins and TDK to be completely different movies, I know they're linked from a character perspective, but when you look at them back to back they don't mesh all that well as as single narrative. I can't even as a Batman fan be biased in my opinion and say this feel like one long saga like LOTR or Star Wars, it's always felt much more episodic to me and I think that comes down to Nolan's mantra of making one film at a time. I've got no qualms if people want to see it as this great epic story, but I'm never going to feel that way because I've felt it's never been approached in that way.