Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 3

[Matt]

there won't be.that's not what audences want or the intetnet.they want deadpool or MCU style films.with singer gone hack Kinberg will give it to them.

You're giving Singer too much credit. The man browbeats his audience with allegory. That is what they are rejecting. First Class had plenty of allegory and it is what rejuvenated the franchise.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It discounts two obvious ideas. One it wasn't that the old cast was back, but the old cast was back along with the new cast. It is the perfect example of "event" filmmaking.

Second, really sure Apocalypse is going to be a bigger WW success the any movie featuring the old cast on their own. Any spin off, any main series film, anything. So what does that say about the old cast?

I wouldn't be so quick to call that just yet.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Was he? I could've sworn I read an interview with him earlier in the week in which he said he wanted to do Dark Phoenix.

I've never seen a director fall from grace so quickly. He was the hot new guy in Hollywood just 10 short years ago. He made comic movies into main stream hits. Then he made the abysmal Superman 2. Then Valkyrie, which was supposed to be a prestige picture, only received Saturn Award nominations. Then his stock just plummeted. Then he did Jack and the Giant Killer and he sunk deeper. Then he crawled back to Fox and the X-Men franchise. And right when it seemed like he was about to rehabilitate his reputation, there was that scandal with the underage kids and now with this underperforming...I dunno. He should really go back to his roots and make a couple indies.

He was talking of a "break". He has another film lined up, though I wonder if this effects it.

That, and if this happened, they would have to bury me before the movie was over...

Spoiler

 

[GuestStar2004]

I think the lack of star power is just half of the problem. IMO, the biggest issue is that the stories with the new cast kinda negates the stories with a much better, and beloved cast. Audiences loved the OT of X-Men, and the moments when they couldn't fit the new movies into that, the box office paid the price

Not at all.

 

[marvelrobbins]

It's a free country, but seriously, you need to stop with this. I think we are all a little disappointed right now. Let's leave it at that.

for it's end of X-men films i am fan of.so this is mourning phase.people want X-men to be like deadpool or MCU so it won't be surprise if that's what they do.
I won't be celebrating end of X-men films as they have been as others are.

 

[danoyse]

First Class? Its my favorite X-Men movie! It is admittedly silly at times but I think it is the only X-Men movie to date to show the X-Men actually work as the X-Men. Well, I suppose X3 did as well...but the less that is said about that the better.

That was on FX this morning. Good lord, X3...

I thought this movie had good moments like that too - just not enough of them. It was like it didn’t know what it was supposed to be about. It should be the movie where everything gets handed off to these kids, but it was just all over the place.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

That actually happened just as DOFP was opening. He was the only one not at the fan screening/premiere in NY because the story had just broke. I remember the reporters were trying to ask the cast about it (like what were they supposed to say??).

Apocalypse hadn’t started filming yet.

Ah, I remember now.

Hmph. Well, it's possible some of that spilled into his management of XA. Directors are artists. And when they get messed up emotionally or distracted by some personal cataclysm it can affect their work.

 

[MadVillainy]

I've never seen a director fall from grace so quickly. He was the hot new guy in Hollywood just 10 short years ago. He made comic movies into main stream hits. Then he made the abysmal Superman 2. Then Valkyrie, which was supposed to be a prestige picture, only received Saturn Award nominations. Then his stock just plummeted. Then he did Jack and the Giant Killer and he sunk deeper. Then he crawled back to Fox and the X-Men franchise. And right when it seemed like he was about to rehabilitate his reputation, there was that scandal with the underage kids and now with this underperforming...I dunno. He should really go back to his roots and make a couple indies.

reading that just bummed be out

 

[danoyse]

for it's end of X-men films i am fan of.so this is mourning phase.people want X-men to be like deadpool or MCU so it won't be surprise if that's what they do.
I won't be celebrating end of X-men films as they have been as others are.

A) Stop assuming you know what everyone wants.

B) Stop griping over the same thing throughout every thread.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wouldn't be so quick to call that just yet.

It will be around 280m after Monday. It could completely tank, but it should have another 200m overall in it.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It will be around 280m after Monday. It could completely tank, but it should have another 200m overall in it.

Has it opened in...China yet?

 

[marvelrobbins]

You're giving Singer too much credit. The man browbeats his audience with allegory. That is what they are rejecting. First Class had plenty of allegory and it is what rejuvenated the franchise.

have you seen vaughn's non X-men films?and you are forgetting singer was very much involved as producer on first class.He helped rejuvenat franchise
with first class.without singer around someone like vaughn or Joss whedon the two most mentioned replacements would likely go in doing film without
allegary at all.

some of critics trashed apocalypse because X-men aren't like avengers as having fun with their powers.i saw that on apocalypse wiki page.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

First Class? Its my favorite X-Men movie! It is admittedly silly at times but I think it is the only X-Men movie to date to show the X-Men actually work as the X-Men. Well, I suppose X3 did as well...but the less that is said about that the better.

I found the thing we agree on more then Cam Newton. t:

You're giving Singer too much credit. The man browbeats his audience with allegory. That is what they are rejecting. First Class had plenty of allegory and it is what rejuvenated the franchise.

I have always found Singer heavy handed, but it worked early on imo. He just kept on keeping on, and it got tired. Especially after First Class showed it was unnecessary.

 

[Double B]

The whole discussion RE: solo films not making as much as the main team films merely shows that the X-Men are greater than the sum of their parts. Wolverine works better in the context of the team and solo X-Men films, regardless of who they are or who plays them, will come to that similar conclusion.

Hugh's Wolverine on its own - acceptable BO returns.
Hugh's Wolverine in a team of X-Men - better BO returns.

Now, as we've said over and over (and over), the X-Men films shouldn't be dependent on one star to boost the box office but that's been entirely Fox's fault and considering they failed to learn that lesson over the course of 16 years, I have little sympathy for them. Every movie has breakout character successes but the fact is the core X-Men team has several characters who could fulfil that role. Gambit, Rogue, Storm... I could go on, all have potential to be big successes - but they've made zero effort to elevate those characters beyond the half-hearted larger Storm role that Halle Berry had to fight for and was so far removed from the strengths of the character that it was irrelevant anyway.

We should not have got to the point where, this many years down the line, Fox can't enthuse an audience to come see a movie without a large Wolverine role.

And we, as fans, keep playing a game of "Well, the next film will give us Storm and Jean and Cyclops the way we really want them" but it's 16 years, we should've had those characters the way we wanted them from day one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Has it opened in...China yet?

The third actually. But it should get destroyed by Warcraft.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

The third actually. But it should get destroyed by Warcraft.

You missed my joke.

 

[danoyse]

The third actually. But it should get destroyed by Warcraft.

I can’t believe people are actually going to see that movie...

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

The whole discussion RE: solo films not making as much as the main team films merely shows that the X-Men are greater than the sum of their parts. Wolverine works better in the context of the team and solo X-Men films, regardless of who they are or who plays them, will come to that similar conclusion.

Hugh's Wolverine on its own - acceptable BO returns.
Hugh's Wolverine in a team of X-Men - better BO returns.

Now, as we've said over and over (and over), the X-Men films shouldn't be dependent on one star to boost the box office but that's been entirely Fox's fault and considering they failed to learn that lesson over the course of 16 years, I have little sympathy for them. Every movie has breakout character successes but the fact is the core X-Men team has several characters who could fulfil that role. Gambit, Rogue, Storm... I could go on, all have potential to be big successes - but they've made zero effort to elevate those characters beyond the half-hearted larger Storm role that Halle Berry had to fight for and was so far removed from the strengths of the character that it was irrelevant anyway.

We should not have got to the point where, this many years down the line, Fox can't enthuse an audience to come see a movie without a large Wolverine role.

And we, as fans, keep playing a game of "Well, the next film will give us Storm and Jean and Cyclops the way we really want them" but it's 16 years, we should've had those characters the way we wanted them from day one.

*cosigns*

 

[marieylee]

I can’t believe people are actually going to see that movie...

Only the Chinese, it seems (well and a few other countries).

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The whole discussion RE: solo films not making as much as the main team films merely shows that the X-Men are greater than the sum of their parts. Wolverine works better in the context of the team and solo X-Men films, regardless of who they are or who plays them, will come to that similar conclusion.

Hugh's Wolverine on its own - acceptable BO returns.
Hugh's Wolverine in a team of X-Men - better BO returns.

Now, as we've said over and over (and over), the X-Men films shouldn't be dependent on one star to boost the box office but that's been entirely Fox's fault and considering they failed to learn that lesson over the course of 16 years, I have little sympathy for them. Every movie has breakout character successes but the fact is the core X-Men team has several characters who could fulfil that role. Gambit, Rogue, Storm... I could go on, all have potential to be big successes - but they've made zero effort to elevate those characters beyond the half-hearted larger Storm role that Halle Berry had to fight for and was so far removed from the strengths of the character that it was irrelevant anyway.

We should not have got to the point where, this many years down the line, Fox can't enthuse an audience to come see a movie without a large Wolverine role.

And we, as fans, keep playing a game of "Well, the next film will give us Storm and Jean and Cyclops the way we really want them" but it's 16 years, we should've had those characters the way we wanted them from day one.

Yeah, if we forget this guy, Negasonic and Colossus made more money then any X-Men flick has:

With an R-rating no less.

 

[danoyse]

The whole discussion RE: solo films not making as much as the main team films merely shows that the X-Men are greater than the sum of their parts. Wolverine works better in the context of the team and solo X-Men films, regardless of who they are or who plays them, will come to that similar conclusion.

Hugh's Wolverine on its own - acceptable BO returns.
Hugh's Wolverine in a team of X-Men - better BO returns.

Now, as we've said over and over (and over), the X-Men films shouldn't be dependent on one star to boost the box office but that's been entirely Fox's fault and considering they failed to learn that lesson over the course of 16 years, I have little sympathy for them. Every movie has breakout character successes but the fact is the core X-Men team has several characters who could fulfil that role. Gambit, Rogue, Storm... I could go on, all have potential to be big successes - but they've made zero effort to elevate those characters beyond the half-hearted larger Storm role that Halle Berry had to fight for and was so far removed from the strengths of the character that it was irrelevant anyway.

We should not have got to the point where, this many years down the line, Fox can't enthuse an audience to come see a movie without a large Wolverine role.

And we, as fans, keep playing a game of "Well, the next film will give us Storm and Jean and Cyclops the way we really want them" but it's 16 years, we should've had those characters the way we wanted them from day one.

Agreed. I think Hugh is at a point where he is SO ready to leave, but they’ve made this series so dependent on him that they won’t let him go. They need to start showing more confidence in everyone else they’ve got. He can’t do this forever.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You missed my joke.

Sorry, I thought the laughs were an indication, but I couldn't figure out what it was. So I just decided to go with honesty.

I can’t believe people are actually going to see that movie...

It is tracking terribly here, and the reviews are bad. But apparently WOW is still a big draw overseas. It did well in its limited markets this weekend and is tracking to be huge in China. It could really end up with like a 100m domestically, over 500m internationally. It is insane.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Agreed. I think Hugh is at a point where he is SO ready to leave, but they’ve made this series so dependent on him that they won’t let him go. They need to start showing more confidence in everyone else they’ve got. He can’t do this forever.

No matter how much danoyse wants him to.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Sorry, I thought the laughs were an indication, but I couldn't figure out what it was. So I just decided to go with honesty.

I was testing you again. I know how the film is doing in China.

 

[Matt]

That was on FX this morning. Good lord, X3...

I thought this movie had good moments like that too - just not enough of them. It was like it didn’t know what it was supposed to be about. It should be the movie where everything gets handed off to these kids, but it was just all over the place.

Yeah, I definitely agree that this movie did not know what it wanted to be. Was it an end of the world disaster movie? Was it the conclusion of Charles/Erik/Raven's story throughout the First Class trilogy? Was it a launching platform for the next part of the franchise in which the torch is passed? It seems like it tried to be all three and as a result came across as incredibly convoluted and suffering from an identity crisis.

Ah, I remember now.

Hmph. Well, it's possible some of that spilled into his management of XA. Directors are artists. And when they get messed up emotionally or distracted by some personal cataclysm it can affect their work.

HOnestly, I am more concerned about the children that Bryan Singer has abused than I am about his artistic work being affected. There is an odd mentality in Hollywood, which claims to be such a progressive place, in which children can be victimized with no repercussion. Roman Polanski did it. Woody Allen did it. And Bryan Singer did it. I'm sure there are more. If these men drugged and raped an adult female, they would be blacklisted. But for some reason, doing it to children seems to be okay in Hollywood. And none of that speaks to the working conditions/mental trauma that a child actor is put through. I don't mean to jump on a soap box, but it is a very concerning culture.

I found the thing we agree on more then Cam Newton. t:

I have always found Singer heavy handed, but it worked early on imo. He just kept on keeping on, and it got tired. Especially after First Class showed it was unnecessary.

Me too. X-Men handled it well. But then in X-2: "Can you try not being a mutant?" Hell, Stryker's entire plot is a thinly veiled metaphor for pray away the gay movements. I don't mind the allegory. X-Men is nothing, if not a tale about discrimination. But Singer has been way too heavy handed with it.