The Wrestling Thread has much larger nipples

[DarthSkywalker]

People forget WWF was putting out great top teir stuff from August 1999 until July 2001 with Kreski and later Gewitz I think. Creative could theoretically be fine even though it won't be.

People have had crazy work loads before and produced better TV than the Heyman era of RAW. I was reading nor hearing buzz for the shows at all and yet Heyman leaving is some tragedy. I'm not buying it. Ruining SmackDown in 2017 and cancelling the amazing Talking Smack that's a tragedy. That had the whole fan community upset. This is like whatever. We were getting better **** on RAW in 2017 well before this executive producer stuff. Hell, the supposed great hope Otis was under Bischoff and Prichard so how come McIntyre nor Black or whomever else was Heyman's guys or girls were as talked about? I don't. even want blame Paul but do we really want to pretend this period actually was that great? Doesn't seem like it outside of the stuff setting up WrestleMania 36. I tapped out during Heyman's run and I barely heard anyone talk about RAW as something I was missing out on. With all due respect to Darth, he's the only person I know of who acted like this was great stuff outside of Simon Miller, and he's just generally positive.

I think you might be mistake about a few things, including Bischoff, who never actually properly ran SD and was not around for Otis.

I'd say RAW has been much better the last year then it has been in a long time. You can find plenty of people who were enjoying RAW the last year. Everyone knows what happens with the shows. Vince has to sign off. If Vince wants something, it's up to Vince. I don't know what you expect the people to do, when Vince has to sign off.

You mention tapping out, which is fine. But I have not, and I have been following the WWE consistently for the last 5 years without interruption. Every single show from RAW, SD, and NXT. People haven't been calling RAW the greatest show on Earth. But they have been pointing out the general improvement under Heyman, which is why people are annoyed.

You think people weren't enjoying seeing guys like Andrade and Garza get pushed and wrestle every week? You think having legit matches on RAW wasn't something fans were enjoying? The Fiend became a thing during this era under Heyman. He somehow rebuilt Asuka.

Sure, there is still junk and on occasions a lot. But everyone know's what it means when Vince has control. We have seen him change a crap ton of things in the last 3 months out of nowhere. It's not new.

Yes the top tier stuff from 1999-2001. Yeah, let's not look back at that era too closely now.

 

[STARMAN]

I haven't watched wrestling regularly since around 1990. I've recently been watching old matches from that era and found several of them held up well, at least in my eyes. What impressed me was the color commentary that brought so much life to the shows and sold even some of the most preposterous stuff. Vince was pretty good as a commentator back then and Jesse Ventura was fantastic. Some of this stuff makes me laugh now. Like the break-up of the Megapowers with Elizabeth getting injured and lying on a gurney as Hulk holds her hand and cries in hopes that she is okay. Savage attacks him and then tosses Elizabeth to the floor with Vince shouting "Somebody stop that idiot!"

It makes me laugh now. But back then I was actually worried for Hulk and Elizabeth.

 

[Wheels]

Is anyone here going to say RAW and SmackDown are better now overall than during that period I mentioned? I doubt it.

If RAW was getting buzz during most Heyman's recent run I would have heard something. If anything I'm more apt to be biased toward Heyman so it's nothing against him but I barely see this registering at all.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Is anyone here going to say RAW and SmackDown are better now overall than during that period I mentioned? I doubt it.

If RAW was getting buzz during most Heyman's recent run I would have heard something. If anything I'm more apt to be biased toward Heyman so it's nothing against him but I barely see this registering at all.

You neglecting Vince's involvement. It has very little to do with Heyman. But that your argument isn't actually watching it but the grapevine method doesn't really show you know what has been happening on any of the shows over this period of time.

And I personally prefer a WWE that has way less sexism and racism every single week. Watching classic WWE, where racist caricatures were the norm, women were being beaten by men as the crowd cheered weekly and having women strip and in general embarrassed by Vince and his crew isn't my version of a great time. So I will watch classic matches, classic angles from that era. But the actual product was a cesspool of grossness that teenage me was good with, but not adult me. As much as I liked watching Benoit, Angle and Austin wrestle during that time.

But hey, puppies!!!

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Finished SD. Bryan and AJ might have had the best wrestling match in WWE history during social distancing with no crowds. Of course.

Bayley's Heel run getting randomly great the last few months has been a joy to see. Same with Sasha in that outfit. Their eventual match is going to be a lot of fun.

 

[Wheels]

You neglecting Vince's involvement. It has very little to do with Heyman. But that your argument isn't actually watching it but the grapevine method doesn't really show you know what has been happening on any of the shows over this period of time.

And I personally prefer a WWE that has way less sexism and racism every single week. Watching classic WWE, where racist caricatures were the norm, women were being beaten by men as the crowd cheered and having women strip and in general embarrassed by Vince and his crew isn't my version of a great time. So I will watch classic matches, classic angles from that era. But the actual product was a cesspool of grossness that teenage me was good with, but adult me. As much as I liked watching Benoit, Angle and Austin wrestle during that time.

But hey, puppies!!!

Vince is still going to be an issue no matter what though. I feel like I saw enough of things to get the feeling that it was just the same thing I was watching but I will admit that I wasn't watching all that much for a good while so I can't say it was good or bad. I can say the early period of new RAW and SmackDown' under Heyman and Bischoff was not good enough to keep me around but at the same time nothing was. Every company felt like they had good to great matches but creative was subpar to say the least, so I stopped watching. When you're spoiled by kick ass matches you take it for granted, especially when the stuff around it is lackluster.


I love a great match but how many great promos are in the company? How many of those great promos have the look Vince likes? You got guys like Kevin Owens and Somoa Joe who can do it all but they're too fat for Vince I guess? The most we get is a solid mic worker at best pushed as a top 5 star. Even my favorite guy right now lacks in the mic department. There's barely ever any big angles going on and if there is people are complaining about how bad they are usually. See the new Jeff Hardy thing, Roman's attacker, Resev/Lana/Lashley etc. Mania appeared to be the only show with good angles going into it.

The matches are top quality in every promotion with any name value at all. The good angles are few are far between and mic work is lacking overall IMO.

I would go with Miz and Morrison tonight despite liking Braun (Ridiculous things he says on Twitter aside). The dual champion thing is too fun to pass on and later face JoMo and Miz can feud over the title.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

18 months apart:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

We went from a proper WWE Championship match to a a "cinematic non-match" that involved ninjas on motorcycles and the Star Wars trash monster.

 

[vantheman77]

So with Paul Heyman no longer booking Raw and Bruce Prichard overseeing both Raw and Smackdown, wait until Dave Meltzer rips on Raw on a weekly basis since he’s a fan of Heyman’s.

 

[TheVileOne]

People forget WWF was putting out great top teir stuff from August 1999 until July 2001 with Kreski and later Gewitz I think. Creative could theoretically be fine even though it won't be.

From 1999 to 2001 they did not have seven hours of primetime TV a week. They didn't have 3 hour Raw, 2 hours NXT, 2 hours Smackdown, plus 205 Live, plus Main Event, plus NXT UK. After Smackdown premiered, they had two hours of Raw and two hours of Smackdown. Sunday Night Heat was usually taped the same night as Smackdown.

People have had crazy work loads before and produced better TV than the Heyman era of RAW. I was reading nor hearing buzz for the shows at all and yet Heyman leaving is some tragedy. I'm not buying it. Ruining SmackDown in 2017 and cancelling the amazing Talking Smack that's a tragedy. That had the whole fan community upset. This is like whatever. We were getting better **** on RAW in 2017 well before this executive producer stuff. Hell, the supposed great hope Otis was under Bischoff and Prichard so how come McIntyre nor Black or whomever else was Heyman's guys or girls were as talked about? I don't. even want blame Paul but do we really want to pretend this period actually was that great? Doesn't seem like it outside of the stuff setting up WrestleMania 36. I tapped out during Heyman's run and I barely heard anyone talk about RAW as something I was missing out on. With all due respect to Darth, he's the only person I know of who acted like this was great stuff outside of Simon Miller, and he's just generally positive.

I'm not upset about Heyman leaving because I don't think he's done a great job.

 

[Dr. Evil]

We went from a proper WWE Championship match to a a "cinematic non-match" that involved ninjas on motorcycles and the Star Wars trash monster.

It was weird and not in a good way.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So with Paul Heyman no longer booking Raw and Bruce Prichard overseeing both Raw and Smackdown, wait until Dave Meltzer rips on Raw on a weekly basis since he’s a fan of Heyman’s.

Oh, he has been doing that anyways with AEW around.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So, Blacklash:

- I really enjoyed the opening Women's tag title match. 5 very talented women and Billie Kay, put on an enjoyable show.

- Sheamus/Jeff, felt like a match where Sheamus was trying to drag Jeff through it, and it did not work out. It felt very long, and rather boring. Also Jeff almost died at least twice and it was really uncomfortable. Jeff is just so sloppy in the ring at this point.

- Asuka/Nia. I was just praying Asuka would get through it without getting hurt, and she was succeeding. Hell the match was even kind of okay, thanks to Asuka. But then the double countout ending came, and I realized they were going to continue to feud, so I had to start praying again.

- Universal Title Match. Well, at least Morrison is awesome and the music video is pretty sweet. I can't handle Braun as champ. He's kind of awful, especially in comparison to Drew.

- Drew/Lashley. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. This is the kind of match only the two of them could have. Athletic beasts, who can wrestle. Some of the transitions were insane, and I loved the classic power moves, but done with actual skill and purpose. I was so worried when it looked like Drew might of landed on his head, but he seemed okay. The ending was blah, but I hope that means this is continuing.

- The stuff with the Viking Warriors and the Street Profits... Every time it was fun, they would mess it up with a flashback or something. It wasn't awful, and I did end up enjoying it overall, but it wasn't all that great either. It was also way, way too long. Oh, and I am pretty sure the giant ninja was Titus.

- The main event. Well at least the cheesy bits were fun. The fake crowd noise killed me.

 

[Wheels]

Prichard was the guy who pushed Beer Money as singles guys and was also involved in Austin Aries push I believe a.k.a the best stuff Impact ever did in my opinion. James Storm vs Bobby Roode is my favorite Impact rivalry ever. The guy ain't all bad to me. He did produce those Firefly Funhouse segments most fans loved so he has his good points just like Vince does Him being more likely to approve of typical Vince crap is not great but Heyman being big on Bill Goldberg didn't do me any favors nor do I think his more mellowed out and agreeable attitude from everything that's been said seem like it's going to do much for people who are weary of Vince in general, any real favors. Who knows how much Heyman material people actually got. Might as well just let Prichard do it to me but I understand the reasoning why people would prefer Heyman stick around in that position. He seems to have sensibilities that match up with people like us. Haitch gives us the hardcore's show every week on Wednesday that can't out draw AEW and neither do as well as the least popular shows among our demographic here.

My favorite wrestling show got cancelled awhile ago and the head writer of that show came back to WWE and did squat apparently on SmackDown and got fired over something he said over Zoom I think. Heyman can't do much to make WWE better it seems. Chris DeJoseph gives me my favorite wrestling show since that SmackDown Six period and ultimately it doesn't mean much of anything because LU is dead and Chris seemingly made zero impact in WWE judging the rep of the show he was just on.

 

[NDX]

Lashley v McIntyre delivered and I really hope we see more from them.

 

[TheVileOne]

Prichard also didn't think AJ Styles was capable of becoming a big main event star.

 

[Zorro]

Backlash had some good-great matches with a lot of iffy finishes. WTF was that between Street Profits and Viking Raiders with Akira Tosawa in a ninja biker gang gimmick though? When did Viking Raiders even become a comedy team?

Read about Edge's injury. Such a shame and hopefully he recovers soon but torn triceps is a big injury and recovery is usually at least 8 months

 

[Dr. Evil]

Daniel Bryan is now at a point in his career that if he loses a match, it's not a big deal anymore as it would have been 6 years ago. He's not going to lose his spot on the roster if he loses a match. He will be fine. Not worried about him in the slightest.

 

[javonstokess]

Bobby Lashley's a guy that should have been champ years ago. Multiple missed opportunities there.

 

[TheVileOne]

Daniel Bryan is now at a point in his career that if he loses a match, it's not a big deal anymore as it would have been 6 years ago. He's not going to lose his spot on the roster if he loses a match. He will be fine. Not worried about him in the slightest.

A few years ago, we thought Bryan's career was over. So pretty much anything else is gravy at this point. At least he actually got to have a run with the belt, had a fun heel run, cut great creative promos, had matches with people like Lesnar, AJ Styles, Kofi Kingston, etc.

The new Daniel Bryan was basically like a modernized version of his ROH World champ run from 2005-2006. Kind of dialed it up more and pushed the pro-environment thing more.

 

[Zorro]

I've always been a Bobby Lashley fan and want him to be Universal or WWE champion but I also like Drew and want him to champ a while more. Maybe have a big rematch at Summerslam and drop the title to Lashley there

 

[NDX]

Lashley should have won, even with some shenanigans, and they could have built Drew back up to winning it back around Survivor Series.

 

[Dr. Evil]

A few years ago, we thought Bryan's career was over. So pretty much anything else is gravy at this point. At least he actually got to have a run with the belt, had a fun heel run, cut great creative promos, had matches with people like Lesnar, AJ Styles, Kofi Kingston, etc.

The new Daniel Bryan was basically like a modernized version of his ROH World champ run from 2005-2006. Kind of dialed it up more and pushed the pro-environment thing more.

he seems to be having a lot of fun these days. One of those reasons is that his spot in WWE is secure no matter what. I know that he's had health issues in the past but he was in a position to where had he sat out, he would not have lost his spot.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Sucks about Edge and his injury.

The story about Shawn Michaels getting in a fight with a backstage producer, and Shawn being on the side of BLM is probably my favorite Shawn Michaels story now.

Reason #43214 why he’s the GOAT.

 

[Lobo]

So have you guys seen the little Twitter beef between Orton and Ciampa? It's a real leg slapper imo.