The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 105

[craigdbfan]

Well even fake spoilers have to get some things right, I'm not entirely convinced, but he did have earlier posts fully explaining (maybe a little too much) the relationship between LoS and Ra's.

Right. I was just responding to what Deserena intially said and he then wrote he had misspoke and said the guy didn't call everything there fake.

I was just pointing out that the part about Bane, LoS & Ra's was right.

 

[Van Petrol]

Wait did we get some new news or something?

Just this from that movie site...

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=23594925&postcount=230

 

[AnneFan]

Batman's villains are so in your face and colorful that the only way to do them properly is making them scene stealers because that's their nature. Especially ones like Catwoman and Joker. They have outlandish personalities.

Exactly. It's how it is. All the characters are cool for their own reasons. Batman isn't the most loud, colourful character out there but he doesn't need to be. He's the best at what he does. People love the mysterious, brooding loner who doesn't want to be seen.

 

[kvz5]

TBH I think most viewers (specially critics) are going in expecting Bane and/or Catwoman to steal the show. I mean, how many "Will Tom/Anne Get an Oscar for Bane/Catwoman?" discussions have we seen even before we haven't seen a single picture/clip from the two? I highly doubt that it's going to change after they see the movie and that's fine with me as long as Bruce's story is not going to be sacrificed and from what I'm seeing so far, there's nothing to worry about in that regard. So I'm all good.

 

[pixiesvision]

I don't see how one definitely negates the other. Bardem stole the show in NCFOM, does that mean the film didn't have effective storytelling? DDL and Waltz stole TWBB and Inglourious Basterds respectively, did they not tell their stories with effectiveness?

Unfortunately, sometimes it does. Depending on who you talk to of course. All some people remember about a certain movie will be for a character before they can even remember the plot. I've talked to quite a few people about TWBB, one of my favorites, and some of the ones who have seen it will go on to say "DDL was great," but I can't talk to them about the plot bc they don't even remember what happened in the movie.

Or, maybe I need to hang out with more people who actually pay attention...

 

[Solidus]

Why are people worried about villains stealing the show with this?

"Batman/Bruce feels more fleshed out and has a complete arc to end his story"

Villains can easily steal the show, they usually always do, in a lot of movies they become some of the more iconic characters, like Vader ect. Villains are suppose to have a dominating presence in the film. But that quote above sounds fine by me, a complete arc and fleshed out, Bruce is still the focus.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

The main thing I can't wait to see is how Bruce's arc will wrap up. It's going to be emotional and uplifting at the same time.

No matter how many times people look for the villain to steal the show, I'm always looking at Bruce's story. That's what these films are about and thats what it will end with, an incredible conclusion to his arc.

One month to go

 

[Blue Sugar]

Oh no, not this "steals the show" discussion again, it's so stupid.

 

[Deserana]

Bruce will be the emotional core this time around that's for sure. I guess that in most other superhero films like Iron Man, even Spiderman, the villains really seem secondary which makes the heroes stand out even more.

Not that I want that to happen in TDKR or anything, but a lot of detractors like to say that Batman is almost irrelevant in these films .

Definitely not irrelevent but I don't see why he has to have the most screentime or focus. The emotional core yes but not most screentime. For me with some (more formulaic) superhero/comic book films the third act is just well..... boring. Luckily with BB the first hour was so strong that I just got sucked in and followed the ride but like I said with Iron Man or X-Men First Class (good film but the villain is nowhere near intimidating enough) and even looking at The Amazing Spider-Man they are films where the protaganists take centre-stage. Fine. But then you have to deal with the final "battle" which is just boring to me if the villain is just a walk over.

Neither The Joker nor Bane looked like easily beatable villains that's because they were built up and Bruce Wayne took a backseat. Even Ra's kinda seemed like a walk over (still loved the film though). A fist fight on a train that was pretty much it to stop Ra's.

 

[EliteF50]

How amazing would it be for Bale to get a Nomination?

But judging from what we've seen, I'd say Tom and Christian deserve at the very least a nomination.

 

[kvz5]

Oh no, not this "steals the show" discussion again, it's so stupid.

Somehow I thought of you when I first saw the "steal the show" because I remembered how you hated that phrase.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Regarding the villains, a rule of thumb: the antagonist should be just as fleshed out as the protagonist. And Nolan has done that with each film. Ra's wasn't a colorful villain, but we got to know him as his Ducard persona. So we did become quite invested in him because he shared a spotlight with Bruce for a good chunk of the film.

And with the Joker, we got to know him as the whole film progressed and that will likely be how Catwoman and Bane function as well.

 

[Van Petrol]

Oh no, not this "steals the show" discussion again, it's so stupid.

I promise you, I didn't start it this time...

 

[Sharkboy]

Unfortunately, sometimes it does. Depending on who you talk to of course. All some people remember about a certain movie will be for a character before they can even remember the plot. I've talked to quite a few people about TWBB, one of my favorites, and some of the ones who have seen it will go on to say "DDL was great," but I can't talk to them about the plot bc they don't even remember what happened in the movie.

Well that says more about their inability to retain knowledge of a film rather than an inability to tell a story well. "stealing a show" rarely detracts from good films.

 

[The Batman]

Read Bale's quote. To paraphrase, Bruce has missed out on all things that life is worth living for, and he'll have to learn all that stuff later on in life, much later than most people.

Yes, I've read Bale's quote. And I know you REALLY wanna see Bruce and Selina riding offf on a white horse, her head rested on Bruce's shoulder with her arms wrapped around his waist, but you dont necessarily need to settle down with someone to find the things in life worth living for. I'm just saying.

Not only that, things are pretty much leaning towards Miranda as the romantic storyline for Bruce. If those ideas are explored, it'll most likely be through her....and even then, we know how that ends.

Bruce is too serious. Too much of a brooder. Perhaps he should be more of a lovable, quippy dbag like Anthony Stark. And his villains utterly bland. Maybe then Batman would steal the show.

You were more entertaining making creepy Batman/Bane posts.

Well, I had issues with previous Batman films (i.e. Burton, Schumacher's) handling of Batman and the villains. I know Nolan has done a better job, and I have no doubt that the audience won't be left without feeling and knowing that Bruce's story is just as important as the excitement that the villains/supporting characters present.

This. I wouldnt have so much of an issue with this if this didnt happen basically EVERY Batman film, barring BB....

It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Batman's villains are so in your face and colorful that the only way to do them properly is making them scene stealers because that's their nature. Especially ones like Catwoman and Joker. They have outlandish personalities.

I don't think Ra's or Scarecrow were used to nearly their full potential in Begins, and that's probably why they didn't steal Batman's thunder. They were used to the bare minimum. I think the amount of time Crane spent wearing the Scarecrow mask could be under 2 minutes.

I never ever bought the whole "Joker stole TDK" scenario because to me I think Bale, Eckhart, and Oldman were just as good. Joker was just the most memorable because he was the most outlandish and colorful.

...And like the Joker wisely notes here, the one time Bruce was the "Star" of the movie, his foes were more underutilized, and stripped of their most over the top elements.

And I agree wholeheartedly on TDK. I expect everyone to be on their A game...but I also expecte Anne to be talked about the most.

 

[pixiesvision]

Definitely not irrelevent but I don't see why he has to have the most screentime or focus. The emotional core yes but not most screentime. For me with some (more formulaic) superhero/comic book films the third act is just well..... boring. Luckily with BB the first hour was so strong that I just got sucked in and followed the ride but like I said with Iron Man or X-Men First Class (good film but the villain is nowhere near intimidating enough) and even looking at The Amazing Spider-Man they are films where the protaganists take centre-stage. Fine. But then you have to deal with the final "battle" which is just boring to me if the villain is just a walk over.

Neither The Joker nor Bane and to a certain degree Ra's looked like easily beatable villains.

It's partially why I'm not really looking forward to TASM after reading that the Lizard is a weak villain in the film. No offense to anyone who's looking forward to it.

 

[Bat]

Batman will steal the show.

 

[pixiesvision]

Well that says more about their inability to retain knowledge of a film rather than an inability to tell a story well. "stealing a show" rarely detracts from good films.

Like I said, unfortunately, sometimes it does.

btw, I agree with the first part. I should have worded it differently in my initial comment.

 

[georgec]

How likely is it that Batman uses his cane, not because of Bane, but because of his fall at the end of TDK?

I've never thought otherwise. As Bruce has eased into retirement from donning the mask, he's gotten older and the injuries have taken a toll on him. Most of the shots in the trailers and tv spots with Bruce using a cane take place in the first act (e.g. costume ball).

 

[Solidus]

Regardless of anything if that review is legit, I'm stoked.

 

[Blue Sugar]

Somehow I thought of you when I first saw the "steal the show" because I remembered how you hated that phrase.

 

[AnneFan]

Regarding the villains, a rule of thumb: the antagonist should be just as fleshed out as the protagonist. And Nolan has done that with each film. Ra's wasn't a colorful villain, but we got to know him as his Ducard persona. So we did become quite invested in him because he shared a spotlight with Bruce for a good chunk of the film.

And with the Joker, we got to know him as the whole film progressed and that will likely be how Catwoman and Bane function as well.

Agreed. If Bruce is going to rise in a big meaningful way, he's going to need a colossal opponent to do it against. It is two warriors in the ring, so Bane has to get a good portion dedicated to him as well.

 

[kthevs]

Yes, I've read Bale's quote. And I know you REALLY wanna see Bruce and Selina riding offf on a white horse, her head rested on Bruce's shoulder with her arms wrapped around his waist, but you dont necessarily need to settle down with someone to find the things in life worth living for. I'm just saying.

Not only that, things are pretty much leaning towards Miranda as the romantic storyline for Bruce. If those ideas are explored, it'll most likely be through her....and even then, we know how that ends.

That's not how I feel at all. And I think it's pretty clear what Bale was talking about. The only things Bruce doesn't have are the wife and kids thing. I could care less if it's with Miranda or Selina or a completely random new character. Hell, it could be with John Blake for all I care. I want him to either die or retire as Batman and have a normal life. Unlike you, I don't want the idiotic "he'll always be batman and always be a loner who watches over Gotham" ending. This is not the comics. This is not Batman Beyond.

 

[pixiesvision]

Oh no, not this "steals the show" discussion again, it's so stupid.

tell that to Jonah Nolan t:

 

[Carnotaur3]

...And like the Joker wisely notes here, the one time Bruce was the "Star" of the movie, his foes were more underutilized, and stripped of their most over the top elements.

I don't think they were underutilized, though Scarecrow could have argument for that (he isn't the most interesting Villain to explore anyway), the showyness of Villains would have detracted from the point of how Batman began. And he began as the one thing that stood out from everyone else.