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Discussion in 'Webb's Spider-Man' started by Thread Manager, Aug 27, 2012.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]362803[/split]
There will be chance to do the Death of Gwen Stacy story arc. Should it be done exactly like the comics, done different from the comic or not at all?
If they do it when should it happen movie 2 or movie 3?
I don't really see how not killing gwen makes a better movie... When shed just essentially become another mj ......
And dagen. The way you talk about her potential death is as if we're sentencing a real human being to that fate... this is fiction and story telling.....
Emma want's Gwen's Fate to stay true to the books
Spidey kills Gwen? I must have missed that one.
she was referring to the much debated neck snap. She didn't go into detail about it.. but the debate still rages today if peter accidentally did the final blow... or if she was dead before the goblin threw her. Either way.. her fate was sealed by the goblin, and Peter still blamed himself for it.
I just did some quick checking on it. I don't think I ever knew about the "Snap" being there.
glad to have helped. yeah... it's a pretty famous moment, and mystery that was never solved. Her neck was indeed broken. But that doesn't mean that's what killed her (obviously she would have died anyway though) but.. she could have been killed before the fall, or out of shock from the fall.
Even if you had the Green Goblin, couldn't Spidey just catch her and snap her neck in any real scene?
yeah, but it takes away the action of his greatest foe...
it'd sorta be like having poison ivy shoot Babs in the spine, and beat the hell out of jason todd. it's just not the same.
This operates under the assumption that that's the only way for her character and the relationship to be written. As if all there is is what's been done before. Which isn't true at all.
And any kind of well done fiction would encourage that. We're supposed to develop connections with characters. Why wouldn't I care enough to fight as though she were real? If I didn't then that would mean that the writing, directing, and acting are inferior. So, I guess the real question here is: Why aren't YOU fighting for the character as if she were real? Do you feel as though Marc Webb, Emma Stone, and/or the writers portrayed Gwen poorly?
But isn't the fact you care this much about not wanting her to die, that it's further proof that it'd be an incredibly dramatic and emotionally driven moment? I think that's just more reason to kill her off.
I love Emma as Gwen, but to me, her death makes the series that much more real, more powerful and character driven. The "with great power comes great responsibility" was only very briefly touched upon in this film unlike it's predecessor. I think Emma/Web has portrayed Gwen PERFECTLY. and this is the very reason so many are so attached to her, and base their reasonings on not killing her on their already garnished love and attachment to her. (same as people did in the comics).
and like the comics, this film series could really hit a high relevance, yes some fans like yourself will be upset and angry (just like fans did when gwen died in the books) but any film that successfully invokes an emotion from you is a successful film. Because it made you feel.
I really don't think Gwen living could go anywhere but "o they're so cute together" without treading on comic MJ's territory (the moment gwen went after lizard with a trophy is actually more in line with MJ's character already) (like when MJ beat the crap out of Chameleon with a baseball bat in the comics).
The spider-man mytho's are as tragic as they are light hearted. You don't properly capture spider-man without him feeling as i he has the weight of the world on his shoulders "you do too much, you're not super-man you know".
Gwen's death in the movies, at the hands of peter's irresponsibility, and by not heeding George's warning... is EXTREMELY powerful (i know you wont see it that way, but it is.) because it drives home the great power and great responsibility further than Ben's death did. It's also about the loss of adolescence. And usher's in peter to become an adult.
but... truth be told, you will argue everything i said, you won't agree with any of it. So.. then can we just agree to disagree??
I'll just leave you with this. There's a reason why that story is so iconic.
This is the biggest thing about her death, and this is how I play it out.
How did Gwen die? Green Goblin dropped her from the bridge and Spiderman tried to save her. When his web caught her, in the process she got whip lashed and her neck snapped from how fast she pulled back from the inertia of the fall.
So in moral terms, did Spiderman kill Gwen? No. But he certainly was of no help. If Norman didn't drop her, she would be alive probably; it was his actions and responsibility of the situation.
Gravity killed her, really.
Okay... so here's a summary of the reasons why Gwen Stacy's death may not be the best direction for the current trilogy to take; especially if it is executed like in the comics:
1. It is retreading previously trodden ground as opposed to exploring something new and different. Worse, it begs comparison with the original; which will almost certainly be seen as superior owing to the nostalgia attached to the latter. Meaning, the movie would be setting itself up to fail.
2. It will be less impactful than the comic books. Aside from coming off weaker than in the comics, the fact that the character's name is 'Gwen Stacy' means the audience will expect this outcome from the very get go. Part of the reason what made Gwen's death so compelling and effective in the comics is because it was such a shocking twist. You can't have that anymore because the love interest's name is 'Gwen Stacy'. Now, had her name been 'Mary Jane' or 'Betty Brant' instead... then maybe it could have worked.
3. There may not be enough time. To me, this is the biggest issue. Th movie has to operate and tell its story within a fixed run time (approx. 2 hours, if I'm not mistaken). The moviemakers can't 'make it longer' just because they have more 'story' to tell. And Gwen Stacy's death would be a very big story to tell. The movie already has a lot of storylines to get through - Man In Shadows and the fates of Peter Parker's parents, Osborn and his illness, and the hunt for Uncle Ben's killer. Cramming in Gwen's death on top of all this carries the risk that all these storylines won't have time to be developed properly or cut altogether. The worst thing you can do with the Death of Gwen Stacy storyline that you can do is not divert enough time to it. And with so many other storylines to juggle, that is likely to happen if it's done in this trilogy.
I dont agree with any of that.
This isn't retreaded territory... So the scenario in spidey 1 was about choice, Not mistakes, and who's to say goblin is the only villain? There's plenty of ways to set it apart further. And its less impact? do you know how many movies are adapted from books that only get one film and tell award winning impactful and emotional stories? "The Help" ring a bell (for a recent example)
And emma's gwen would get two films to add to her. Look at how many people love her already on here...
The retreading I'm talking about is in regards to the comic books where Gwen Stacy died; not the Raimi movies.
Regarding book adaptations, they are an entirely beast altogether. Those, much like autobiographies, are faithful adaptations are trying to recreate the original in a new medium where as movies like TASM are interpretative adaptations and are trying to tell original stories in new ways.
How many people of the general audience actually knows that Gwen Stacy dies? I saw the first Spider-Man with people who knew little to nothing about the Green Goblin. The GA isn't that informed about the early years of Spider-Man to begin with.
Take Immortalfire, who didn't even know about the neck snap, and I take it he's a Spider-Man fan. So just imagine the General Audience.
The Death of Gwen Stacy is one of the most emotional and best comic book moments ever. It needs to be done!
It's kind of why I want webb to do it, I really can't name another comic book director who could pull off such an emotional moment. And they have the two leads who could execute it well, performance-wise.
But you do realise comic book readers are an extremely small part of the general audience right?
Yes, I'm aware of it. However, there's also Google. And one of the top things that pop up regarding Gwen Stacy is that she dies in the comics. Also, it's also mentioned repeatedly in the mainstream media.
most people don't research characters in films online... only we do that because we love the genre....
people didn't know who the green goblin was (and their was google then), nor did they know who gwen stacy was in spider-man 3 (or that she died), and even though she was in spidey 3... people STILL didn't know who she was in this film...
so yeah... you give people far too much credit.
I guess Bane breaking Batman's back in The Dark Knight Rises wasn't that great since everyone was expecting it
You have to realize that most people in the general audience only know what has been shown in the movies. If Gwen was the love interest in SM1, and GG killed her, then it would not work in this film. But that's not the case.
Why is this poll closed?
Anyway,I'd have picked At the end of the second movie,and have it happen like the comics.Have MJ introduced in this film,and let her and Pete get together in the 3rd.
Unfortunately,I think this is going to be "Gwen's trilogy" much as Raimi's was MJ's.Why can't they both be featured equally?