The Amazing Spider-Man When and how should Gwen Stacy die? - Part 1

[spidergeek232]

We will probably not for a very, very long time have the chance to see the Death of Gwen Stacy story be adapted to the big screen again. The next reboot won't want to build up the Peter and Gwen relationship all over again, especially not since it's so well handled in Webb's story (so far). The next reboot wouldn't want to be too similar to this one.

So this might be the only chance we get for an extremely long time to finally get this epic moment on the big screen, one of the most legendary comic book moments ever in fact.

Add to that:

1) That Webb loves that story arc and has hinted at it in interviews several times. The fact that Webb, a character director who really gets emotions, seems eager to do this story is a huge opportunity. Don't waste that!

2) That Arad, who's the big boss of all this, and has alot to say in regards to the story, hinted at it as well in an interview. He basically said that they used Gwen in ASM because of her famous story and ultimate fate.

3) That Emma herself almost seems to demand this event to happen in this trilogy in several interviews. She's mentioned it so many times how much she wants it to happen and that it should happen exactly like the comic books, that it almost seems as if she's told by Arad/Webb that it's the plan and now she's hinting at it. She should know at least something about the plans of her character in the trilogy.

4)

Spoiler

The whole promise thing at the end of ASM is an extremely clear hint that it's almost impossible to miss it. To not think that this point alone is enough to see that Gwen's ultimate fate is supposed to happen in this trilogy whether you want it or not is just stupid and ignorant.

5) Norman Osborn has this huge presence in the movie without being seen. We know for sure that he will be the big main of this trilogy. Sure, Green Goblin could appear without killing off Gwen, but do some simple logic thinking, put two and two togehter and you'll see how much they build up for this to happen.

It WILL happen, and I love that!

My God....you are a genius! LOL, but for real, I agree with this a lot! It's gonna happen! But I can't tell if they're hinting for it to happen in the 2nd movie or 3rd movie. I wonder if they'll do more than 3???? Hmmmm.....

 

[©KAW]

.... um people don't want that either. which is why many prefer she dies in the middle of the trilogy rather than the end

I'm against it. And what I'm against shall not stand.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm against it. And what I'm against shall not stand.

stand... maybe not. so instead it shall hover above you and taunt

 

[©KAW]

The third film is better, you can build up Norman Osborn in the sequel, and then have Green Goblin in the third along with Gwen Stacy's death.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The third film is better, you can build up Norman Osborn in the sequel, and then have Green Goblin in the third along with Gwen Stacy's death.

you can still have norman in the third. he doesn't have to die in the second. I'd have gwen die at the very end of 2 and feature norman's downfall in 3.

 

[AF3619]

The third film is better, you can build up Norman Osborn in the sequel, and then have Green Goblin in the third along with Gwen Stacy's death.

end the trilogy in a sad note.. maybe they don´t end up killing her i mean if they bring MJ people will say is copying Raimi´s trilogy idk,or introduce MJ before Gwen dies as a friend and then in the third film as his love interest and they live happily ever after

 

[spideyboy_1111]

id prefer MJ be introduced in the 2nd film.. that way we get the whole gwen/mj banter. and she should be a turn-off party girl to peter (that will actually in it's self set apart from the raimi trilogy)


then have that iconic (and well written) moment in the 3rd film having MJ visit peter to console him over his loss.. and he yells at her and insults her but she stays anyway, and takes care of him. proving there's alot more left to her. Then end the franchise on a high note... with a strong nod of him and mj getting together in the end and their destiny together.


if it were 4 films.. i wouldn't be opposed to felicia showing up in the third... and peter using her as escapism (it'd actually be kinda an interesting contrast to superhero films... and the raimi films, instead of "spider-man no more", make it "peter-parker no more" and basically he get's reckless and shrugs his responsibilities out of his depression and guilt of losing gwen (in a perfect world it'd also be the great place for the black suit), but i'd make mj be his beacon of hope, and the one to ground him back to earth from all that spiraling mess..

but alas.. i don't see the black suit, nor probably felicia showing up in this series unless it's extended to more than 3 films

 

[©KAW]

What, Gwen was tacked on and made no sense in Raimi's films?

Leave MJ out until the third film.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What, Gwen was tacked on and made no sense in Raimi's films?

Leave MJ out until the third film.

??? i wasn't talking about anyone getting "tacked on" nor the raimi films take on her...


MJ and Harry should really be introduced (as a couple) in the 2nd film to start building his supporting cast.

plus, it'd be a great time for Aunt May to set him up on his landmark blind date (that he doesn't want to go on due to his feelings for gwen) (much like the comics) especially after she saw him upset at the end of AMZ. (and gwen get's incredibly jealous of)

she just shouldn't have alot of screen time. Gwen's gotta have the focus through-out the whole film

 

[Human Torch]

id prefer MJ be introduced in the 2nd film.. that way we get the whole gwen/mj banter. and she should be a turn-off party girl to peter (that will actually in it's self set apart from the raimi trilogy)


then have that iconic (and well written) moment in the 3rd film having MJ visit peter to console him over his loss.. and he yells at her and insults her but she stays anyway, and takes care of him. proving there's alot more left to her. Then end the franchise on a high note... with a strong nod of him and mj getting together in the end and their destiny together.

I agree.I'd love to see it turn out that way,but I have a feeling MJ in this series will be about as relevent as Gwen was in SM 3.

 

[Venom'sDad]

MJ won't appear until after Gwen is dead. Like "Star Wars" she's Spidey's version of "A New Hope".

 

[Human Torch]

But isn't Gwen supposed to be Peter's true love?


No.....There is another....t:

 

[spideyboy_1111]

MJ won't appear until after Gwen is dead. Like "Star Wars" she's Spidey's version of "A New Hope".

see i think that's a mistake. it's using a formula of "one out the door here comes another" when in MJ's case i think it's better to have her already there. not to mention Mj and gwens banter is pretty fun in the early comics.

 

[Venom'sDad]

see i think that's a mistake. it's using a formula of "one out the door here comes another" when in MJ's case i think it's better to have her already there. not to mention Mj and gwens banter is pretty fun in the early comics.

It may and it may not be, either way it will work. I just think Webb(if he choose to return) is trying to establish something far more compelling than what Raimi has done. Therefor, his approach is quite different, from what Raimi approach was, and what we as fan believe is the more conventional thing to do.

 

[spidergeek232]

id prefer MJ be introduced in the 2nd film.. that way we get the whole gwen/mj banter. and she should be a turn-off party girl to peter (that will actually in it's self set apart from the raimi trilogy)


then have that iconic (and well written) moment in the 3rd film having MJ visit peter to console him over his loss.. and he yells at her and insults her but she stays anyway, and takes care of him. proving there's alot more left to her. Then end the franchise on a high note... with a strong nod of him and mj getting together in the end and their destiny together.


if it were 4 films.. i wouldn't be opposed to felicia showing up in the third... and peter using her as escapism (it'd actually be kinda an interesting contrast to superhero films... and the raimi films, instead of "spider-man no more", make it "peter-parker no more" and basically he get's reckless and shrugs his responsibilities out of his depression and guilt of losing gwen (in a perfect world it'd also be the great place for the black suit), but i'd make mj be his beacon of hope, and the one to ground him back to earth from all that spiraling mess..

but alas.. i don't see the black suit, nor probably felicia showing up in this series unless it's extended to more than 3 films

Yes, yes! You actually understand it! I could see it at the end of the third movie:

Peter is in his room, sobbing over the recent events (Gwen's death, Norman's death, even though he's the villain, he still feels guilty.)

Mary Jane comes into room. She looks like she was crying a bit, as well.

MJ: Peter are you--
Peter: Get out...
MJ: What?

Peter stands up from his bed.

Peter: I said get out! Get the hell out of here! Shouldn't you be at some party getting wasted and what not, like most of you usually do!? Leave 'cause I'm sure you hate sick beds...! Leave...

Peter sits back down and breaks down. Mary Jane opens the door ready to leave, but she stops and looks at Peter. She then shuts the door. She goes over and sits by him.

MJ: Peter...
Peter: Go...
MJ: Peter look at me.
Peter: I said go!

Tears are going down Peter's face. Mary Jane wipes off his tears gently. She hugs him. He hugs her back.

MJ: Peter, everything's gonna be okay...I promise...

The camera slowly zooms out from his room. The screen fades to black, with some calm, peaceful music closing for the movie.

You see? If the movie ended like that, it ends on a happy note because indicates that he would find love in Mary Jane and everything will be okay.

But also, that ending could set up for more movies, if that's what they want to do.

What do you think of the little script for the scene??? Came form the top of my head! t:t:t:

 

[LegendAssemble]

MJ won't appear until after Gwen is dead. Like "Star Wars" she's Spidey's version of "A New Hope".

...It's Star Wars, not "A New Hope" no matter how many times that fat childminded old man says so!

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes, yes! You actually understand it! I could see it at the end of the third movie:

Peter is in his room, sobbing over the recent events (Gwen's death, Norman's death, even though he's the villain, he still feels guilty.)

Mary Jane comes into room. She looks like she was crying a bit, as well.

MJ: Peter are you--
Peter: Get out...
MJ: What?

Peter stands up from his bed.

Peter: I said get out! Get the hell out of here! Shouldn't you be at some party getting wasted and what not, like most of you usually do!? Leave 'cause I'm sure you hate sick beds...! Leave...

Peter sits back down and breaks down. Mary Jane opens the door ready to leave, but she stops and looks at Peter. She then shuts the door. She goes over and sits by him.

MJ: Peter...
Peter: Go...
MJ: Peter look at me.
Peter: I said go!

Tears are going down Peter's face. Mary Jane wipes off his tears gently. She hugs him. He hugs her back.

MJ: Peter, everything's gonna be okay...I promise...

The camera slowly zooms out from his room. The screen fades to black, with some calm, peaceful music closing for the movie.

You see? If the movie ended like that, it ends on a happy note because indicates that he would find love in Mary Jane and everything will be okay.

But also, that ending could set up for more movies, if that's what they want to do.

What do you think of the little script for the scene??? Came form the top of my head! t:t:t:

except and ending like that leaves everyone wanting more...

i thought about what if the trilogy ended with a knock on the door and a voice saying "face it tiger, you just hit the jack pot" but.. that still wants people wanting more as well.. I'd much rather see peter with a girl on his arm, and his life under control balancing both his identities (the best peter can), before we send off this series.

i want him to LOVE being spider-man this time

 

[LegendAssemble]

I want it to be in the second movie. Although it's a big point in Peter's life, it's not the biggest and we should have more story after she's gone. If anything her death is a metaphor for first love and the helplessness you feel when it dies. The story shouldn't end on that note.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I want it to be in the second movie. Although it's a big point in Peter's life, it's not the biggest and we should have more story after she's gone. If anything her death is a metaphor for first love and the helplessness you feel when it dies. The story shouldn't end on that note.

exactly. it's about the loss of innocents and the cusp of figuring your life out while becoming an adult.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Soon and brutally.

 

[©KAW]

In the third film...and brutally.

 

[Dagenspear]

Soon and brutally.

In the third film...and brutally.

You two wanna do it yourselves? I'm sure you'll have a lot fun.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

hell yea dude! I'd love to be in charge of Gwen's death. I dont mean to brag but, I think i could make it quite a gut-wrenching moment.

 

[Dagenspear]

But isn't the fact you care this much about not wanting her to die, that it's further proof that it'd be an incredibly dramatic and emotionally driven moment? I think that's just more reason to kill her off.

I love Emma as Gwen, but to me, her death makes the series that much more real, more powerful and character driven. The "with great power comes great responsibility" was only very briefly touched upon in this film unlike it's predecessor. I think Emma/Web has portrayed Gwen PERFECTLY. and this is the very reason so many are so attached to her, and base their reasonings on not killing her on their already garnished love and attachment to her. (same as people did in the comics).

and like the comics, this film series could really hit a high relevance, yes some fans like yourself will be upset and angry (just like fans did when gwen died in the books) but any film that successfully invokes an emotion from you is a successful film. Because it made you feel.

I really don't think Gwen living could go anywhere but "o they're so cute together" without treading on comic MJ's territory (the moment gwen went after lizard with a trophy is actually more in line with MJ's character already) (like when MJ beat the crap out of Chameleon with a baseball bat in the comics).

The spider-man mytho's are as tragic as they are light hearted. You don't properly capture spider-man without him feeling as i he has the weight of the world on his shoulders "you do too much, you're not super-man you know".

Gwen's death in the movies, at the hands of peter's irresponsibility, and by not heeding George's warning... is EXTREMELY powerful (i know you wont see it that way, but it is.) because it drives home the great power and great responsibility further than Ben's death did. It's also about the loss of adolescence. And usher's in peter to become an adult.

You make five assumptions here. All of which, are very wrong.

1. That me wanting Gwen to live has anything to do with me liking her. Which is wrong. I don't particularly. Nor do I feel any real attatchment to the Peter/Gwen relationship in any version. I kinda hate "first love" relationships, and never find myself fond of the idea of first love being true-love. I also don't really like pure, good girl types, I find it annoying and fake, and despite that Emma's fabulous in her performance, and the character is written in a good way, I find the only reason for me to actually like the character is because she's played by Emma Stone, and even then, I feel Marc Webb, and the off coverage and editing stifles her performance. So, it's not really a matter of liking, I didn't want BDH Gwen to die, I didn't want the SSM Gwen to die, nor did I want Ultimate Gwen to die, although she was pretty awesome and I loved her so much, so that's not really fair. Like I said though, not a matter of like, or want. You may not understand this being in the mindset of "I want, so it should", while, for me, it's always been, it shouldn't happen, so I don't want it to, but, it's a matter of principle.

2. That Gwen, and the relationship of Peter/Gwen can only offer what's already been done, or "o they're so cute together", or even the fact that they have to end up together at all. Which is wrong. If well written, it could very well detail the trials and tribulations of being in a relationship with someone while being a superhero, and trying to find a balance. Or, it would be nice, if, for once, in this supposedly relatable story, about this supposedly relatable superhero, you, ya know, ACTUALLY SEE SOMETHING RELATABLE. People don't live in the world of metaphors, and they are HARDLY relatable. Gwen breaking up with Peter is VERY relatable, her realizing that, with good reason, this isn't something she can really do, not wanting to experience of losing someone again like she lost her father, and it can even bring about the same effect, him feeling like Gwen's break-up means that, because he can't be with Gwen that maybe in some way he shouldn't be with anyone, thinking that no one could ever possibly understand, or should experience, the danger that his life brings, and that he'll just bring them pain. If done right this could be VERY realistic, and relatable, and make both parties involved not look like bad-guys in the situation. Not to mention it has the added bonus of not making Peter look like a tool for getting with MJ, who will see Peter's pain, and want to be a true friend and help him through it, which will bring them closer together, and make Peter, in a very powerful realization, that he can have a life, and be Spider-Man, and that just because Gwen couldn't live this life, doesn't mean that someone else can't, or doesn't want to. Which would only serve to make Peter and MJ feel more right together.

3. That Gwen being a strong and powerful woman automatically equals: Being written like Mary-Jane! Which, guess what, is wrong. A similar action does not make one or the other at all alike. That's like saying all strong woman are alike. Which is very false. Gwen is being written in a different way in these films, stronger, as a non-damsel in distress type of character.

4. That Gwen's death holds any sort of relevance to anyone outside of Spider-Man comic-fans. Which is, again, wrong. People will be sad, maybe angry, but at the end of the day, ya know what they'll all say? "Seen it before." Because they have. Because it's been done to death. Because by this point in superhero films the only thing new, sadly, is the happy ending. It's rare comic films. Now THAT would be truly shocking.

And finally 5. That death and pain is more powerful than a character living. Wrong. Character death is a cop-out, it's a cheap, half-assed way for a writer to instill "power" into something when the truth is, they don't have the skills to give a truly poweful end. TDKR was one the most powerful superhero films I've ever seen, and would you look at that? Nobody died to give it.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

You make five assumptions here. All of which, are very wrong.

1. That me wanting Gwen to live has anything to do with me liking her. Which is wrong. I don't particularly. Nor do I feel any real attatchment to the Peter/Gwen relationship in any version. I kinda hate "first love" relationships, and never find myself fond of the idea of first love being true-love. I also don't really like pure, good girl types, I find it annoying and fake, and despite that Emma's fabulous in her performance, and the character is written in a good way, I find the only reason for me to actually like the character is because she's played by Emma Stone, and even then, I feel Marc Webb, and the off coverage and editing stifles her performance. So, it's not really a matter of liking, I didn't want BDH Gwen to die, I didn't want the SSM Gwen to die, nor did I want Ultimate Gwen to die, although she was pretty awesome and I loved her so much, so that's not really fair. Like I said though, not a matter of like, or want. You may not understand this being in the mindset of "I want, so it should", while, for me, it's always been, it shouldn't happen, so I don't want it to, but, it's a matter of principle.

2. That Gwen, and the relationship of Peter/Gwen can only offer what's already been done, or "o they're so cute together", or even the fact that they have to end up together at all. Which is wrong. If well written, it could very well detail the trials and tribulations of being in a relationship with someone while being a superhero, and trying to find a balance. Or, it would be nice, if, for once, in this supposedly relatable story, about this supposedly relatable superhero, you, ya know, ACTUALLY SEE SOMETHING RELATABLE. People don't live in the world of metaphors, and they are HARDLY relatable. Gwen breaking up with Peter is VERY relatable, her realizing that, with good reason, this isn't something she can really do, not wanting to experience of losing someone again like she lost her father, and it can even bring about the same effect, him feeling like Gwen's break-up means that, because he can't be with Gwen that maybe in some way he shouldn't be with anyone, thinking that no one could ever possibly understand, or should experience, the danger that his life brings, and that he'll just bring them pain. If done right this could be VERY realistic, and relatable, and make both parties involved not look like bad-guys in the situation. Not to mention it has the added bonus of not making Peter look like a tool for getting with MJ, who will see Peter's pain, and want to be a true friend and help him through it, which will bring them closer together, and make Peter, in a very powerful realization, that he can have a life, and be Spider-Man, and that just because Gwen couldn't live this life, doesn't mean that someone else can't, or doesn't want to. Which would only serve to make Peter and MJ feel more right together.

3. That Gwen being a strong and powerful woman automatically equals: Being written like Mary-Jane! Which, guess what, is wrong. A similar action does not make one or the other at all alike. That's like saying all strong woman are alike. Which is very false. Gwen is being written in a different way in these films, stronger, as a non-damsel in distress type of character.

4. That Gwen's death holds any sort of relevance to anyone outside of Spider-Man comic-fans. Which is, again, wrong. People will be sad, maybe angry, but at the end of the day, ya know what they'll all say? "Seen it before." Because they have. Because it's been done to death. Because by this point in superhero films the only thing new, sadly, is the happy ending. It's rare comic films. Now THAT would be truly shocking.

And finally 5. That death and pain is more powerful than a character living. Wrong. Character death is a cop-out, it's a cheap, half-assed way for a writer to instill "power" into something when the truth is, they don't have the skills to give a truly poweful end. TDKR was one the most powerful superhero films I've ever seen, and would you look at that? Nobody died to give it.

so we agree to disagree right where it always ends up anyway... yay! and i hated TDKR.. so explains alot to both our sides...