Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - - Part 11

[Rocanrol]

I loved the take ala "Clash of the Titans" or the "New52" and "Injustice" take, that Gods vanish when people stop worshipping them. Elemental gods like Ares/Athena, Zeus, Hades would still hold great power and reputation, 'cause humankind would still strongly believe in Divine Creation and Allpower (Zeus), would still wage in war (Ares/Athena) and fear Death (Hades). Other Olimpian Gods like Helios, Apollo, Hermes and Hephaestus would still exist, in this modern world of science, progress and craftmanship, while the rest of the Gods (Hera, Artemis, Dionisyus) shall dissapear or go to a lesser plane.

Aphrodite maybe should be put with these "Elemental Gods", and Poseidon as a nature force per-se might be revered by the Atlanteans only.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That's interesting.

The God's exist only in elemental and spiritual force through humanity and the world around and not in full because of lack of human belief and worship.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Right. If I were to base something of that Amazon pilot for the CW. Here's my premise.

The story begins in 1974. During the Turkish Invasion of Cyprus.

In the small village of Aloda, a young girl and her sister are being told a story by their grandmother of tales of Greek mythology. Not long later...screams and gunshots are heard. The EOKA B raid the village...slaughtering many innocents. The young girls watch as their family and home are destroyed, barely escaping with their lives.

Years later, as the elder sister passes away, the younger joins the Hellian Army. She excells in combat and flying. But due to her experiences, develops Misandry, a dislike of men. She is soon forced to quit the army as she and a group of female soldiers attack the males for their treatment and attitude.

The females however break off from society, a male controlled society. The women soon enough become their own military group. Where conflict occurs they are there to fight for the Iinnocents. Drafting in young girls and women victims to their group.

The women are dubbed the Amazon's...their leader, Hippolyta.

They form a base at the Old Temple of Athena. An idol of the women, for Athena was the Goddess of many things they hold dear to them as women warriors.

Procuring money, weapons and vehicles from private hire and wars with criminals.

One unsuspecting night however, the women are ambushed at their temple base by a private army and are attacked. Many survive, but so many are captured, raped and murdered.

A raped and injured Hippolyta lies in the ruins and pleads with the great Gods. She prays that they will give the world the strength and courage to live in peace. She begs with all her pain, suffering, compassion, and heart that there will be a way someday.

In those moments. As the rain douses the flames of the temple and washes away the spilt blood of men and women...a young girl enters the temple ruins and tells Hippolyta that she has been created by the Gods to fulfill her prayer for her genuine love for all mankind.

The Gods have instructed the child to bring the women warriors to an island unknown to those who are not worthy of God's attention..The home of the past Amazon women, Themyscira. The Island shall serve as their haven of peace.

The girl promises the warriors that with their guidance, she will control conflict and bring peace.
She then asks Hippolyta if she will give her a name...and it is decided. Diana. Child of the Gods. Daughter of the Amazon Queen. Amazon Princess.

...................

For the dual identity. Things would focus on a young Diana working her way up through government work. Utilizing her impeccable and influential conversational skills...while also secretly masquerading as a costumed vigilante, using her amazing combat skills, combined with her superhuman abilities, to fight injustice in the quest for peace...

I don't see the title of Wonder Woman coming til the end...she's just called, Amazon.

 

[terry78]

Did Alex Ross ever reveal the name of the model he used for his Wonder Woman? She does exist but damn if I've ever seen anyone with that look.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

probably the same guy he used to draw supes with.

jokes aside, I've always thought she looked a bit like mariel hemingway.

she woulda made a good wondy.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

sigourney weaver too.

 

[Mad Love]

That's interesting.

The God's exist only in elemental and spiritual force through humanity and the world around and not in full because of lack of human belief and worship.

Tinkerbell. That's actually a common explanation. Such and such magical things stopped existing because people stopped believing. It's not particularly interesting.

Why bother with this elemental form vs physical form? The gods can take on any form they want. We don't need to know their true form nor should we because they should be outside the audience's understanding. I would rather have the gods always around. The only difference is people stopped noticing and began to call them by different names. Their existence shouldn't be dependent upon worship or belief. They are manifestations of nature. War still exists. Love still exists. Have people believed any less in those things? Not really, so it doesn't make sense anyway.

 

[dnno1]

Did Alex Ross ever reveal the name of the model he used for his Wonder Woman? She does exist but damn if I've ever seen anyone with that look.

Wonder Woman, by Alex Ross
(model, Lisa Beaderstadt?)

Wizzard Mazazine, Issue #123
(model, Rhonda Hampton?)

Some say that Alex used several models to pose for Wonder Woman. In the series, Kingdom Come, he used his friend, Lisa Beaderstadt, to portray the character while on his Wizzard magazine covers he used another friend, Rhonda Hampton. These are two that I have read about, but there are others.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Tinkerbell. That's actually a common explanation. Such and such magical things stopped existing because people stopped believing. It's not particularly interesting.

Why bother with this elemental form vs physical form? The gods can take on any form they want. We don't need to know their true form nor should we because they should be outside the audience's understanding. I would rather have the gods always around. The only difference is people stopped noticing and began to call them by different names. Their existence shouldn't be dependent upon worship or belief. They are manifestations of nature. War still exists. Love still exists. Have people believed any less in those things? Not really, so it doesn't make sense anyway.

But the explanation...2 world wars have happened. Wars in Greece have happened. And we know by myth Ares was involved. So why be not involved there if he existed?

The Gods should exist. But not at full strength, because only the belief and worship from humans in them is what fuels their strength. Then that in turn, allows those particular Gods to manifest again into existence and be interacted with on a humanly basis, if they choose it. Whereas before, they couldn't.

So that is sort of like Tinkerbell lol

I always had in mind this explanation. The Gods are created and manifested from the human mind. Certain thoughts and feelings project out of us onto the world around us...a world that holds "supernatural" properties. We're projecting our thoughts as people onto an elemental and unknown force...which in turns creates the Gods Iin the human realm and these beings of elemental form create shape their own realm of origin on the human world. Because they have manifested from our ideas, feelings and belief/worship. Amassing from the collective number of humans that created them in humanly form.

When humans stopped believing And worshipping, stopped the collective strength ..their physical forms ceased and their power over the human realm. They returned to their original states of elemental force and back to a shared parallel dimension on Earth.

 

[DrCosmic]

I also am about that Tinkerbell take on the Gods. I think it best leads to the situation during Wonder woman's debut where Ares and Aphrodite were the only relevant forces at the beginning of the story. You can later bring back the whole pantheon through reincarnation and a pagan resurgence or whatever, but as much as people still like the sky, people still talk about Ares/Mars and Aprhodite/Venus to this day, company names, product names, if it's Tinkerbell, those two should be by far the strongest of the old guard.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That would work.

If we look at the 12 Olympian Gods, we can easily see how most of them could still exist through humanity.

The things strongest in this world are undoubtedly love and conflict. Which fuels Aprhodite and Ares.
Out of love, comes marriage. ..which would fuel Hera. Out of conflict through war, comes wisdom, courage, inspiration, civilization, law and justice, just warfare, mathematics, strength, strategy, arts, crafts, and skill. That all fuels Athena.

They only exist through mankinds nature.

 

[Rocanrol]

Hephaestus> Progress, Industry, Craftmanship, Construction, Tinkering
Athena> Knowledge, Militar Strategy, Defense, Justice
Apollo> Science, Medicine, Knowledge
Mercury> Transportation, Communication, Haste
Ares> War, Viiolence, Conflict, Wrath, Destruction, Militar Prowess
Aphrodite> Beauty, Love, Pleasure, Passion
Hades> Dark, Death, Unknown
Poseidon> Tides, Oceans, Storms
Zeus> Sky, Lighting, Thunder
Hecate> Occult, Magic, Witchcraft, Moon
Hera>Marriage, Women

 

[Mad Love]

They only exist through mankinds nature.

You guys are missing the point. The gods were originally meant to explain nature. They are nature. You guys are thinking of gods as independent entities with super powers instead of the pagan way they were intended.

"They only exist through mankinds nature"?

So the sun and moon only exist in our heads... and they need worship?

There really is no need for overcomplicated explanations for the gods especially for a superhero movie. They are manifestations of nature. Animals feel things like anger and love too. Not just humans. Besides, the Western world isn't everything. There are still many pagan religions. People may call them by different names or stopped paying attention, but that doesn't change their power because nature is nature.

The gods in the movie should just serve to move the plot while the movie focuses on Wonder Woman and the Amazons. They take on different forms and influence events. We don't need to know their true forms or origins at all.

 

[Rodrigo90]

You guys are missing the point. The gods were originally meant to explain nature. They are nature. You guys are thinking of gods as independent entities with super powers instead of the pagan way they were intended.

"They only exist through mankinds nature"?

So the sun and moon only exist in our heads... and they need worship?

There really is no need for overcomplicated explanations for the gods especially for a superhero movie. They are manifestations of nature. Animals feel things like anger and love too. Not just humans. Besides, the Western world isn't everything. There are still many pagan religions. People may call them by different names or stopped paying attention, but that doesn't change their power because nature is nature.

The gods in the movie should just serve to move the plot while the movie focuses on Wonder Woman and the Amazons. They take on different forms and influence events. We don't need to know their true forms or origins at all.

It's more simple for a film to say the Gods first existed as part of nature. Humans, through their worship, strengthened them. The Gods manifested into physical forms through human image. Once humans stopped fueling them, they reverted back to once they came.

It's more believeable for this kind of film to say that than saying
"The God's exist as an idea through pagan belief system. ..yet they are real and can do whatever they want even though they haven't been doing it for thousands of years for some reason when this movie clearly demonstrates that the myths about them are true"

If we were to make it close to the comics, there has to be a solid explanation as to why things like that haven't happened in thousands of years and only now?

For example. Why no involvement of Ares in World War 1 or 2?

It would be boring and unbelievable to say Diana can be born from clay or a romp with Zeus and she's so clearly not all human, and say with all that...nothing else happens even though the Gods exist and gave Diana life in some form. Yet they can't or won't do anything else for their own selfish whims?

 

[Brian Braddock]

Did Alex Ross ever reveal the name of the model he used for his Wonder Woman? She does exist but damn if I've ever seen anyone with that look.

Sorry, I've absolutely no idea what dude Ross used as his model for Wonder Woman.

EDIT: Ah shoot - you got there before me I see:-

probably the same guy he used to draw supes with.

 

[Mad Love]

It's more simple for a film to say the Gods first existed as part of nature. Humans, through their worship, strengthened them. The Gods manifested into physical forms through human image. Once humans stopped fueling them, they reverted back to once they came.

That's not simple at all.

It's more believeable for this kind of film to say that than saying
"The God's exist as an idea through pagan belief system. ..yet they are real and can do whatever they want even though they haven't been doing it for thousands of years for some reason when this movie clearly demonstrates that the myths about them are true"

Here's simple: The gods are nature.

The gods don't exist as an idea through pagan belief system. They are nature regardless of what people believe. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You still don't get it. Who says Ares wasn't involved in WW1 or WW2? He can take on any form and operate in the background. Not everyone is aware of the gods. The gods choose who they directly contact.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Now I get what you mean.

So the film could say Ares was whispering in Hitler's ear or something, for his ideals?

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

probably the same guy he used to draw supes with.

jokes aside, I've always thought she looked a bit like mariel hemingway.

she woulda made a good wondy.

speaking of which has anyone seen 'starlet'? it featured her daughter model/actress dree hemingway,i haven't seen it yet, but apprently she got some buzz about her performance.

she's 5'9, 25 years old.

one of her co stars, besedka johnson, the older woman in the film, died yesterday.

 

[Rocanrol]

I like the new52 take that Ares has an "aura of hostility" that put people agressive and generate conflict in his surroundings. The greater the conflict, the greater the escalation of violence, more power he accumulates. He might be a direct piece in the game, or might just manipulate the people who instingate the conflict. Like a weapon-dealer, high advisor, man of faith, etc.

 

[Rodrigo90]

That works.

 

[Rocanrol]

I also LOVE the idea that Hades IS the realm, and he can have a physical manifestation. The original mythology of Hades (as Afterlife), narrates a clear division of hades in three realms, a parallelism of Heaven, Purgatory and Hell. It's awesome the nuclear simmilarities of different religious mythos.

 

[Visceral]

is there someway to get pilots that never get picked up or are they just lost in time?

 

[Mad Love]

Now I get what you mean.

So the film could say Ares was whispering in Hitler's ear or something, for his ideals?

Or his mere presence encouraged violence and hatred to allow Hitler to gain power. Being there is enough to stir up violence.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Now that's interesting.

 

[Midnight Black]

I'm liking what I'm reading here...some good ideas.