BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

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According to Snyder, he killed Superman as a way to remove him from the story while Batman forms the Justice League. Because if Superman was still around, then he would have to be the one to do so. And killing him was a "cool" mechanism to get him out of the way for Batman.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/03/26/bvs-spoilers-zack-snyder-on-the-ending-and-forming-the-justice-league

Listening to that actually annoys me to no end. That is so pathetic, "get him out the way", yeah it was clear watching the film that Superman really was just in the way of his beloved Batman
 
Okay, I saw it last night (unexpectedly). I'm not going to post some long review because I haven't thought it through enough yet so I'll just make a couple points.

This movie is the epitome of "it was GREAT in some ways and AWFUL in others". There were parts that were just so epic and awesome (in the true sense of the word) but there were also parts that took me right out of it.

First of all, like many people, I loved Ben Affleck's Batman! Batman was a plus in this movie for sure. Loved Affleck's performance, I loved how the character was written and portrayed, I love the costume. I loved it enough that I could get over the killing parts. I realize this is a fundamental part of Batman, but for some reason I was able to look past it. Hopefully this issue gets ironed out in the Batman solo movie and any other future movies he appears in so it's as if we can look back at this movie as a specific time in Batman's life when he was unhinged due to his blinding hatred of Superman and anger in general. They could be isolated incidents of killing that truly aren't normal for Batman. I don't know...

I know some people aren't a fan, but I also enjoyed Eisenberg's Lex Luthor! I don't know if it's true to the comics - I never really read or watched Superman growing up - but I thought it really worked here. The guy is a true maniac almost right off the bat and if you're not a powerful super villain, then you have to be super crazy (aka Joker) to take you seriously as a villain. I look forward to his future appearances in he DCEU! Also, loved the Batman/Luthor confrontation at the end.

The Batman v Superman duel was truly epic! Not only was the physical fighting great but you could feel the tension. You could just feel Batman's hatred throughout. Snyder, the actors, writers, everyone involved with this scene: they got this part right. It wasn't just about what I was SEEING but what I was FEELING throughout it.

A few things I did NOT like:

Hated the fight sequence in Batman's dream. Did anyone else? It looked absolutely awful to me and took me right out of the scene. Looked like half the fight was CGI work. I pictured Ben in a studio just doing random moves and punches to nobody in front of a green screen. Awful.

I know some fans are trying to justify it, but there is no way you can justify how the BvS fight ended and they suddenly teamed up, the whole Martha thing. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Such, such amateur writing to me. Wow. Like, that's their plot device?? It wasn't just that the name Martha stopped Batman from killing Superman, it's that suddenly he helps him up, pats him on the chest and says "don't worry, your mom isn't dying tonight". So, so cheesy.

There are lots of other aspects I both love and hate but I'll discuss them later. In a nutshell, I find that this movie has a wealth of great scenes and sequences. The overall problem is that these bits of fantastic material are all connected with very bad editing, plot devices and writing.

I also feel that the answer to a lot of arguments in the past several pages of this thread can be summed up in one thought of mine: this movie was made too early. For instance, the Flash vision/dream sequence. I thought it was the Flash at the time but wasn't sure, and I was spending so much time figuring out if it was him that I wasn't listening to what he was saying. In turn, I hated the scene at the end where Bruce tells Diana they have to find the other metahumans and stand together. That scene seemed so corny to me (it since makes sense now that I understand the whole point of that scene is he was urged to do so by the Flash earlier in the movie). The point being, I don't think the GA needed all this yet. I wasn't necessarily "looking" for these Easter eggs because I was too busy just trying to get a feel for Batman and Superman at this point. I don't know if that makes sense...

I guess this kind of ended up being a review so...here's my rating: 6.5/10 for me.
 
For whatever reason, Superman's death didn't bother me as much as it probably should. I mean, logically, it's the stupidest thing ever but I can't say I walked out of the theatre feeling totally bummed about that. That's a bad thing. I should be pissed. I think it has a lot to do with the filmmakers' failure at portraying Superman. I say "filmmakers" because I don't have a problem with Henry Cavill and his performance.
 
I know some fans are trying to justify it, but there is no way you can justify how the BvS fight ended and they suddenly teamed up, the whole Martha thing. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Such, such amateur writing to me. Wow. Like, that's their plot device?? It wasn't just that the name Martha stopped Batman from killing Superman, it's that suddenly he helps him up, pats him on the chest and says "don't worry, your mom isn't dying tonight". So, so cheesy.

What bothered me about that part is that he called her Martha. Why the hell would Clark refer to his mother by name? The only reason: the filmmakers needed him to say it so Bruce would do a 180.
 
According to Snyder, he killed Superman as a way to remove him from the story while Batman forms the Justice League. Because if Superman was still around, then he would have to be the one to do so. And killing him was a "cool" mechanism to get him out of the way for Batman.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2016/03/26/bvs-spoilers-zack-snyder-on-the-ending-and-forming-the-justice-league

Yeah that was hard to watch, but it confirms a lot.

Why not just write in a plausible reason Superman doesn't want to join the Justice League initially? Why not further develop the two characters by showing their contrasting viewpoint on being superheroes? Or maybe just have Superman be all on board from the get-go, but acquiesce to Batman's superior knowledge and intelligence? Or maybe just create a singular event that causes all members to unite against a greater foe?

Why kill Superman to get him out of Batman's way? That's just stupid.
 
So there are some definitely leaps in logic here:

1. Lois has no idea about Doomsday and certainly no idea he is a Kryptonian when she goes back to get the spear. In fact, Lois doesn't even know what kryptonite is or what the spear is made of.
She overhears Batman and Superman talking about the spear. Pretty sure the movie shows this. She knows Doomsday is Kryptonian because Superman tells her.


2. Batman sends Diana an email while he is on the battlefield waiting for Superman (!). When this is all starting, she is out in public and while only minutes pass, she is suddenly at home in a completely different outfit, relaxing and checking her emails;

Time has passed. Not that complicated.

3. Lex Luthor's plan makes no sense. He kidnaps Martha to get Superman to kill Batman and makes it sound like he'll be filming it...all so he can ruin Superman's reputation - this implies he knows Batman is going to want to fight Superman. But how? All he knows is that it looks like Batman stole the Kryptonite, but how does he know this wasn't to destroy it to keep his buddy Clark safe? And how did he know in advance where Batman would be setting up the fight or when?


Luthor knows Bruce is Batman, and has been seeking to manipulate Wayne's emotions via the former employee and callbacks to the Black Zero event.

But it's not about knowing where the fight is or making Batman fight Superman initially. He sends Superman after Batman with the ultimatum.

Luthor's plan is as much about torturing Superman as it is about eliminating either of them.

How's he know where Batman is? Theres a Batsignal in the sky, Scarecrow.
 
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I saw the movie at a midnight showing the day before it came out.

I loved it, but walked out feeling a little disappointed.
The movie had lots of ups, but they were all part of masking the downs..
A lot of people said in reviews that the first part was good and the second half sucked.. but that was not the case for me.

The first hour had some amazing moments but was edited so awful :cmad:

And one thing that really bothered me is; when the whole explosion happend at the capitol, *****ing lex went back to lexcorp and it looked like someone blew his place up.... only to find the batarang where the kryptonite used to be...

HOW TERRIBLE COULD YOU EDIT THIS!!!! if you are not going to show what happend there.... dont put it up after the capitol explosion... both places had fire everywhere.... it was confusing as *****

+ the JL **** looked so pathetic... the logo's, etc.

And aquaman was TERRIBLE !!!! like; "look at me, look at my hair waving around..."

I am going to see it again tomorrow, and i hope i get a better idea of my thoughts about this movie after the 2nd viewing.
 
Clark Kent is officially dead isn't he? That will be suspicious that he pops up again once Supes does.
 
They're likely abandoning the alter ego. Full time hero/leaguer
 
I don't understand the problems people have with the "Martha" thing. Sure, it's odd he would call her Martha, but it's not like Batman stopped just because of the name. Sure that caught him off guard, but ultimately it forced him to recognize the man, not just the alien. THAT'S what changed.
 
And one thing that really bothered me is; when the whole explosion happend at the capitol, *****ing lex went back to lexcorp and it looked like someone blew his place up.... only to find the batarang where the kryptonite used to be...

HOW TERRIBLE COULD YOU EDIT THIS!!!! if you are not going to show what happend there.... dont put it up after the capitol explosion... both places had fire everywhere.... it was confusing as *****

Yeah, that was a headscratcher.
 
Agreed. The Flash scene was completely unnecessary. It came out of nowhere and just left me feeling confused. They tried way too hard to incorporate Justice League elements.

I'm guessing that people who didn't already know about the Speed Force concept probably didn't understand that scene because it was so bright.
 
The Flash scene is one of those scenes that should be at the end of the movie or after credits.
 
I don't understand the problems people have with the "Martha" thing. Sure, it's odd he would call her Martha, but it's not like Batman stopped just because of the name. Sure that caught him off guard, but ultimately it forced him to recognize the man, not just the alien. THAT'S what changed.

It's like the only way that could have ended in an emotionally satisfying manner without being just "let's not fight anymore". And the response Batman has is powerful. He's essentially preventing someone from going through what he did. Which is the core of his character.
 
I have never been so hyped for a movie. I was let down big time :(

I was originally skeptical about Snyder doing this movie, but was willing to give him a chance hoping he would learn or grow as a director. My worst fears basically came to fruition though :( I will be downright scared personally if Snyder is still direction justice league 1

My biggest issues with the film were the editing. For a movie about Batman v Superman, I thought we would get a much deeper film about their perspectives and reason for fighting but it was very like reason at the end.

I still liked the movie, but I love the characters so much that I still appreciated watching it on screen. Not sure how well this will appeal to GA though. Editing really takes you out of the film at moments.
 
Had a feeing they were gonna abandon the Clark Kent persona if they decided to kill off superman temporarily

Can't say I necessarily agree with the decision, but that's what they chose to go with. I'm sure I'll make peace with it at some point just like I did with my problems in MOS.
 
It's like the only way that could have ended in an emotionally satisfying manner without being just "let's not fight anymore". And the response Batman has is powerful. He's essentially preventing someone from going through what he did. Which is the core of his character.

Batman's response is great, but why did Superman call her Martha? Why in God's name? It's just lazy.
 
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