BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

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You're probably right. They just wanted that shot. I guess showing how Lex becomes bald is a moment that the DCEU can't do without.

Which I understand. But it was unearned. More visuals for the sake of visuals. I don't want to watch a comic book.

Maybe it's some kind of supervillain prison, that prepares villains to better be super menaces to society. They shave your head, they make you listen a lot of classical music, they give you a cat...

Confirmed: Jesse is the new Blofeld. Henry is the new Bond.

Seeing a lot of arguments out there saying if Batman is a killer in this universe, then why the hell is The Joker still alive?
I believe it just adds a little more fuel to the fire that the Joker

is Jason Todd

:sly:
 
No they are not irrelevant. Batman was wearing a bullet proof outfit and was protected. Suspend belief - jeez! That;s what these films are all about
 
I think the saddest truth is that this film about Batman and Superman got me most excited about Wonder Woman and Ezra Miller's Flash.

Ain't that the freaking truth. Though I really think they did a disservice not having that TV Flash kid as the Flash in these movies. Love Ezra. Sensational actor. But I don't think WB expected that Flash series to be so well received or they would have considered it. Pretty sure if that exact same scene played out with him and it not leaking beforehand people would freak out. At least they'd understand who it is a bit better.
 
I think the saddest truth is that this film about Batman and Superman got me most excited about Wonder Woman and Ezra Miller's Flash.
It didn't make you excited about Batman's solo film?
 
No they are not irrelevant. Batman was wearing a bullet proof outfit and was protected. Suspend belief - jeez! That;s what these films are all about

Yes tony stark and the iron man movies and everything else that exists outside of the universe of this film are irrelevant.

I can accept batman's outfit being bulletproof (even though he was stabbed by a knife seconds later). But his outfit protecting him from an energy emission blast which destroys entire city blocks, is beyond any rational suspension of disbelief.
 
Question. Did Flash say "She's the key to all of this" or did he specifically say "Lois" ???
 
batman being at the epicenter of a doomsday energy emission which levels city blocks but he comes out fine because he dove behind a slab of concrete.

I laughed at Batman's expression during that fight. It looked like he knew it was completely out of his league, and truly he was. Unfortunately it's going to keep being this way while Batman, a mere mortal, should run around and fight massive bad guys with metahumans and gods. Thankfully only Superman flies in this new line up of the Justice League. They used to have to carry Batman around in JLA because it seemed everyone else could get anywhere they wanted at any speed they chose except for Batman. Even in cartoon format, he looked out of place, although much less. I hope they find a good and fitting use of him in the JL without looking like they're boosting up his character too much.
 
Except Lex can't be tied to any of those things. Lex's company may have developed the bullet but that doesn't mean lex is involved in the desert incident which Lois can't even prove the bullet came from. Martha was never aware of Lex's involvement, certainly in no way which could be proven in court. And there's no proof Lex created doomsday and no proof he created him with malicious intent. Not that the government would want that to be proven in a public court anyways since they are the ones who gave him access, which makes them complicit in the resulting mayhem.

And the fact that the writers apparently sucked at writing procedural doesn't mean you forego procedure when placing a main character in jail. You don't get to say "these guys suck at writing so let's not blame them for sucking at writing." The fact that any explanation for him being in prison requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience goes to show how bad the writing is. And it's all the more stupid when there's no reason to end with him in prison in the first place. It adds nothing to the film.

I honestly think we have to wait for the extended edition to find out if it was poor writing or poor editing. For all we know, that is all explained in the extended edition.

Which only makes it better insofar as it takes the blame off the writers and puts it squarely on Zack Snyder and his editors.

I thought that was the Flash showing him the future....

It would have been nice if there was a transition to the nightmare, however. I'm waiting to see if there is one in the extended edition.

Did anyone else think that the Aquaman footage was pretty stupid. Flash was cool, Cyborg was cool, but Aquaman was just kind of awkward.

The whole thing was awkward. It was literally "and now we take a break from the film for a word from our sponsor: Justice League!"

Does anyone have those pictures? I dunno. Was it ever followed up in the movie to justify him being in prison? No. I highly doubt any legal action was pursued against lex on behalf of Martha since it would open Lex up to telling the world Clark Kent is superman which puts Martha in farther danger against future villains.

The kryptonite, again nothing was presented in the film in regards to the kryptonite smuggling that puts him in prison. There is no reason to believe he wasn't successful in smuggling it without a trace. Not that it matters since he doesn't even have possession of the kryptonite to prove he smuggled anything.

I'm sure it's easy to prove Lex provided that dude with his wheelchair but you'd have to prove Lex equipped it with the bomb. And seeing as the man had already a run in with the law due to his manifested outrage against superman, it would be hard to "prove" the bombing wasn't just a result of that mans outrage against superman, but the inexplicable will of Lex Luthor.

Again, the fact that explaining Lex's arrest requires so much speculation and assumption on behalf of the audience shows the failings of the script.

Exactly. Which is why I'm hoping the extended edition explains at least some of that.

It was clearly stated that Lex was arrested for his connection with the bombing of the US Capitol. THE BOMBING OF THE US CAPITOL. That's one of the most serious offenses anyone can make, even over creating Doomsday. How do you think he would be detained if he was arrested for BLOWING UP THE US CAPITOL?

Sorry, but I missed that. Can you explain, please? Where in the movie was that?

Re, Lex: the Patriot Act gives a lot of leeway to arresting people suspected of terrorism. My guess is if there was any thought Lex bombed the US capitol, they'd have his butt locked up right quick. Homeland security doesn't mess around.

And Lois told Lex she had proof of the Africa stuff. The bullet led her evidence that he had people involved in that incident; that's how I understood it.

If we were told, it was in such a short moment that it was forgettable. Yet again, I, for one, feel like I have to wait for the extended edition in the hopes that it will explain more...

I don't remember that happening either. That's not to say it isn't there, but it's certainly something the film failed to highlight. That said, it's still weak as it requires us to believe Lex can hack into Kryptonian technology and genetically bio-engineer an alien halfbreed monster as the final play in his mastermind plot to pit Superman against Batman...but, he accidentally left the LexCorp logo on the bomb he used to blow up a government building? No, the public profile the wheelchair dude garnered in the media is what made him the perfect patsy for Lex to utilize. He's too smart to let the bomb be traced back to him.

And now I'm becoming a broken record, but we're going to have to wait for the extended edition before deciding whether the problem was with the writing or the editing.

I'm honestly hoping the problem is with the editing, because I will be even more angry if the writing is the problem...
 
Where exactly is metropolis? I though it was a big made believe town in Kansas. Clark grows up in the country and moves to the city. And Gotham is New York. I didn't like how there was a bay separating them.
 
Where exactly is metropolis? I though it was a big made believe town in Kansas. Clark grows up in the country and moves to the city. And Gotham is New York. I didn't like how there was a bay separating them.
Metropolis being in Kansas was a thing that only ever existed in the Smallville series.

Traditionally, in the comics, they are very near. Metropolis is in Delaware and Gotham is an island city off of the New Jersey coast.
 
Where exactly is metropolis? I though it was a big made believe town in Kansas. Clark grows up in the country and moves to the city. And Gotham is New York. I didn't like how there was a bay separating them.

There are versions where Metropolis and Gotham are next door neighbors, like San Francisco and Oakland. Other versions they are a bit further apart, but within driving distance.

But yeah I'm with you, I don't like them being that close. Makes you wonder why wouldn't Superman and Batman fight crime equally in both cities if that's the case.
 
Where exactly is metropolis? I though it was a big made believe town in Kansas. Clark grows up in the country and moves to the city. And Gotham is New York. I didn't like how there was a bay separating them.

Neither did I. It felt pretty stupid for them to be that close.
 
Neither did I. It felt pretty stupid for them to be that close.

Yeah it makes no sense. Can't think of two major cities in two separate states being that close. cities don't develop that way
 
How... did you get that from this movie? The bullet subplot disappeared. It played no part in Lex kidnapping her. And no reason was given for Lex to be taken in. They didn't even show him arrested, just, already in prison. No trial. No explanation. Was it for unleashing Doomsday? Why and when was his house seized? A trial like that against a billionaire takes years to even go to court.

I don't even know how Lex ends up in prison. Lois says she's investigating him, but really she has nothing. She has a bullet made by his company which she can't prove where she got it and does nothing to prove Lex's involvement in a conspiracy or crime. And she has a tip of classified information from a source who will never go on record to confirm it; which makes it unsubstantiated hearsay especially since there is nothing shown of Lois discovering any evidence or information which would confirm the accusations. There is no other known admissible evidence offered, or anything that would stand up in a court of law, or anything that a super rich and powerful man like Lex couldn't tie up in litigation for decades and eventually get away with. Hell, he couldn't even be tied to Doomsday, not that the government/military would want that to be public knowledge since they were complicit in providing him access to the materials and technology to do so, despite the fact the government/military was aware of his involvement in the desert conspiracy. There's not even any motivation for Lex to be doing any of these things other than the fact he has the name Lex Luthor and we all know that means he's a bad guy who does bad things.

Couldn't Lois prove that the bullet came from the fire fight by matching it to the hole in her notebook? I thought the investigation as a whole was worthwhile and showed Lois off well. It would have been worse if what had happened, happened and she didn't analyze it more closely or ask questions. She didn't give up or take things at face value, and that's admirable. Moreover, by following the trail, her scattered scenes throughout the rising action of the movie serve to fill the audience in on just how much Lex is orchestrating events. When Lois faces off with Lex following her kidnapping, she tells him that she's proven what he's done. One can quibble about whether or not one finds that realistic, but the movie itself is telling us that she's exposed Luthor and that it worked; thus it was fruitful and worthwhile. I'm sure it wasn't all that got him put away in jail, but it undoubtedly helped. It also would have cleared Superman from being inculpated in the casualties in Africa, since Lex being incarcerated for the Capitol bombing wouldn't have resolved that issue.
 
Couldn't Lois prove that the bullet came from the fire fight by matching it to the hole in her notebook? I thought the investigation as a whole was worthwhile and showed Lois off well. It would have been worse if what had happened, happened and she didn't analyze it more closely or ask questions. She didn't give up or take things at face value, and that's admirable. Moreover, by following the trail, her scattered scenes throughout the rising action of the movie serve to fill the audience in on just how much Lex is orchestrating events. When Lois faces off with Lex following her kidnapping, she tells him that she's proven what he's done. One can quibble about whether or not one finds that realistic, but the movie itself is telling us that she's exposed Luthor and that it worked; thus it was fruitful and worthwhile. I'm sure it wasn't all that got him put away in jail, but it undoubtedly helped. It also would have cleared Superman from being inculpated in the casualties in Africa, since Lex being incarcerated for the Capitol bombing wouldn't have resolved that issue.

I kinda get where they were trying to go with that but it doesn't make sense. That's like me finding a Smith & Wesson .50 cal bullet after a gang fight in my hood and accusing the billionaire CEO of S&W of being responsible for it being there. I'd get laughed at
 
Yeah it makes no sense. Can't think of two major cities in two separate states being that close. cities don't develop that way

With that proximity Gotham and Metropolis are essentially one city. It was a dumb choice.
 
Couldn't Lois prove that the bullet came from the fire fight by matching it to the hole in her notebook?
You could probably prove it was likely, to a certainable degree, the bullet was lodged into her notebook. But you would have to further prove that the bullet was fired in that desert, in that scenario, from that gun, which was fired by a man who was hired and under explicit orders from Lex Luthor. We are talking about an international investigation which requires the full cooperation from the governments of multiple countries. None of that is happening.
 
Yeah it makes no sense. Can't think of two major cities in two separate states being that close. cities don't develop that way

The closest I can think of of two major cities would be something like DC/Baltimore or Dallas/Forth Worth
 
The military knew Luthor had contractors there too, but it was classified. There was probably a paper trail, and I would imagine it became unclassified after the Doomsday incident. But since this wasn't the Lex Luthor courtroom drama film...we don't neccessarily need to see all that.
 
With that proximity Gotham and Metropolis are essentially one city. It was a dumb choice.

Yep. Like St. Paul and Minneapolis. I guess that's what they were going for but in this context it makes no sense

The closest I can think of of two major cities would be something like DC/Baltimore or Dallas/Forth Worth

They should have kept Gotham as their New York and Metropolis as their Chicago. Would make the most sense for Clark to go to the closest metropolitan city to his home town
 
Yep. Like St. Paul and Minneapolis. I guess that's what they were going for but in this context it makes no sense



They should have kept Gotham as their New York and Metropolis as their Chicago. Would make the most sense for Clark to go to the closest metropolitan city to his home town

Snyder said early this year that they were going for a sort of San Francisco-Oakland type locale.
 
So is the Clark Kent persona dead? He had an open casket service in Smallville & obit in the Daily Planet.

When he returns in JL, will he only be Superman?
 
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