Supergirl Tyler Hoechlin IS Superman - Part 2

[Dr.]

How is his arc complete? Because he's not learning how to be a hero anymore? Or [has] to juggle [dual] identities? The fact that he's established makes it far more interesting [] story. Not having to endure his "growing pains" does not mean the story is finished at all. It would be far more interesting at this point in the Berlantiverse to see a hero who is in the next phase of their career. A Tyler Hoechlin Superman series would be a breath of fresh air IMO.

I only mean that this particular iteration of Superman is already established: he’s been in operations for 12 or so years; presumably, CK’s been at the DP for just as long; apparently, Supes/Clark is in a stable/long-term relationship with Lois; etc., etc. So a lot of the key character and story “evolution” moments have already taken place.

I thought “Adventures of Supergirl” and “Last Children of Krypton” worked very well because Superman’s appearance was a “special event” - the first ever live-action pairing of the super cousins. And occasional future appearances could be just as engaging. But a full 22-episode solo spinoff series (about a seasoned, pre-established Superman) would lose its “novelty” pretty quickly, methinks (especially since Supergirl is already covering much the same territory).

 

[BH/HHH]

I only mean that this particular iteration of Superman is already established: he’s been in operations for 12 or so years; presumably, CK’s been at the DP for just as long; apparently, Supes/Clark is in a stable/long-term relationship with Lois; etc., etc. So a lot of the key character and story “evolution” moments have already taken place.

I thought “Adventures of Supergirl” and “Last Children of Krypton” worked very well because Superman’s appearance was a “special event” - the first ever live-action pairing of the super cousins. And occasional future appearances could be just as engaging. But a full 22-episode solo spinoff series (about a seasoned, pre-established Superman) would lose its “novelty” pretty quickly, methinks (especially since Supergirl is already covering much the same territory).

I get that, but I'd love to see a Superman series where he's married to Lois and he has other problems. Like I said they could do them having a son like they currently do in the comics etc. I feel like every CW superhero show has done the eveoltion of the hero to death so it would be great to see something further along for a hero.

I age it been a special event was great and if it's all we ever get then I'm greatful for what we have but there people want to see more of this Superman. I actually agree 22 episodes would probably be abit much but a mini series would be fantastic.

 

[Ghost_Rider]

He isn't though he's been warmly received both critically and generally. He'll be back I'm sure of it.

These shows feed off of desperate fan service, so I'm sure the producers will try to get him back as a limited guest star, who's still used as a means to forward Kara's development instead of his own.

As far as being warmly received, only by CW Supergirl's tiny fan base.

I doubt many in the general audience would be able to take his cheesy version seriously amidst the divisive 'full house'-esque tone of this show.

Don't forget among the DCEU fan base, they firmly believe Cavill was warmly received by fans (lol).

The reality is none of these guys will come close to being accepted by the GA as well as Chris Reeve. He was a generation's Superman. This current gen doesn't really have a standout actor in the same position anymore, sadly.

Sadly, even Welling/Routh got far more passionate positivity from fans than Cavill/Hoechilin.
Remember the casting wars and the passionate Welling fans VS Routh fans. It was brutal.
The chaos in Bluetights.com, IESB and major CBM news sites. I'm pretty sure even on this board there's a giant Tom Welling worship group from back then.

 

[Kelly]

These shows feed off of desperate fan service, so I'm sure the producers will try to get him back as a limited guest star, who's still used as a means to forward Kara's development instead of his own.

As far as being warmly received, only by CW Supergirl's tiny fan base.

I doubt many in the general audience would be able to take his cheesy version seriously amidst the divisive 'full house'-esque tone of this show.

Don't forget among the DCEU fan base, they firmly believe Cavill was warmly received by fans (lol).

The reality is none of these guys will come close to being accepted by the GA as well as Chris Reeve. He was a generation's Superman. This current gen doesn't really have a standout actor in the same position anymore, sadly.

Sadly, even Welling/Routh got far more passionate positivity from fans than Cavill/Hoechilin.
Remember the casting wars and the passionate Welling fans VS Routh fans. It was brutal.
The chaos in Bluetights.com, IESB and major CBM news sites. I'm pretty sure even on this board there's a giant Tom Welling worship group from back then.

You crack me up....t:

As far as the bolded, true...it took the girl to get the reaction from Roth Head of WB that Melissa's "audition" got...first time he had gotten the same feeling from the S since Reeve.

As far as the casting wars........none of that will be happening here, no matter how much you try. I'm sure you don't want to spend too much time with us "desperate fans"

 

[Kelly]

I get that, but I'd love to see a Superman series where he's married to Lois and he has other problems. Like I said they could do them having a son like they currently do in the comics etc. I feel like every CW superhero show has done the eveoltion of the hero to death so it would be great to see something further along for a hero.

I age it been a special event was great and if it's all we ever get then I'm greatful for what we have but there people want to see more of this Superman. I actually agree 22 episodes would probably be abit much but a mini series would be fantastic.

I could see that, and then we would have the "Fantastic" family that the "Fantastic 4" fans have been wanting.

 

[LL2K2]

The chaos in Bluetights.com, IESB and major CBM news sites. I'm pretty sure even on this board there's a giant Tom Welling worship group from back then.

They're still around.

As for Hoechlin's appeal...

(Credit: cwsupergirlgifs via hoechloin/Tumblr)

 

[Ghost_Rider]

And we had similar hyperbolic comments about Welling and Routh back in the day, and they had far more fan support than Hoechilin in the days before Tumblr.

Hoechilin will fly down the same path of mediocrity. Perhaps on a level far worse, since he's just a guest star on a show about Supergirl.

I honestly blame Cavill and Snyder for standards in Superman being so low right now.

 

[BH/HHH]

These shows feed off of desperate fan service, so I'm sure the producers will try to get him back as a limited guest star, who's still used as a means to forward Kara's development instead of his own.

As far as being warmly received, only by CW Supergirl's tiny fan base.

I doubt many in the general audience would be able to take his cheesy version seriously amidst the divisive 'full house'-esque tone of this show.

Don't forget among the DCEU fan base, they firmly believe Cavill was warmly received by fans (lol).

The reality is none of these guys will come close to being accepted by the GA as well as Chris Reeve. He was a generation's Superman. This current gen doesn't really have a standout actor in the same position anymore, sadly.

Sadly, even Welling/Routh got far more passionate positivity from fans than Cavill/Hoechilin.
Remember the casting wars and the passionate Welling fans VS Routh fans. It was brutal.
The chaos in Bluetights.com, IESB and major CBM news sites. I'm pretty sure even on this board there's a giant Tom Welling worship group from back then.

Why are you comparing to Chris Reeve? He's forever going to be known as Superman. Probably same way Downey Jr will always be Iron Man and in twenty years people probably won't be as accepting as that new guy.

So take it as just the comics fam vase compare him to Welling, Routy and Cavill and take in the comments and reviews. Hoechlin's been very warmly accepted and has gotten mostly praise.

Tbh I don't really get what you're trying to prove he Really? That no one will ever be accepted as Reeve? That's a no brainer. The fact is Hoechlin is the first Superman in a long time to be praised as much as he has. That's not in doubt at all, even if it just is in fan circles. Although reviews tofor certain sites that review other TV shows, movies, etc have also praised him and they're not just in these fan circles.

I'm a DCEU fan and the DCEU dabs I know on here do love Cavill but they don't think he's been accepted wholly by the fan base. To say we do is ridiculous, we just love Cavill.

Anyway, think we can leave it there because we aren't going to agree on this.

 

[misslane38]

The fact is Hoechlin is the first Superman in a long time to be praised as much as he has

Hoechlin has been praised but I think he has a long way to go to rival Reeve in esteem and popularity.

 

[BH/HHH]

Hoechlin has been praised but I think he has a long way to go to rival Reeve in esteem and popularity.

Again who said he is going to or that he has? Cause I certainly didn't say that nor do I think he will. But also he doesn't need to; the fact is the guys been praised more than any Superman in a long time that's the point I'm making.

 

[misslane38]

Again who said he is going to or that he has? Cause I certainly didn't say that nor do I think he will. But also he doesn't need to; the fact is the guys been praised more than any Superman in a long time that's the point I'm making.

You said Hoechlin has been praised as much as Reeve, or as "he" has. The "he" pronoun was unclear, and you said that with no qualifiers or modifiers like "nearly" or "almost." So it seemed you were comparing TH to CR. I guess not.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Again who said he is going to or that he has? Cause I certainly didn't say that nor do I think he will. But also he doesn't need to; the fact is the guys been praised more than any Superman in a long time that's the point I'm making.

Pretty much, the reception to him was the most positive reaction a live action Superman has seen in decades, Hoechlin owned the role and respect was shown to the character as both Clark and Superman.

 

[misslane38]

Pretty much, the reception to him was the most positive reaction a live action Superman has seen in decades, Hoechlin owned the role and respect was shown to the character as both Clark and Superman.

I wouldn't go that far. Hoechlin didn't fully portray what a protagonist and multidimensional Superman and Clark would be. It was a limited role and thus a limited characterization and performance by nature. It remains to be seen if he and the showrunners and writers could actually make an expansion of his character work as successfully as the glimpse of him we got did.

 

[BH/HHH]

You said Hoechlin has been praised as much as Reeve, or as "he" has. The "he" pronoun was unclear, and you said that with no qualifiers or modifiers like "nearly" or "almost." So it seemed you were comparing TH to CR. I guess not.

It really wasn't unclear at all. I said "The fact is Hoechlin is the first Superman in a long time to be praised as much as he has". The he is clearly Tyler in that comment. Never even mentioned Reeve in that comment.

Pretty much, the reception to him was the most positive reaction a live action Superman has seen in decades, Hoechlin owned the role and respect was shown to the character as both Clark and Superman.

Exactly, in my time having the internet (since the early 2000s) there's been Tom Welling, Brandon Routh, Henry Cavil and Tyler Hoechlin in live action. Each one until Tyler Hoechlin has had a mixed response. I've personally been a fan of them all myself but I've never seen an overwhelming positive response from the gate for any of those Superman except Tyler's.

 

[BH/HHH]

I wouldn't go that far. Hoechlin didn't fully portray what a protagonist and multidimensional Superman and Clark would be. It was a limited role and thus a limited characterization and performance by nature. It remains to be seen if he and the showrunners and writers could actually make an expansion of his character work as successfully as the glimpse of him we got did.

It's actually having you're own opinion and the response to Tyler has been overwhelmingly positive in most circles. Tyler did own the dual roles IMO, if he didn't for you then fair enough but don't try to tell people they're wrong for thinking so.

 

[Ghost_Rider]

Why are you comparing to Chris Reeve? He's forever going to be known as Superman. Probably same way Downey Jr will always be Iron Man and in twenty years people probably won't be as accepting as that new guy.

So take it as just the comics fam vase compare him to Welling, Routy and Cavill and take in the comments and reviews. Hoechlin's been very warmly accepted and has gotten mostly praise.

Tbh I don't really get what you're trying to prove he Really? That no one will ever be accepted as Reeve? That's a no brainer. The fact is Hoechlin is the first Superman in a long time to be praised as much as he has. That's not in doubt at all, even if it just is in fan circles. Although reviews tofor certain sites that review other TV shows, movies, etc have also praised him and they're not just in these fan circles.

I'm a DCEU fan and the DCEU dabs I know on here do love Cavill but they don't think he's been accepted wholly by the fan base. To say we do is ridiculous, we just love Cavill.

Anyway, think we can leave it there because we aren't going to agree on this.

Like I said before though, you could find similar hyperbolic comments praising Welling and Routh on the net. Especially 10 years ago. Take a look at some ancient Superman threads on this very board, for example, and you'll be blown away.

They are less praised now because they are no longer the flavor of the week.

That laughable "Tom Welling For Superman" movement was stronger and more passionate, sadly, than any response to Hoechilin, by the CW Supergirl's tiny fanbase.

The only thing Tyler has going for him now is he managed to be more preferable to some than the very low bar set by Henry Cavill.

Chris Reeve can be topped. They just haven't found the right "actor" to do it yet, alongside the right approach from the producers and WB. Hopefully the next \S/ reboot takes some inspiration from the Chris Evans Captain America films in their approach to the character. Then, it can be done.

 

[BH/HHH]

Like I said before though, you could find similar hyperbolic comments praising Welling and Routh on the net. Especially 10 years ago. Take a look at some ancient Superman threads on this very board, for example, and you'll be blown away.

They are less praised now because they are no longer the flavor of the week.

That laughable "Tom Welling For Superman" movement was stronger and more passionate, sadly, than any response to Hoechilin, by the CW Supergirl's tiny fanbase.

The only thing Tyler has going for him now is he managed to be more preferable to some than the very low bar set by Henry Cavill.

Chris Reeve can be topped. They just haven't found the right "actor" to do it yet, alongside the right approach from the producers and WB. Hopefully the next \S/ reboot takes some inspiration from the Chris Evans Captain America films in their approach to the character. Then, it can be done.

I'm talking about critical aswell as fans though.

Seems more to me cause you aren't that impressed that others can't be. You think Cavill set a low bar that's your opinion but not everyone does. You're basically saying people are wrong for liking Hoechlin's Superman so much which is ridiculous. The reason people loved it so much is he and the show creators got Superman how a lot of people want him. Nothing to do with having low bars set.

You seem to have this thing where you think Reeve has to be topped. It's not about topping what came before it's about making the part your own which Tyler did!

Fact is he's been praised all over with very little negative reaction. That hasn't happened for a Superman in decades.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/collider.com/supergirl-best-superman-tyler-hoechlin/amp/?client=safari

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/moviepilot.com/posts/4107120/amp?client=safari

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/superg...-hoechlin-is-the-best-damn-superman-in-years/

http://screencrush.com/supergirl-season-2-premiere-review-superman/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.fo...rgirl-season-2-review-superman/?client=safari

http://m.uk.ign.com/articles/2016/10/11/how-supergirl-is-getting-superman-right

http://www.kryptonsite.com/a-superman-spinoff-for-tyler-hoechlin/

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/comicb...t-superman-for-the-rebirth-era/?client=safari

http://www.comicmix.com/2016/10/16/john-ostrander-making-a-better-superman/

 

[Superchan]

I wouldn't go that far. Hoechlin didn't fully portray what a protagonist and multidimensional Superman and Clark would be. It was a limited role and thus a limited characterization and performance by nature.It remains to be seen if he and the showrunners and writers could actually make an expansion of his character work as successfully as the glimpse of him we got did.

That's your opinion so don't say it as if it's fact. IMO Hoechlin's superman had more charm, charisma and characterization in 80 minutes of tv than Cavill had in 5 hours of big budget cinema. It's sad to think that a cheesy network like the CW can give us a more memorable superman than the WB could with hours of cinema and 100s of millions of dollars. Kudos to Zack Snyder!!

That's bogus though. The Supergirl series itself has a very divisive and mixed response (look at it's mediocre IMDB scores and RT Audience rankings).

Therefore, Hoechilin getting approval from the show's recurring viewers doesn't mean much, when the show itself is a mixed bag that most audiences have stopped watching (even on CBS, ratings were sinking fast).

For god's sake stop spouting nonsense! if an actor gives an amazing performance in a bad movie/tv show, he or she wouldn't deserve acclaim because said movie/tv show is bad?
Ben Affleck was in one of the biggest s**t fests of 2016, a film affectionately known as Dawn of Justice but just because the film was laughable doesn't mean his performance as batman wasn't excellent.

 

[misslane38]

That's your opinion so don't say it as if it's fact. IMO Hoechlin's superman had more charm, charisma and characterization in 80 minutes of tv than Cavill had in 5 hours of big budget cinema. It's sad to think that a cheesy network like the CW can give us a more memorable superman than the WB could with hours of cinema and 100s of millions of dollars. Kudos to Zack Snyder!!

I didn't suggest that what I was saying was anything other than my opinion. I even used the phrase "I wouldn't go that far" (emphasis on the "I") as my opening statement followed by commentary that elaborated on that perspective. I shouldn't have to put "IMO" into every post for clarification of my meaning or for softening of impact. If you'll also notice, I didn't compare Hoechlin's Superman to other Supermen in terms of charm. I was responding to someone who said he "owned the role" and that the role itself showed due "respect" to the character. Since the role and character of Superman, especially the fully fleshed out versions with arcs of their own, require more than just charm, I don't think it's possible to say a version that was just a supporting character in another person's story who is largely a static character as a temporary guest on the show fully embodied the role enough to own it or to show it full respect. In terms of character development, as opposed to characterization, Hoechlin's Superman is far behind. In short, there is more to Superman/Clark than charm.

For god's sake stop spouting nonsense! if an actor gives an amazing performance in a bad movie/tv show, he or she wouldn't deserve acclaim because said movie/tv show is bad?
Ben Affleck was in one of the biggest s**t fests of 2016, a film affectionately known as Dawn of Justice but just because the film was laughable doesn't mean his performance as batman wasn't excellent.

So you get on my case about respecting opinions by demanding I state my opinions as opinions as clearly as possible, but it's okay for you to label other people's thoughts and feelings "nonsense"? No.

 

[Kelly]

Guys....really?

 

[misslane38]

It really wasn't unclear at all. I said "The fact is Hoechlin is the first Superman in a long time to be praised as much as he has". The he is clearly Tyler in that comment. Never even mentioned Reeve in that comment.

You had previously been discussing Reeve, so the "he" was unclear. At least it was to me, so unless you're calling me a liar, maybe just drop it.

Each one until Tyler Hoechlin has had a mixed response. I've personally been a fan of them all myself but I've never seen an overwhelming positive response from the gate for any of those Superman except Tyler's.

They're just not comparable, in my view. Welling wasn't playing a fully formed Superman. He was playing a teenage Clark Kent. Routh and Cavill played characters who were the leads of their respective narratives, so their performances and the demands of their character arcs, which they actually had as opposed to Hoechlin, made it so their characters were challenged, examined, and developed more. Hoechlin's character was in a very unique position that no other version has ever been in. Hoechlin himself said as much in interviews, like the one he did for AOL and for Empire:

For me, it captures everything about Superman in this whole thing. I really tried to lean on that, especially it being a big character coming into a world where the title is character is not him. It’s not his origin story; it’s not about him. Everything for me in this was support. He's there to support Supergirl, he's there to help her, if and when she needs it. And to impart wisdom where he can, but at this point of this story, I don't think anything is about him. You know what I mean? When he's Clark, yeah, it can be about Clark, and it's about his work and it's about his relationship with Lois and stuff. We're not really there for that.

He has acknowledged the differences in what he had to do. The fact that the character is coming into a show where Kara is the point of view character, so we see him through her eyes, and he's playing a well-established Superman, means that the way people will watch him and engage with him is the way Kara does. Like her scene with Clark in the street after his phone call with Lois, Kara sees him with rose-colored glasses, and as a result so does the audience. He's got it all together. He's amazing. The public in that world have also had over a decade to get to know him and fall in love with him; thus he's treated like a beloved celebrity instead of a stranger under scrutiny. The other takes to which Hoechlin has been compared were not only playing characters who were going through the early stages of their career, but they were playing lead protagonists. None of which means you or anyone else can't like Hoechlin's Superman, just that he can't really be compared to others in a completely fair way. The comparisons can only be done halfway, since we only got to see a fraction of the character in Hoechlin's guest role.

It's actually having you're own opinion and the response to Tyler has been overwhelmingly positive in most circles. Tyler did own the dual roles IMO, if he didn't for you then fair enough but don't try to tell people they're wrong for thinking so.

I haven't denied the positive response to Tyler, nor did I tell anyone they were wrong. I had a positive response to him, like him a lot, and would be happy if he had his own show. I said that "I wouldn't go that far" in praising Hoechlin in the very specific way that someone else did. I didn't say they couldn't go that far or anyone else couldn't. I said that I wasn't capable of doing that, and then I explained my reasons why. My reason is, to me, you can't "own" the dual roles when neither of those roles were fleshed out.

 

[BH/HHH]

You had previously been discussing Reeve, so the "he" was unclear. At least it was to me, so unless you're calling me a liar, maybe just drop it.

Me drop it? Ha!

They're just not comparable, in my view. Welling wasn't playing a fully formed Superman. He was playing a teenage Clark Kent. Routh and Cavill played characters who were the leads of their respective narratives, so their performances and the demands of their character arcs, which they actually had as opposed to Hoechlin, made it so their characters were challenged, examined, and developed more. Hoechlin's character was in a very unique position that no other version has ever been in. Hoechlin himself said as much in interviews, like the one he did for AOL and for Empire:

For me, it captures everything about Superman in this whole thing. I really tried to lean on that, especially it being a big character coming into a world where the title is character is not him. It’s not his origin story; it’s not about him. Everything for me in this was support. He's there to support Supergirl, he's there to help her, if and when she needs it. And to impart wisdom where he can, but at this point of this story, I don't think anything is about him. You know what I mean? When he's Clark, yeah, it can be about Clark, and it's about his work and it's about his relationship with Lois and stuff. We're not really there for that.

He has acknowledged the differences in what he had to do. The fact that the character is coming into a show where Kara is the point of view character, so we see him through her eyes, and he's playing a well-established Superman, means that the way people will watch him and engage with him is the way Kara does. Like her scene with Clark in the street after his phone call with Lois, Kara sees him with rose-colored glasses, and as a result so does the audience. He's got it all together. He's amazing. The public in that world have also had over a decade to get to know him and fall in love with him; thus he's treated like a beloved celebrity instead of a stranger under scrutiny. The other takes to which Hoechlin has been compared were not only playing characters who were going through the early stages of their career, but they were playing lead protagonists. None of which means you or anyone else can't like Hoechlin's Superman, just that he can't really be compared to others in a completely fair way. The comparisons can only be done halfway, since we only got to see a fraction of the character in Hoechlin's guest role.

Whether there's differences or not they're all the same character just at different points in there careers and whether ones the main star or a supporting star is neither here nor there. You don't write the rule book on whether or not people can compare these characters. Even going by your rules what does it say the the one whose been critically better received is the supporting character.

I haven't denied the positive response to Tyler, nor did I tell anyone they were wrong. I had a positive response to him, like him a lot, and would be happy if he had his own show. I said that "I wouldn't go that far" in praising Hoechlin in the very specific way that someone else did. I didn't say they couldn't go that far or anyone else couldn't. I said that I wasn't capable of doing that, and then I explained my reasons why. My reason is, to me, you can't "own" the dual roles when neither of those roles were fleshed out.

Well I and many others disagree with you. Was Brandon Rouths Superman fleshed out as you say? Not really. Tyler Hoechlin actually got to act in his two appearances. He had the tension with Jonn, big brother moments with Kara, authoritive moments, comedic moments and we got to see how much he cared about his cousin.

 

[X Knight]

Tyler's Superman was the closest to my "ideal" Superman. He was the Superman I had been wanting to see for a very long time.

 

[BH/HHH]

Tyler's Superman was the closest to my "ideal" Superman. He was the Superman I had been wanting to see for a very long time.

Same here, I have a version in my mind and he's the closest they've ever gotten to it. He's seriously like 95% like my version. I feel like I need to see more of this Superman.

 

[X Knight]

Same here, I have a version in my mind and he's the closest they've ever gotten to it. He's seriously like 95% like my version. I feel like I need to see more of this Superman.

yep.

it's like if they could merge the rugged physicality of Cavill's Superman with the spirit/personality of Tyler's Superman/Clark.

that would be my ideal Superman.

same with Supergirl. Take the adorkable personality of Melissa's Supergirl and merge that with the looks of Laura's Supergirl or even Helen's Supergirl.

that would be my ideal Superman.