Things those of you don't like about the Nolan Bat-movies.

[Damiean Dark]

I think there was so much potential in BB but it failed to live up to what it could have been, BB has the best script of any bat movie ( and this comes from a die hard B89,BR fan) but it fails the above poster is right Nolan got the heart of batman but missed the look and feel.

 

[Gotham22]

The realism of Gotham City. Gotham is suppost to be a dark, bizzare and brooding place not like an every day city. The batmobile doesnt resemble a bat like the previous ones have and the batcycle which has a stupid name, the batpod but looks very cool. The new batsuit for the film looks like a special force soilder suit. Batman in a crimfighter/superhero. He doesnt work for the goverment or actually works for the law but is on right side of the law.

 

[Bat Attack]

OK:

The big pretentious speeches. Firstly nobody in real life talks the way alot of the dalogue went in Begins. Secondly Batman doesn't talk much. Period. I think he was alittle too talkative.

Extreme close ups to the extreme. Come on Nolan! You're employing the same camera techniques as Paul W.S. Anderson and Uwe Boll. Fix up those fight scenes. People can argue about trying to hide Batman and stuff but what about the Falcone POV shot at he docks? Was he having a seizure?

The need to explain everything. I felt my intelligence was insulted. I mean come on. We KNOW Batman's suit is everything proof. We KNOW the Batmobile can go f**king fast.

Lack of iconic theme. William's theme is synonymous with Superman, Elfman's theme is synonimous with Batman. If you where to play the Begins music to the average punter no one would guess Batman.

It's not who you are underneath but what you do that defines you. WRONG! It's ok to be a racist Nazi as long as you help white old ladies cross the road? Uh-uh. Which reminds me. This movie didn't really dig as deep as people think it did. At least Burton gave us a question to ponder. Does a grown man who dresses up as a bat really doing the right thing?

"I wont kill you, but I don't have to save you!". That's still killing.

The first Joker pic. Worst. Physical. Incarnation. Of Joker. EVER!

Recycling the same excuses to change everything. The Batsuit gets destroyed so he'll get a new one. The Batmobile gets destroyed, so he'll get a batpod.

So in the end, Burton did better. He made Batman larger than life while keeping him low key.

Spot on! My thoughts exactely.

 

[Dr. Fate]

I suppose my biggest gripe was the way some of the action scenes were edited together. I don't like that shakey camera thing where it looks like they're trying to mimic Hong Kong/Kung Fu style filmmaking. And I admit I wasn't really thrilled with casting Cillian Murphy as the Scarecrow, and would have preferred a less tank like Batmobile. Katie Holmes seems to annoy me more with repeat viewings than the first time around, probably because of the Tom Cruise nonsense, even though the Rachel Dawes character was a fairly empty, one note throwaway kind of character, like most of the other Batman love interests.

 

[Cyrusbales]

I've aired my views many times, whilst the opening act is of a decent quality, it tails off very quickly, with an unimaginative use of camera and cinematography, using filters doesn't really captivate all you can do in film.

The worst piece, is the writing for me. I was mortified by the recylcing of lines and overuse of the cliche and stereotypical moments of many of the characters.

Set wise and location, the aim of drab etc, just came across as dull. There was nothing special about gotham, which is one of the most iconic cities in comicbooks and movies from B89 and BR.

It kinda just perpetuated itself, going through the motions without really doing a great deal of anything, massive plot holes and issues with the 'realism' element being employed, then retracted, making the filmic world it created farcicle.

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

Although I enjoyed this film, there are a few things that I had problems with. Here's my list...
1) No Tatalia (*I believe that's the name of Ra's daughter*)
2) Bruce Wayne revealing his secret identity to Katie Holmes.
3) Lack of Scientific knowledge on The Batman's part.
4) Batman letting Ras die.
5) The suit.
Like I said, even with these setbacks, I still think it was a well-done adaption. However, as I have stated before, "BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES"!!! As far as I am concerned, this series nailed Batman, his supporting characters, and villians like no other incarnation fom the books!!! Although an animated venture, this series should be Nolan's, Burton's, or any other directors' inspiration/ springboard for any live action movie based upon these characters. Furthermore, I feel exactly the same with "SUPERMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES"! Brilliant storytelling at it's very best. I have yet to see these characters more stunning nor alive than in these amazing series. Anyway, that's where my Batman movie would come from. Thanks Bruce Timm, Dini, & company!

 

[NUFFSAID2004]

Umm..Just one more thing I really didn't care for with "Batman Begins".. And that was The Batmobile! Yes it looked pretty cool, but just was not visually the Batmobile, in my opinion. I still think that Tim Burton's first Batmobile remains the very top of the line in looks and character!

 

[GoogleMe94]

totally agreed^^ the batmobile, the tumbler aint. the burton one IS the batmobile, period.


The thing that puzzles me in the debate about Burton's Batman being "Too Dark", a common criticism of Batman Returns, is that many people, pro and anti Burton's Batman, asked for a dark and serious Batman. And it seems to me that WB and Burton took that phrase to heart and made a dark pair of films. Yet, people will complain about things such as the repressed and sullen nature of the Bruce character, Batman killing criminals, the Penguin being freakishly deformed, etc. It occurs to me that the haters of Burton's portrayal wanted a dark film, but not with any of the consequences that come with it. They didn't want to have to deal with any of the things that walk hand in hand with a deeper, darker film, and the facts they'd have to face in a grimly set, and more realistic approach to the raw nature of tragic and malformed people that Batman represents.

So they just wanted a serious Batman, with a superficial, dark visual coating. And thats what we got with Batman Begins, unfortunatly.

 

[Two-Face]

So they just wanted a serious Batman, with a superficial, dark visual coating. And thats what we got with Batman Begins, unfortunatly.

You talk as if it is bad thing, I don't think so.

 

[GoogleMe94]

this thread rocks.

You talk as if it is bad thing, I don't think so.

so you DO want a superficial batman film that is just dark on the outside appearance? wow, shows how deep you really are, if thats really all you want in a batman film. might as well take batman forever, make the villians underplay everything, and make the city look dirty and average, and boom, the perfect fanboy batman film. BOOORRINGG. if there was one word to describe BB, it would "superficial", because the story itself is not very strong at all.

now that i think about it there was another major aspect that begins missed the mark on: the villians. like the saying goes, a hero is only as good as his villians. this was one aspect of the new batman film that i felt was extremly weak on. the villians took up about as much time as keaton did in the 2nd film. but at least you knew enough about batman from the first movie, so you dont need to be JUST about him in the sequel. if the villians are dangerous, evil,a real THREAT to the city, then the hero will look even more needed and vital to the story. in batman begins, in ONLY focused on bruce wayne and hardly at all on the actual threats. that was the big flaw of the new film. hopefully, now that the origin is out of the way (thank GOD, i hate origins) then maybe we will get a good, evil villian in the next one that wont be taken over by bruce wayne.iwont say batman, because it seems we saw waaay too much of bruce in begins, and not enough of the hero himself. which, maybe, wasnt so bad, because bales batman, well, sucked. that robo batsuit, that cowl, those jowls, and that voice...horrible. makes keatons batman look like friggin shakespeare.

ppl say there is too little of batman in Returns or even B89, but there was also way too little of batman himself in begins. i dont really want to see bruce wayne traing or makeing cowls and crap, i want to see batman in action, with minor intervals of wayne doing whateva. but thats just me. we only got to see batman more at the end of the movie. it kind of echoed returns in that sense, only Returns was so good that i didnt notice all that much.

 

[Ibn]

Also hated that Ra's rejuvination through the Lazarus pit wasn't explained. Also didn't like the fact that he was white. I love that Batman's greatest cognitive threat is another race, that race being Arabic. I think that would have made the movie even better seeing as though he was an Arabic eco-terrorist with multiple ethnicities following him. Would have put a capitalization on terrorism, and how it's not only one race of people, with Batman still foiling there schemes in the end. I liked the twist though. Gotta bring Ra's back though. Have Bats find out about the Lazarus pit. Maybe the Lazarus water is what Joker uses as his death grin serum, since the water does drive people crazy, and kills people who don't really need it. Need Ra's back.

I'm going to get slaughtered for this, but I hated the damn clasps, and the fabricy cape. It just makes him look soft to me (most likely b/c the thought of fabric with me = soft). and I absolutely hated that the cape didnt have the hedges at the end, and just looked like a regular cape. I also wish they would have made the symbol a little darker.

If this whole Joker wearing makeup instead of being truly ****ed up stuff is true, than **** Nolan forever. **** him. Green streaks though? I haven't seen what Joker looks like yet, so I'll reserve judgement. I would be okay with it if its the result of a chemical bath, but if its self applied, **** them.

Another pet peeve is Michael Caine. Don't get me wrong, I love him, but I wish they would have gotten a younger Alfred, with the top baldspot and the black hair.

and........................ I kinda liked Katie Holmes.

 

[Two-Face]

this thread rocks.




so you DO want a superficial batman film that is just dark on the outside appearance? wow, shows how deep you really are, if thats really all you want in a batman film. might as well take batman forever, make the villians underplay everything, and make the city look dirty and average, and boom, the perfect fanboy batman film. BOOORRINGG. if there was one word to describe BB, it would "superficial", because the story itself is not very strong at all.

now that i think about it there was another major aspect that begins missed the mark on: the villians. like the saying goes, a hero is only as good as his villians. this was one aspect of the new batman film that i felt was extremly weak on. the villians took up about as much time as keaton did in the 2nd film. but at least you knew enough about batman from the first movie, so you dont need to be JUST about him in the sequel. if the villians are dangerous, evil,a real THREAT to the city, then the hero will look even more needed and vital to the story. in batman begins, in ONLY focused on bruce wayne and hardly at all on the actual threats. that was the big flaw of the new film. hopefully, now that the origin is out of the way (thank GOD, i hate origins) then maybe we will get a good, evil villian in the next one that wont be taken over by bruce wayne.iwont say batman, because it seems we saw waaay too much of bruce in begins, and not enough of the hero himself. which, maybe, wasnt so bad, because bales batman, well, sucked. that robo batsuit, that cowl, those jowls, and that voice...horrible. makes keatons batman look like friggin shakespeare.

ppl say there is too little of batman in Returns or even B89, but there was also way too little of batman himself in begins. i dont really want to see bruce wayne traing or makeing cowls and crap, i want to see batman in action, with minor intervals of wayne doing whateva. but thats just me. we only got to see batman more at the end of the movie. it kind of echoed returns in that sense, only Returns was so good that i didnt notice all that much.

Well I wanted Batman's origin told on screen for a long time sure Batman Begins has changed some stuff. It’s like you want to care for Bruce as well as Batman himself that's why I always enjoy watching Bruce training with Ducard and telling him his fears so I don’t mind waiting for Batman to show up in the second half of BB.

This is movie about Bruce/Batman for god sake the villains I thought there great sure the villains are important but lets not forget the title character as well. Now that Batman’s origin is done in the first we can see more of Batman in TDK. I enjoyed watching Batman Begins one of the best Batman films out there I hope TDK will be better if not better similar to BB.

 

[Palpadious]

"It's not who I am on the inside, it's what I dooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo."

 

[Gilpesh]

So they just wanted a serious Batman, with a superficial, dark visual coating. And thats what we got with Batman Begins, unfortunatly.

The superficial dark visual coating is all we got in Burton's Batman.

Dark =/= Killing

Dark =/= Deformed

Those are the cheap tricks to make someone look dark and disturbed.

 

[BubbaGump]

As much as a love B89, Keaton as Bats/Wayne really had nothing going on.

"I'll be quiet and secluded. Yeah. I"ll keep to myself the entire movie. That'll make the fans think I'm really deep and dark in my long bouts of inner reflection." *thinking about pizza*

 

[El Payaso]

As much as a love B89, Keaton as Bats/Wayne really had nothing going on.

"I'll be quiet and secluded. Yeah. I"ll keep to myself the entire movie. That'll make the fans think I'm really deep and dark in my long bouts of inner reflection." *thinking about pizza*

"I think I'll verbalize everything I do and think. Spoonfeeding is the Batman way"

I don't get this way of reduce movies.

 

[PretentiousMan]

Hilarious thread. Burton fans and Nolan fans suck so badly.

 

[GoogleMe94]

The superficial dark visual coating is all we got in Burton's Batman.

Dark =/= Killing

Dark =/= Deformed

Those are the cheap tricks to make someone look dark and disturbed.

your really not looking into burtons films enough if thats all you think of them. burtons batman films are deeply phycological, far more then anything in BB. it ceratinly isnt useing any "tricks", its plain and simply telling a dark batman story. at least it WAS dark. BB was simply telling bruces origin, which was pretty much done in B89 but thankfully didnt bother to explain all the hows and whys to everything. i find that stuff boring, and thats all BB had. burtons batman films delt with alot more then just retelling us stuff we already knew. BB is fairy dust when compared to the very deep and dark burton batman films. i just dont see the "darkness" in BB.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Hilarious thread. Burton fans and Nolan fans suck so badly.

in a way, i agree with this. even though im more of a burton guy, still, i dont think the debateing and fighting over this will ever stop. personally, i think its a testament to both directors, because obviously there is a 50/50 split between both fans of directors. i prefer burtons interpretation, and if ppl respected that and not flamed that opinion i wouldnt be so hotheaded towards the nolan fans, as ignorant as they can sometimes be.

 

[SelinaAndBruce]

I loved Batman 1989 Batman Returns and Batman Begins but there were things that bugged me about Begins:

The whole Bruce blowing up the ninja compound and not finding out what happened to that murderer. Did the guy get out safe? Was he really a murderer? Did he get the fair trial Bruce insisted he should get? Did he just let a killer go then? And then he saved Ducard and just left him a guy who believed in killing entire civilizations as a necessity in a village and moved on. I mean that's like leaving a passed out terrorist in the ghetto. Did he honestly think that Ducard was just going to give it up and stop killing civilizations. Lame.

Katie Holmes did suck too. No sexual chemistry with Batman. Just preachy as I don't know what. Only in two Batman films did I ever not want Batman with "the girl". Batman Forever and this one. Yes I even wanted Batman with Poison Ivy in B&R mostly because I was hoping she'd kiss him and put him out of his misery. In forever I felt Chase was too ****ty and a tease. She gets Batman all the way to her house after risking people's lives to tongue him down and then she leaves him with blue balls. That's cold. Anyway though Holmes sucked big time and I am glad she is not in TDK.

The reality also sucked in this movie in some instances because it dumbed everything down. Clearly if I am a fan of a man who dresses up like a Bat I have some imagination it is okay to ask me to use it. This movie explained every thing to a tee. I don't need to know how much the Batmobile costs or precisely how fast it goes. I didn't have to know how much Peter Parker paid for his fabric for the Spiderman costume to love Spiderman and damnit I don't care how much the Batsuit cost or what it was going to be used for originally. I don't care if Batman got all the crap off of eBay. Whatever. And why do they have to show him making everything. Part of Batman is seeing him whip out a brand new weapon and use it and surprise a villain and the audience. I think it kind of sucks when I not only before hand see everything in his arsenal but that I know how it was made and everything. It does suck the fun out of it.

I also thought the action sequences were awful. Awfully shot. Even in that immobile Batsuit Burton was able to depict Batman fighting somewhat even if it was not the most impressive but they just said **** it we'll spin the camera a few times and leave it up to the audiences imagination. Actually it's kind of hilarious when you consider they had to tell you the price of everything Batman had and show you making his weapons but they thought you could use your imaginations when it came to the action sequences, the things I think most people were looking forward to!

But I still enjoyed the movie.

 

[WalterKovacs]

i dont get why nobody likes heath ledger

 

[Dfens]

in a way, i agree with this. even though im more of a burton guy, still, i dont think the debateing and fighting over this will ever stop. personally, i think its a testament to both directors, because obviously there is a 50/50 split between both fans of directors. i prefer burtons interpretation, and if ppl respected that and not flamed that opinion i wouldnt be so hotheaded towards the nolan fans, as ignorant as they can sometimes be.

The first thing you can do is get that obnoxious "In Nolan We Have Doubt" thing out of your signature.

 

[Gilpesh]

your really not looking into burtons films enough if thats all you think of them. burtons batman films are deeply phycological, far more then anything in BB. it ceratinly isnt useing any "tricks", its plain and simply telling a dark batman story. at least it WAS dark. BB was simply telling bruces origin, which was pretty much done in B89 but thankfully didnt bother to explain all the hows and whys to everything. i find that stuff boring, and thats all BB had. burtons batman films delt with alot more then just retelling us stuff we already knew. BB is fairy dust when compared to the very deep and dark burton batman films. i just dont see the "darkness" in BB.

Burton's movie had about as much subtext as Hot Topic in the mall.

Batman not killing mass murderers and criminals is darker than just offing them.

Also a dark Batman story is how Batman fights the urge to just kill the Joker even when the Joker hurts those special to Batman.

The second Batman kills anyone, especially the Joker, he's lost everything that makes him the Caped Crusader and turns him into a common killer with better toys. Which is all Burton's Batman was.

And I see you hate character development cause you said it yourself, you hate all those "hows and whys."

 

[Bat Attack]

The first thing you can do is get that obnoxious "In Nolan We Have Doubt" thing out of your signature.

Only after people remove the pompous "In Nolan We Trust" things from their sigs, right? lol.

 

[GoogleMe94]

Only after people remove the pompous "In Nolan We Trust" things from their sigs, right? lol.

LOL t: t:

Burton's movie had about as much subtext as Hot Topic in the mall.

this is such a lame comeback, its not even funny.