BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 1

[AnneFan]

Hopefully him trying to kill Clark is a load of crap then.

Considering killing a perceived threat and actually going through with it are two different things.

 

[False Prophet]

There are different versions of the same recent spoilers, so I'll try to generalize my thoughts.

Batman is not a murderer, but a Batman who peripherally kills is not that unusual of an interpretation. Burton's version did it. Schumacher's did it. Nolan's did it. Those "I won't kill" vows he's always spouting. BS. All of it. The character cannot function in modern Gotham without killing, however unintentionally. No way, no how. If you want to hang on semantics, then he's the master of manslaughter. His methods are too violent, his enemies too vicious, Gotham's darkest hours too black for this not to be.

Superman letting Batman beat him is not a sign of character weakness on Superman's part, It's quite the opposite. Everyone knows the fight could end in a split second, but that it doesn't show the emotional growth of Supes from MoS. He's willing to fight, but he's also willing to die on principle. Might isn't always right, as Zod tried to teach him near the end.

Batman was always going to put Superman on the ropes, otherwise it's a story not really worth telling. But I doubt Batman truly wins.

If the spoilers are true, Batman takes the edge in the physical battle, but Superman comes out on top inthe philosophical war.

 

[vantheman77]

Fans aren't logical especially Superman fans anyone who says this doesn't honor Superman is out of their mind. Saving Lois and stopping a terrorist threat, several brief moments of him pulling off multiple heroic acts. Investigating Batman as Clark Kent, showing his love for his mother, willingly standing trial battling Doomsday and sacrificing his life for a world that rejects him. He dies by fighting his way to a kryptonite spear, fights his way through his pain to kill Doomsday.

How does Batman beating him up negate all this none of this shows Superman being pushed aside for Batman. Whose the movie's entire conflict about, who seems to drive the heart of the movie? Whose rogue gallery is the villain apart of? Whose the climax come down to? Who drives the emotional impact of the end? Superman is done justice, it's his movie, critics and fans are just too stubborn when it comes to Superman if this is true no movie has done Superman more justice.

There are a couple of things that Superman fans will definitely not like out of this movie - Superman losing to Batman and Superman dead. The Doomsday fight is not the problem though.

If Batman did win, only because Superman let him. I hope that is shown onscreen. I don't know if Pale's spoilers confirmed that, I may have to re-read again.

 

[InJustice]

The thing is this Batman has fallen from grace. A character arc in this movie is Bruce rediscovering what heroism really means and overcoming all his emotional baggage.

That might be one of the best ways I've ever seen a character be summed up. "Fall from grace" is perfect.

 

[MrsKent26]

There are a couple of things that Superman fans will definitely not like out of this movie - Superman losing to Batman and Superman dead. The Doomsday fight is not the problem though.

If Batman did win, only because Superman let him. I hope that is shown onscreen. I don't know if Pale's spoilers confirmed that, I may have to re-read again.

To its credit, MOS found a way to make superman killing seem in character for that version of the character. If BvS is able to do the same with these possible losses/Superman's death, I will be ok with it...or perhaps even applaud Snyder/Terrio's ability to "go there."

 

[markm22]

There are a couple of things that Superman fans will definitely not like out of this movie - Superman losing to Batman and Superman dead. The Doomsday fight is not the problem though.

If Batman did win, only because Superman let him. I hope that is shown onscreen. I don't know if Pale's spoilers confirmed that, I may have to re-read again.

The part that bothered me the most is Batman having to save Martha for Clark. Cmon.

 

[Dr doomsday]

Hello All -

I've been lurking these forums since Man of Steel and finally felt compelled to register and post. I'm not one for surprises and I always read movie spoilers. I can't get my head around these supposed spoilers and really can't believe the direction they went with a lot of the stuff. I've been a DC fan all my life and consider myself pretty familiar with the characters. I really hope these leaks are completely false. My issues...

- Batman wipes the floor with Superman...? Don't get me started. But, Batman is supposedly going to KILL him before being talked out of it by Lois? KILL HIM? This is supposedly the same guy that will never kill a serial killer like the Joker...? Then he goes from wanting to murder the guy to being best buds with him because his mom's name is Martha. Horrible writing. The original script leak had Superman winning with Batman imploring him to kill him (as a test). When Supes didn't, he passed the test. That sounds like a MUCH better result that makes way more sense.

- Superman successfully gets blackmailed to fight Batman (to the death) by Lex to save Martha...? Nope. That would never happen. If this is true, it's HORRIBLE writing.

- Batman saves Martha for Supes...? So he beats the crap out of him then has to save his mom for him? How much weaker could they make Superman look?

- A Superman death this early in his development also makes zero sense. The public is still divided on him, so wouldn't a good amount be happy he dies? Once again, nonsense. His death in the comics came when he was universally loved and was a "veteran".

This all seems like lazy writing to me and also seems like a ridiculous pandering to Batman's fanbase, all while making Superman look weaker than Spiderman.

Does anyone else find these things to be horribly written? (FYI - I didn't mind Zod's killing the way it was done in MoS)

Rant over. Thanks for reading.

Narrow minded narrow minded, fans thinking a character kicking butt is all that matters allow me to clarify things for you.

So Batman as usual planning everything perfectly instead of actually being wrong is preferable it's a good idea, except this isn't a rational Batman it's a batman driven by rage and emotion, it's a batman who has fallen into the abyss who has nearly become the monsters he fights. Superman's humanity brings him back, his relationship with his parents something Bruce understands. He doesn't mop the floor with him its a close fight that Superman isn't willing to finish but Batman's armor is totaled.

Superman constantly has innocents used against him it's his main weakness. He's likely not trying to kill batman he's trying to persuade him. Either way something like this can happen using people against him is the best tactic to use against him.

Batman rescues Martha while Superman deals with Lex and Doomsday and actually manages to keep civilians safe so it's not like he's doing nothing ones handling one task another the other.

The Death has more impact since he dies for a world that doesn't trust him and people who saw him as a threat who wanted him dead watch him sacrifice his life for them in spite of what they did. He's not dying for a world that worship him he's dying for a world that rejects him. There's plenty of impact to be had.

Of course all you care about is the physical feats not his actual humanity and selflessness, doesn't Superman have the greatest of fans who only think of how strong he is no wonder people think he's boring, why don't you focus on the actual characters and quit your whole that never happened in the comics.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

The part that bothered me the most is Batman having to save Martha for Clark. Cmon.

Someone has to go stop Doomsday man.

 

[vantheman77]

The part that bothered me the most is Batman having to save Martha for Clark. Cmon.

It feels random for Martha to be involved.

I have to wonder if this is based on David Goyer's story or they redid the story besides Chris Terrio writing the script.

 

[MrsKent26]

Someone has to go stop Doomsday man.

Indeed. If it is true, the Bruce saving Martha thing might not be so bad:

Potentially, it shows superman putting humanity and his superman duties above even his own family (growth!) and batman putting superman's family (and by extension, superman) over his own fears/doubts/misgivings regarding said alien.

 

[AnneFan]

It feels random for Martha to be involved.

I have to wonder if this is based on David Goyer's story or they redid the story besides Chris Terrio writing the script.

As Zimmer said, to really hurt Supes you attack his heart.

 

[vantheman77]

If Superman dies, maybe the Supergirl TV series can use him!!

Good thing we have these DCU TV shows as we don't have to wait a year or two between DCU movies.

 

[TX85]

It is random and weird but I'm not too bothered by it until I see it play out

 

[Herolee10]

If Superman dies, maybe the Supergirl TV series can use him!!

Good thing we have these DCU TV shows as we don't have to wait a year or two between DCU movies.

I doubt it considering that Superman will be back for JL.

If anything, he's really not dead but in a induced coma.

 

[revenant78]

There are different versions of the same recent spoilers, so I'll try to generalize my thoughts.

Batman is not a murderer, but a Batman who peripherally kills is not that unusual of an interpretation. Burton's version did it. Schumacher's did it. Nolan's did it. Those "I won't kill" vows he's always spouting. BS. All of it. The character cannot function in modern Gotham without killing, however unintentionally. No way, no how. If you want to hang on semantics, then he's the master of manslaughter. His methods are too violent, his enemies too vicious, Gotham's darkest hours too black for this not to be.

Superman letting Batman beat him is not a sign of character weakness on Superman's part, It's quite the opposite. Everyone knows the fight could end in a split second, but that it doesn't show the emotional growth of Supes from MoS. He's willing to fight, but he's also willing to die on principle. Might isn't always right, as Zod tried to teach him near the end.

Batman was always going to put Superman on the ropes, otherwise it's a story not really worth telling. But I doubt Batman truly wins.

If the spoilers are true, Batman takes the edge in the physical battle, but Superman comes out on top inthe philosophical war.

This is on point

 

[Rapunzel]

I wonder if the codex will play into Supes' ability to come back from death.

 

[Vaibow]

I walked out of MOS feeling confused (no not sexually, although he is a fine specimen) and wanting to see more, i felt like i didn't see the interpretation of superman that i am used too (Reeve, Cain as prime examples) which is fine, but on a personal level i felt a bit, short changed.

But by God if i walk out that cinema to a dead Superman i will be livid.

 

[vantheman77]

Come release time, we will have to see who is telling the truth or not.

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I walked out of MOS feeling confused (no not sexually, although he is a fine specimen) and wanting to see more, i felt like i didn't see the interpretation of superman that i am used too (Reeve, Cain as prime examples) which is fine, but on a personal level i felt a bit, short changed.

But by God if i walk out that cinema to a dead Superman i will be livid.

No, Vaibow, I don't care what you say, I know you were sexually confused.

 

[adeel7861]

I`m gonna have one issue with this movie. I was expecting Superman to have some good dialogue, atleast/especially in the hearing. My source tells me he says absolutely nothing. Then when he's with his mom, its the same thing, he just stares at her and she speaks to him. I don't understand why Snyder wishes to keep him as a mute.

 

[revenant78]

I wonder if the codex will play into Supes' ability to come back from death.

Hmmm...that is an interesting idea. How could that work though?

 

[TheVileOne]

Come release time, we will have to see who is telling the truth or not.

I know this much. This was wrong:

https://***********/devincf/status/582601175352004608

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/daredevil/s01/

 

[IncognitoWalrus]

I`m gonna have one issue with this movie. I was expecting Superman to have some good dialogue, atleast/especially in the hearing. My source tells me he says absolutely nothing. Then when he's with his mom, its the same thing, he just stares at her and she speaks to him. I don't understand why Snyder wishes to keep him as a mute.

If that's true, that's actually disappointing. One of my main complaints about MoS was that Clark listened to too many speeches. Hopefully he actually gets more lines, not necessarily in those scenes, but in general.

 

[adeel7861]

If that's true, that's actually disappointing. One of my main complaints about MoS was that Clark listened to too many speeches. Hopefully he actually gets more lines, not necessarily in those scenes, but in general.

Unfortunately he doesn't have that many lines in the movie.

 

[Rapunzel]

A thought that just occurred to me: none of the leaks mention anything about Supes/Bats discovering each other identities!

And with this kidnapped Martha thing, it seems like Bats has NO IDEA who Supes really is. Otherwise, he'd have already known about Martha Kent! I can't believe Snyder wouldn't have the world's greatest detective solve that puzzle.

And no mention of how Lex figures out Supes' identity? This synopsis, if true, is seeming more and more poorly thought out. And Snyder/Terrio seem like they've thought things out.