BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[Robin91939]

But that's not the only part. Lois is the key and you were right. That's confusing enough and again, it was hard to figure out that the guy was from the future. I had to Google it.

It was not the best prophetic dream sequence.

Again, they are telling a story that is broader than just one or a couple films.

It is okay to plant seeds and have them not all pay off by the end of the final reel of this single film.

Why do Marvel, Sony and FOX get a pass for setting up larger threats with no payoff and DC isn't allowed to?

This isn't a Marvel vs. DC thing. I love and own every Marvel film on Blu Ray. Every Spider-Man and X-Men film. I feel like DC is definitely getting some unfair scrutiny here.

-R

 

[Donner]

They obviously want some of this to be a mystery.

Why is this such an issue?

It's not a mystery if it doesn't make sense. It's just a "huh" moment that takes away from the rest of the movie.

He didn't need the dream sequence figure to tell him to find the others. Once he found Wonder Woman, he naturally would have wanted to track down the rest. Weird Flash man telling him to isn't necessary.

 

[Donner]

Again, they are telling a story that is broader than just one or a couple films.

It is okay to plant seeds and have them not all pay off by the end of the final reel of this single film.

Why do Marvel, Sony and FOX get a pass for setting up larger threats with no payoff and DC isn't allowed to?

This isn't a Marvel vs. DC thing. I love and own every Marvel film on Blu Ray. Every Spider-Man and X-Men film. I feel like DC is definitely getting some unfair scrutiny here.

-R

Marvel doesn't get a pass. The scene with Thor in the lightning bath thing in AoU is just as bad. Didn't make any sense. Poorly explained. No one gives a pass to Marvel when they don't do it right. I already admitted that when I have to explain too much after watching a Marvel movie that the movie didn't do a good enough job.

I feel like this film didn't either. It wasn't clear. It wasn't even sort of clear.

 

[Robin91939]

It's not a mystery if it doesn't make sense. It's just a "huh" moment that takes away from the rest of the movie.

He didn't need the dream sequence figure to tell him to find the others. Once he found Wonder Woman, he naturally would have wanted to track down the rest. Weird Flash man telling him to isn't necessary.

You don't know that.

You haven't seen it from the Flash's perspective. What drove Flash to travel back to that moment? What is going on on the other side of that portal?

These are all questions that we'll have answered eventually. And they are intriguing, or we wouldn't be talking about them.

I will make a bet that we will see a scene from Flash's perspective of him traveling back to that moment and we will see Bruce react to what Flash is telling him from Flash's point of view and the result of this in full in a future film.

-R

 

[Donner]

The fact that it was someone travelling back in time wasn't clear either. Maybe it would be with a couple more viewings. But that's something only a fan would do.

I thought Bruce was just losing his mind.

 

[Robin91939]

The fact that it was someone travelling back in time wasn't clear either. Maybe it would be with a couple more viewings. But that's something only a fan would do.

I thought Bruce was just losing his mind.

If you couldn't tell that it was someone from the future, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if you weren't sure if it was "real" or a hallucination, it is still apparent that the person talking is relaying information from the future.

That's a stone-cold lock. If you can't see that, I really can't help ya.

-R

 

[The Guard]

It's not a mystery if it doesn't make sense. It's just a "huh" moment that takes away from the rest of the movie.

He didn't need the dream sequence figure to tell him to find the others. Once he found Wonder Woman, he naturally would have wanted to track down the rest. Weird Flash man telling him to isn't necessary.

The reason he wants to find the others is not just because they're out there. As he flat out tells Wonder Woman, it's because he has a feeling they'll need help.

Based on that dream sequence and visit from The Flash.

 

[writer0327]

It doesn't make sense. Find us has no meaning if you didn't know who the figure was in the scene.

That wasn't the best way to portray a prophetic dream if no one got it. I couldn't even make out half the crap the Flash saying.

It certainly wasn't.

The film presented a fitful narrative style. The data and information is all there, but you have to step outside of the film and think about it. When that scene first came on the screen, I had to think..."Ok, wait, is that the Flash? Maybe, I don't know. Ok, I'll say it is, now....what was he saying? Something about Lois Lane. I couldn't really understand him. Wait, what was that other part, he was right about Superman? Is that who he's talking about? And what does he even mean by that?"

You see, when you have things like this (and many, many others in the movie) that take me out of the movie, it becomes a constant reminder that I'm watching a film. Instead I should be lost in the story that's on screen, with gripping, memorable characters, a great plot with incredible scenes. I shouldn't be thinking about how that scene didn't flow or make any sense, how long has this movie been going so far, and when are we going to get to the good stuff. That's when you've failed as a storyteller.

 

[Donner]

If you couldn't tell that it was someone from the future, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if you weren't sure if it was "real" or a hallucination, it is still apparent that the person talking is relaying information from the future.

That's a stone-cold lock. If you can't see that, I really can't help ya.

-R

Well, pair that up with his other dream about flying demons and Superman's soldiers and the message gets sort of muddled.

 

[InJustice]

Again, they are telling a story that is broader than just one or a couple films.

It is okay to plant seeds and have them not all pay off by the end of the final reel of this single film.

Why do Marvel, Sony and FOX get a pass for setting up larger threats with no payoff and DC isn't allowed to?

This isn't a Marvel vs. DC thing. I love and own every Marvel film on Blu Ray. Every Spider-Man and X-Men film. I feel like DC is definitely getting some unfair scrutiny here.

-R

Don't forget that IM2 and ASM2 got lambasted for focusing on planting seeds too much. So the whole fairness argument is irrelevant. The point is to reach a balance, otherwise, you're making a 2.5 hour trailer for another movie.

 

[The Guard]

It certainly wasn't.

The film presented a fitful narrative style. The data and information is all there, but you have to step outside of the film and think about it. When that scene first came on the screen, I had to think..."Ok, wait, is that the Flash? Maybe, I don't know. Ok, I'll say it is, now....what was he saying? Something about Lois Lane. I couldn't really understand him. Wait, what was that other part, he was right about Superman? Is that who he's talking about? And what does he even mean by that?"

You see, when you have things like this (and many, many others in the movie) that take me out of the movie, it becomes a constant reminder that I'm watching a film. Instead I should be lost in the story that's on screen, with gripping, memorable characters, a great plot with incredible scenes. I shouldn't be thinking about how that scene didn't flow or make any sense, how long has this movie been going so far, and when are we going to get to the good stuff. That's when you've failed as a storyteller.

You become aware you're watching a film?

the hell?

 

[KingKane88]

Well, pair that up with his other dream about flying demons and Superman's soldiers and the message gets sort of muddled.

I see what everyone is saying about the dream sequences ect, but i actually loved em!

It made me feel that what Lex was doing was working, he was getting in Batman's head which made Bruce decide to wanna kill Sups.

 

[InJustice]

You become aware you're watching a film?

the hell?

He's trying to say that it breaks immersion for him.

 

[writer0327]

The fact that it was someone travelling back in time wasn't clear either. Maybe it would be with a couple more viewings. But that's something only a fan would do.

I thought Bruce was just losing his mind.

Imagine for a moment you never read a certain novel, then they make a movie about it and they use this same herky-jerky narrative style where information is flying at you in the multiple different ways....flashbacks, flash-forwards, dream sequences, visions, and scattered in the middle of all of that is a somewhat complicated plot with some minor twists and turns. You'd probably be pretty frustrated trying to follow all of that.

 

[Jaxon]

The primary issue with the movie is that they're trying to tell 3 separate stories;

1) Batman's
2) Superman's
3) Lex's

The set up to the JL is pretty straight forward and simple to handle. Enough bread crumbs were there it was fine.

Problem is, trying to tell 3 stories is f***** hard, and I think just got too big for the creative team.

 

[The Guard]

Except that it was simple info, repeated several times, and then summed up very simply.

 

[writer0327]

You become aware you're watching a film?

the hell?

I should be sitting in the movie theater captivated with the goings-on of the narrative on the screen. Why am I constantly being dragged out of that to figure out what the hell the director and writer are trying to say? It should be organic to the scene.

 

[The Guard]

Because you lack focus?

Sometimes things in film are jarring. There's no way to make a shocking moment like that "organic". By its nature, it has to come from nowhere.

 

[Kanon]

I remember something else I hated: title cards for locations and such. Do we really need a text on screen to tell us that we are in "Metropolis", that is "18 months later" and many other situations? I hate those cards, directors should go to jail for using them (ok, maybe that's a little too much)

 

[writer0327]

Because you lack focus?

Sometimes things in film are jarring. There's no way to make a shocking moment like that "organic". By its nature, it has to come from nowhere.

It has nothing to do with a lack of focus. A jarring story is fine. A jarring storytelling style is not. When you throw something shocking like that in a movie, it should be either organic, and it flows easily with the narrative, or it needs some expository dialog somewhere down the line to illustrate 1: what the hell that was, and 2: why it was important. That's good storytelling. Bad storytelling is handling it the way it was handled.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Re: the whole Martha/flamethrower guy/machine gun thing - ive only just realised that its basically this:-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=d...AUIBygB&biw=640&bih=279#imgrc=o3hRYrFM1w2VWM:

only softened somewhat, in that as opposed to Bats gunning down the mutant, he shoots the tank.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Re: the whole Martha/flamethrower guy/machine gun thing - ive only just realised that its basically this:-

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=d...AUIBygB&biw=640&bih=279#imgrc=o3hRYrFM1w2VWM:

only softened somewhat, in that as opposed to Bats gunning down the mutant, he shoots the tank.

Snyder even admitted that in recent interview. His crew wanted Batman to shoot the guy in the head, since they're huge fans of DKR, but Snyder insisted Batman shoots the canister.

 

[Brian Braddock]

It certainly wasn't.

The film presented a fitful narrative style. The data and information is all there, but you have to step outside of the film and think about it. When that scene first came on the screen, I had to think..."Ok, wait, is that the Flash? Maybe, I don't know. Ok, I'll say it is, now....what was he saying? Something about Lois Lane. I couldn't really understand him. Wait, what was that other part, he was right about Superman? Is that who he's talking about? And what does he even mean by that?"

You see, when you have things like this (and many, many others in the movie) that take me out of the movie, it becomes a constant reminder that I'm watching a film. Instead I should be lost in the story that's on screen, with gripping, memorable characters, a great plot with incredible scenes. I shouldn't be thinking about how that scene didn't flow or make any sense, how long has this movie been going so far, and when are we going to get to the good stuff. That's when you've failed as a storyteller.

So, in a nutshell your gripe is that you had to think for yourself as you werent being spoonfed. I can imagine how that may have been taxing........

 

[Legendver2]

So, in a nutshell your gripe is that you had to think for yourself as you werent being spoonfed. I can imagine how that may have been taxing........

I think a good majority of the complaints is that there was too much left to interpretation and nothing was spoonfed. I mean there are long debates on what "save Martha" meant and why batman stopped the fight there. I mean c'mon...

 

[Legendver2]

I remember something else I hated: title cards for locations and such. Do we really need a text on screen to tell us that we are in "Metropolis", that is "18 months later" and many other situations? I hate those cards, directors should go to jail for using them (ok, maybe that's a little too much)

I actually kinda enjoyed those. It gave a comic book kind of feel.