The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 105

[Rapunzel]

I don't think any of them are generic. The super hero genre so far has been mainly where the good guy just goes on protecting forever. The Dark Knight Returns it already happened where Batman dies Bruce does not, it's not new and not necessarily better for Gotham.

I think all of the possibilities are very interesting and different.

Yes but in terms of movies, the hero dying happens all the time. I'd like something a little meatier that gives people more to think about.

Or course, execution is key. Almost anything can be good if done properly.

 

[Brother Jack]

Because there's no greater love than when a man lay down his life for his brother's.

True, but that doesn't necessary mean a physical death. In many ways Bruce has already sacrificed his life for others. What Batman means by "not everything" will have to remain to be seen.

 

[AnneFan]

The whole 'batman fakes his death' thing. And the FULL CIRCLE thing... the last scene could be Gordon and Batman... after batmans supposed death, what if the flare scene ended up being the end scene?

I have posted something on this before as well, but if Batman has a close call with his life, it should be revealed to Gothamites that he did survive, especially after covering up Dent's true nature. I think truth will be a big theme.

 

[Carnotaur3]

True, but that doesn't necessary mean a physical death. In many ways Bruce has already sacrificed his life for others. What Batman means by "not everything" will have to remain to be seen.

He's sacrificed his happiness. He still has a chance for a life if he chooses to take it. But once you make the ultimate sacrifice that's it. That's why you'd have to have a deep love of the people to make that kind of a decision. A love only a father to his children could have.

 

[Reek]

I have posted something on this before as well, but if Batman has a close call with his life, it should be revealed to Gothamites that he did survive, especially after covering up Dent's true nature. I think truth will be a big theme.

Well the flare scene wouldn't have to be some secret meeting between the two... It could be known he survived , but that can still be the final 'talk'.

 

[AnneFan]

Well the flare scene wouldn't have to be some secret meeting between the two... It could be known he survived for, but that can still be the final 'talk'.

I think the flare scene is when he first comes back as Batman - to assemble the police and all that to take down Bane.

 

[Mav]

Reese and Ramirez are two huge plot points that need to be answered, but if only one one gets tied up(such as Ramirez showing up and also dying), I'd be fine with that.

So many questions going into this movie that have yet to be answered. Good thing this movie is almost 3 hours long.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I think the flare scene is when he first comes back as Batman - to assemble the police and all that to take down Bane.

That's what I picked up. I think this is the scene where Batman and Gordon establish a plan. I believe Bane has already taken control of the city.

 

[Reek]

I think the flare scene is when he first comes back as Batman - to assemble the police and all that to take down Bane.

Oh, I completely agree with you... I've also said that before. I was just being bored and looking at the trailers. Was thinking about the last scene being shown beforehand, and randomly thinking of possibilites.

 

[Mav]

Spoiler

bane does bring someone on to the football field after the explosion and kills them with his bare hands, maybe its her and then tells gotham the truth about its "white knight"

I had the exact same thought when Ramirez was mentioned. I think the doctor from the prologue is one of the victims in the football scene, but there were three in total that he kills if I recall.

 

[Rapunzel]

That's only true when you look at individual lives. But when countless souls are on the line in Gotham over a bomb, there won't be a Gotham to save!

Also, a parent would die saving their child. How can there be a love greater than that?

Let me put it this way:

Dying for someone = short term sacrifice.

Living for others= long term sacrifice.

Both loves are important but ultimately the longer term sacrifice is greater and more necessary.

Re parents dying for their children: what makes that such special love is they do it because they live for their kids. They engage in the dying sacrifice as an extension of the living one.

 

[Rapunzel]

Good stuff, Repunzel! I like that idea. And of course, Harvey's true nature showed at the end, and Batman will show at the end of this one.

Yes and that's why I agree with those that say bats can't fake his death and perpetuate another lie.

 

[Mav]

Crazy thought.... But we have gotten the final scene of BB and TDK in the trailers...

The whole 'batman fakes his death' thing. And the FULL CIRCLE thing... the last scene could be Gordon and Batman... after batmans supposed death, what if the flare scene ended up being the end scene?

Makes sense and it follows the pattern of batman and gordon talking at the end of the first two films.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Let me put it this way:

Dying for someone = short term sacrifice.

Living for others= long term sacrifice.

Batman is not some joe shmo on the street and even if joe shmo died saving the city's inhabitants from dying he would be honored as a martyr. Now put Batman into the equation. He'll be immortalized.

A carpenter died on a cross 2000 years ago and started a religion.

 

[AnneFan]

Yes and that's why I agree with those that say bats can't fake his death and perpetuate another lie.

Exactly.

 

[Reek]

For anyone interested... Comcast on demand has TDK and BB(cost $$), but also has interviews and behind the scenes videos for free... Pretty cool to watch and get in depth with the films. may be on youtube, havent even checked.

good stuff none the less

 

[markjoedelonge]

I think the flare scene is when he first comes back as Batman - to assemble the police and all that to take down Bane.

Yes, Gordon lighting the flare on the eve of battle, hoping his friend and greatest ally is still alive and out there.....and then Batman steps out of the shadows to oblige his old friend.

Should make for a very powerful and emotional moment in the film.

 

[Rapunzel]

He's sacrificed his happiness. He still has a chance for a life if he chooses to take it. But once you make the ultimate sacrifice that's it. That's why you'd have to have a deep love of the people to make that kind of a decision. A love only a father to his children could have.

See now I think you're taking the Jesus Bale thing too far

Bats dying doesn't equal Christ dying. It equals bruce willis dying in armagedon.

He would sacrifice himself out of fatherly love for all gothamites. He'd sacrifice his thing because it's the right thing to do.

There's a difference

 

[Rapunzel]

Batman is not some joe shmo on the street and even if joe shmo died saving the city's inhabitants from dying he would be honored as a martyr. Now put Batman into the equation. He'll be immortalized.

A carpenter died on a cross 2000 years ago and started a religion.

He'd be honored as a hero by some, but that does not make a messiah.

 

[JKMoneyShizzle]

Yes, Gordon lighting the flare on the eve of battle, hoping his friend and greatest ally is still alive and out there.....and then Batman steps out of the shadows to oblige his old friend.

Should make for a very powerful and emotional moment in the film.

maybe they will have something in the movie at the end where it leads the crowd to believe bruce is actually dead, a few seconds after the credits you hear flicking noise then hear a sizzling sound the picture cuts to gordon with the flare, music erupts and batman steps out of the shadows.

 

[Excel]

Spoiler

the guy bane kills on the field is pavel, he snaps his neck, per set reports

 

[Carnotaur3]

See now I think you're taking the Jesus Bale thing too far

Bats dying doesn't equal Christ dying. It equals bruce willis dying in armagedon.

He would sacrifice himself out of fatherly love for all gothamites. He'd sacrifice his thing because it's the right thing to do.

There's a difference

Must we go back to Begins and review?

"I can be immortal. I can be everlasting."

He's not going to do that continuing service. Joe shmoe continues service as a police officer or fire-fighter. Do you see joe shmoe honored with a statue?

I've seen William Wallace honored with a statue. Guess what he did? He was captured and killed. He died fighting for Scotland's independence. And now he's remembered forever.

 

[Carnotaur3]

He'd be honored as a hero by some, but that does not make a messiah.

Get the messiah part out of your head lol

 

[Reek]

"Whilst I wanted the terms of the story telling to be as realistic as possible, the expectations of this type of epic film is that you take the action as far as possible. That you take things to as extreme, and large, and as extraordinary as you can without abandoning the story. The ending is meant to push the envelope but never abandon the story telling "

a little paraphrased, but awesome seeing Nolan say that during the BB feature I'm watching

 

[markjoedelonge]

maybe they will have something in the movie at the end where it leads the crowd to believe bruce is actually dead, a few seconds after the credits you hear flicking noise then hear a sizzling sound the picture cuts to gordon with the flare, music erupts and batman steps out of the shadows.

Hmmm could work, but personally, if the film ends with a Batman moment, I'd like a shot of Batman crouched on a gargoyle or something, slowly standing up as the camera moves up to him, and he jumps and glides into the night, something like BB's ending shot, but more grand and powerful.