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Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 42

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and for many, a good film is just a good film, but when its an adaptation of characters you love, its not wrong for people to want those characters done right.

either way... no one is wrong for wanting that.

and *gasp* it's actually possible to have both

Let me be clear Spb_111--and I appreciate your posts as they are refreshing from all the circle-jerking that goes on these boards--I'm not trying to suppress anyone's opinion, but there is a strange conflict within the X-franchise that strikes me as strange. You would think based on all the constant complaints about the X-franchise that the MCU approach would be a no-brainer. Yet it seems as if there is a reluctance to the MCU approach. Is it perfect, of course not, but it comes pretty damn close!

I always thought the goal was to bring these characters to life as in the comics--like the MCU, did we fans miss something? Do people want the X-men from the comics or not?!
 
That's the point of the First Class Trilogy. With all the prequel stuff and ties to the original cinematic outing out of the way (inconsistencies notwithstanding) and the X-Men finally established they're moving forward.
Singer's taking a break, so it falls on the next creative team to do what they wish.
Deadpool established what it's like for the present X-Men.
 
Let me be clear Spb_111--and I appreciate your posts as they are refreshing from all the circle-jerking that goes on these boards--I'm not trying to suppress anyone's opinion, but there is a strange conflict within the X-franchise that strikes me as strange. You would think based on all the constant complaints about the X-franchise that the MCU approach would be a no-brainer. Yet it seems as if there is a reluctance to the MCU approach. Is it perfect, of course not, but it comes pretty damn close!

I always thought the goal was to bring these characters to life as in the comics--like the MCU, did we fans miss something? Do people want the X-men from the comics or not?!

Because when people mention the MCU approach, 90% of the time it means or is interpreted as "give the rights back to Marvel".

I'm not a fan of the MCU method, because things have become boring, for me. I don't want that to happen with X-men. Which is why, even though I really loved Apocalypse, I am glad to see Singer go and new blood to come in. New blood is need every now and again to refresh the franchise.
 
Let me be clear Spb_111--and I appreciate your posts as they are refreshing from all the circle-jerking that goes on these boards--I'm not trying to suppress anyone's opinion, but there is a strange conflict within the X-franchise that strikes me as strange. You would think based on all the constant complaints about the X-franchise that the MCU approach would be a no-brainer. Yet it seems as if there is a reluctance to the MCU approach. Is it perfect, of course not, but it comes pretty damn close!

I always thought the goal was to bring these characters to life as in the comics--like the MCU, did we fans miss something? Do people want the X-men from the comics or not?!

I think some people like when charachers have differents interpretations.
For exemple, i love Batman in comics but freaking LOVE Mickeal Keaton in Batman (1989). Affleck looks more like the comics but i prefer Keaton because i feel something.
In fact, i loved Ben in BVS too, i don't have to choose a side because i enjoy the diversity.

I go to cinema in order to have a feeling, a experience. I feel something during Magneto speech in DOFP or when Logan saved Rogue in X1. Movie are like food, it 's a personal experience. Some big X-Men fan love X-Men franchise and they think it's faithful enough for them. It's strange for you but fans are just differents.

Some fans want to see movie like comics, some like to see differents visions, some want to see both.
 
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anyone willing to start a general X-thread?
 
For sake of simplicity I will divide the X-Fandom into the following 3 classes.

Red Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes Fox's version of X-Men and want them to always be with Fox no matter what and that's how you feel, you are a Fox X-Men loyalist. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Blue Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes the idea of a MCU version of X-Men and want them to be in the MCU no matter what and that's how you feel, than you’re primarily a MCU loyalist with eyes on the X-Men. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Gold Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who just likes the X-Men characters and you don't care if it’s Marvel Studios or Fox who make the movies and as long as you enjoy them and as long as the stories are good, then you are primarily an X-Men loyalist foremost with no studio attachments. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

These are all viable and equally valid positions as fans, and as fans it should be totally fine to talk, debate, agree or disagree with each other. It should be all good.

We are all fans on a board about comic-book characters…, it’s OK if we have different ideas of what is best for future movies on these characters.
 
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I'm blue class but I enjoy the X-Men movies. I just see this franchise dying and losing steam, and I think they would be better off in the MCU
 
I'm blue class but I enjoy the X-Men movies. I just see this franchise dying and losing steam, and I think they would be better off in the MCU

And honestly, there is nothing wrong with that. :up:
 
In YoungBloods defense you were seemingly very hostile as well in your first response.
 
Because when people mention the MCU approach, 90% of the time it means or is interpreted as "give the rights back to Marvel".

I'm not a fan of the MCU method, because things have become boring, for me. I don't want that to happen with X-men. Which is why, even though I really loved Apocalypse, I am glad to see Singer go and new blood to come in. New blood is need every now and again to refresh the franchise.
Which comics though the 80s? 90s? The original 60s team? The ultimate team?

They are maybe the most convoluted of the comic teams as they have never had a definitive or classic look or been your standard superhero team. They've always been more of a task force that sometimes is mistaken for superheroes so how in the sam hell are they comparible to the Avengers let alone be able to follow thier blueprint?

There's a reason most here don't want that. The tone is completely different.
 
The most convoluted non-team from Marvel is hands down the Defenders.

I have to respectfully disagree that X-men was "never" considered a standard team, in fact that's their thing, they train hardcore in the danger room all the time to be nothing but a team.

The thing about the X-Men is at the heart of their team, they are a school. Just like at the heart of the team of the Fantastic Four, they are a family of explorers. Those are a few of the key things that seperate those two teams from a team like the Avengers.

As far as how they look, the new international X-Men from the 1970's through the 1990's with some characters having a few changes/tweaks to their costumes here and there have had overall a pretty darn consistant look (usually they her simply updated and an improved look) until the comics imitated the movies and gave them the black costumes and even after that phase, the costumes they took up once they went back to wearing costumes were not a huge departure from previous looks.

Proof of this is simple, I know people who read the comics hardcore in the 1980's and 90's and dropped off, but when they see a poster of the team together with their new looks, they have no problems what so ever picking out Cyclops, Rogue, Colossus, Storm, Nightcrawler, Gambit, Wolverine, etc.

You want to see a team get a truly radical and unrecognizable look? Check out the Avengers around "the crossing". THAT was a radical departure in how many of those characters usually looked...and in a few cases it was more than a simple costume change.

There is enough there to clearly get a handle for a proper "look" that would be recognizable and comic-inspired even if it was not exact. It's understandable not everything translated exactly. But you can still get the spirt of the look of the characters. One thing about the ending of X-M:A is I felt they did a solid job of doing just that, too bad it was only at the end.

As far as tone, that's assuming Marvel can't find a proper one for the X-Men, and that I also have to respectfully disagree with.
 
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I dissagree with your dissagreement...

And you seemed to not understand what I was trying to convey the reason I say not a standard team is that they don't have a archetypal "hero" reason for saving the world mutants are thrust into the spotlight due to things out of their control. The X-Men are reactionary to the hatred the world has thrown their way not because all of them simply deciding to use their powers for the benefit of mankind just to out of pure benevolence. The life chose them they didnt choose it.

It was to stop their friends from being shot and murdered point blank range just for looking different they were built from intollerance not from wanting merely to fight crime. Even before most of the mutants get their powers they are usually outcasts still in some way.

Whether you want to except it or not is up to you but it's obvious that the tone is very diffrent than say JLA, FF or Avengers.

They are a task force who try to fight for their right to survive not just a standard superhero team.

Lookwise the only ones on the team that has stayed consistent enough to really say that black leather wasn't a proper portrayal is Cyc and Wolverine. Outside of that all the main team had black leather on before the movies introduced them. That's not to say I don't want more comic accurate costumes just that the ones we got weren't completely inaccurate.

EDIT: The original team also didn't have black but you get my point.
 
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For sake of simplicity I will divide the X-Fandom into the following 3 classes.

Red Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes Fox's version of X-Men and want them to always be with Fox no matter what and that's how you feel, you are a Fox X-Men loyalist. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Blue Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes the idea of a MCU version of X-Men and want them to be in the MCU no matter what and that's how you feel, than you’re primarily a MCU loyalist with eyes on the X-Men. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Gold Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who just likes the X-Men characters and you don't care if it’s Marvel Studios or Fox who make the movies and as long as you enjoy them and as long as the stories are good, then you are primarily an X-Men loyalist foremost with no studio attachments. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

These are all viable and equally valid positions as fans, and as fans it should be totally fine to talk, debate, agree or disagree with each other. It should be all good.

We are all fans on a board about comic-book characters…, it’s OK if we have different ideas of what is best for future movies on these characters.

Blue team for me.
It's really funny how things changed for me.
I really love the original trilogy of the X-Men movies. And didn't even cared that much for the Avengers that much back then. I only read the first "New Avengers" comic books.
I didn't even knew about the "rights" issues after the The Avengers 2012 was released, and though they were all together lol
But yeah, by now, it's amazing how things have changed. The "X-Men" as a whole brand is just dying.
And even regarding the movies, Kinberg himself said it recently that DofP was their "Avengers" movie. Basically, he admitted that they can't/won't make a X-Men movie that will gross 800+ million. And looking at what XMA did, I would go and say that I don't see them making a 600 million X-Men movies anymore.
 
For sake of simplicity I will divide the X-Fandom into the following 3 classes.

Red Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes Fox's version of X-Men and want them to always be with Fox no matter what and that's how you feel, you are a Fox X-Men loyalist. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Blue Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes the idea of a MCU version of X-Men and want them to be in the MCU no matter what and that's how you feel, than you’re primarily a MCU loyalist with eyes on the X-Men. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Gold Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who just likes the X-Men characters and you don't care if it’s Marvel Studios or Fox who make the movies and as long as you enjoy them and as long as the stories are good, then you are primarily an X-Men loyalist foremost with no studio attachments. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

These are all viable and equally valid positions as fans, and as fans it should be totally fine to talk, debate, agree or disagree with each other. It should be all good.

We are all fans on a board about comic-book characters…, it’s OK if we have different ideas of what is best for future movies on these characters.

I love this breakdown. Of course it doesn't cover the entire fandom, but it comes close.

I'm Gold Class, and proud of it. XD Whichever studios end up making the films, there will be pros and cons. What matters is whether the final product is enjoyable for me, nothing else matters.

There is no one true version of the X-Men for me, which is why I'm fine with any and all interpretations.
 
Back in 2009 I did not see an Xmen film or any of its spin-offs making 500mil. I was wrong.
 
I definitely think he loves the characters and gets the over-all theme.. but i don't think he necessarily "gets" all the characters.

IMo, he loves certain characters. Logan, Xavier, Magneto, Mystique, Jean, Magneto, Mystique, Quicksilver, Nightcrawler and Magneto again and Mystique again.

But eh, at this point, I just hate what he did to X-Men: Apocalypse. I hate seeing Mystique training the "X-Men". I felt like Angel as a horseman could have been a great reintroduction to the character but wasted once again in favor of Magneto's story-arc. While Psylocke could have been really memorable to the GA. And Jubilee was brought back for a background role AGAIN.
 
For sake of simplicity I will divide the X-Fandom into the following 3 classes.

Red Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes Fox's version of X-Men and want them to always be with Fox no matter what and that's how you feel, you are a Fox X-Men loyalist. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Blue Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes the idea of a MCU version of X-Men and want them to be in the MCU no matter what and that's how you feel, than you’re primarily a MCU loyalist with eyes on the X-Men. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Gold Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who just likes the X-Men characters and you don't care if it’s Marvel Studios or Fox who make the movies and as long as you enjoy them and as long as the stories are good, then you are primarily an X-Men loyalist foremost with no studio attachments. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

These are all viable and equally valid positions as fans, and as fans it should be totally fine to talk, debate, agree or disagree with each other. It should be all good.

We are all fans on a board about comic-book characters…, it’s OK if we have different ideas of what is best for future movies on these characters.

Gold Class baby!:woot:
 
For sake of simplicity I will divide the X-Fandom into the following 3 classes.

Red Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes Fox's version of X-Men and want them to always be with Fox no matter what and that's how you feel, you are a Fox X-Men loyalist. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Blue Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes the idea of a MCU version of X-Men and want them to be in the MCU no matter what and that's how you feel, than you’re primarily a MCU loyalist with eyes on the X-Men. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Gold Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who just likes the X-Men characters and you don't care if it’s Marvel Studios or Fox who make the movies and as long as you enjoy them and as long as the stories are good, then you are primarily an X-Men loyalist foremost with no studio attachments. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

These are all viable and equally valid positions as fans, and as fans it should be totally fine to talk, debate, agree or disagree with each other. It should be all good.

We are all fans on a board about comic-book characters…, it’s OK if we have different ideas of what is best for future movies on these characters.

I'm Gold Class. I do think Disney/Marvel would handle some characters/aspects better (the CGI, wirework and flying scenes would be better without a doubt), but not all. What Fox needs to do now is change gear and step it up.

I agree with psylockolossus that it was bizarre for Mystique to be training the young X-Men, that 'forget everything you know' should have been spoken by Xavier or Beast.
 
It makes sense for Mystique in this interpretation of the X-Men. It's fine really, that's how they've built her up in the FC trilogy. If it continues to happen in the next trilogy, then yeah that wouldn't be good. But if Singer and co. treats Scott, Jean, Storm etc. the same as he gave focus to the FC trio, then it'll be fine. (At the very least, we know Jean will be treated well. This franchise has always loved Jean, or rather the Phoenix)

They don't even need Disney to make aspects like CGI/wirework/flying better. Deadpool proves it's more of a Singer thing to use wirework instead of digital doubles to convey the movement of certain characters. Vaughn did flying pretty well too. Pretty sure those stylistic choices will change depending on the director.

Anyways, all Fox can really do is make better movies on their own right now, hopefully learning from the success of others and their own (in addition to marketing things better as well as trying to create a more rewarding experience that'll get people to follow the films more)
 
I dissagree with your dissagreement...

And you seemed to not understand what I was trying to convey the reason I say not a standard team is that they don't have a archetypal "hero" reason for saving the world mutants are thrust into the spotlight due to things out of their control. The X-Men are reactionary to the hatred the world has thrown their way not because all of them simply deciding to use their powers for the benefit of mankind just to out of pure benevolence. The life chose them they didnt choose it.

It was to stop their friends from being shot and murdered point blank range just for looking different they were built from intollerance not from wanting merely to fight crime. Even before most of the mutants get their powers they are usually outcasts still in some way.

Whether you want to except it or not is up to you but it's obvious that the tone is very diffrent than say JLA, FF or Avengers.

They are a task force who try to fight for their right to survive not just a standard superhero team.

Lookwise the only ones on the team that has stayed consistent enough to really say that black leather wasn't a proper portrayal is Cyc and Wolverine. Outside of that all the main team had black leather on before the movies introduced them. That's not to say I don't want more comic accurate costumes just that the ones we got weren't completely inaccurate.


EDIT: The original team also didn't have black but you get my point.

It's OK to disagree, like I said earlier.

Everyone knows that the X-Men haves slightly different motivation than other teams, but at the same time, especially in the beginning with Charles Xavier mentioning it several times, the X-Men are taught that they should use their powers for the good of all humanity while at the same time educating and teaching those with mutant powers how to use their powers and to be good examples of mutants to the world around them.

It's a variation of responsibility of power.

You say they are reactionary, and nowadays they admittedly pretty much are, but in the early books, I would argue that Xavier was really trying to be proactive and demonstrate that mutants should be embraced with the rest of society.

Again,it's OK to disagree, but I've been reading comics since the early 70s clear up to now, and X-Men was a huge chunk of that especially in the 70s 80s and early 90s. And I will disagree with anyone who tries to say that at the heart of their team the X-Men are not trying to make the world a better place for everybody, because they are.

Of course they are not like the avengers and no one has claimed otherwise, but like I alluded to in my earlier statement, many teams have different core properties like the fantastic four is a family of explorers, and the avengers are simply a straight up fighting force, and the X-Men is a school, but one motivation that they all do share is they are a team that has as one of their main motivations the betterment of the world at large.

And again as far as tone, no one is saying X-Men would have the same exact tone as Avengers, what I'm talking about is that I think Marvel Studios would be able to make a sufficient tone that would fit the X-Men and I haven't seen anything to say that they would not. I'm sure they would as they are connected marvel which is the group that makes these books in the first place.

As far as the black leather costumes, I disagree with that as well, except for Storm the other X-Men like Wolverine, Colossus, Rogue, whoever they didn't wear the black leather until he came out until Morrison started that on his run of X-Men and that was after the movies. Cyclops might be the only one I'll give you only because his costume a lot of times simply basic.
 
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Red Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes Fox's version of X-Men and want them to always be with Fox no matter what and that's how you feel, you are a Fox X-Men loyalist. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Blue Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who likes the idea of a MCU version of X-Men and want them to be in the MCU no matter what and that's how you feel, than you’re primarily a MCU loyalist with eyes on the X-Men. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.

Gold Class: At your very core of your fandom, if you are a person who just likes the X-Men characters and you don't care if it’s Marvel Studios or Fox who make the movies and as long as you enjoy them and as long as the stories are good, then you are primarily an X-Men loyalist foremost with no studio attachments. That’s a totally valid way to feel and a totally valid side to be on.
Team Red here... weirdly enough. I'd say Gold, but since I want all the mutant related properties to stay far away from the MCU, Red it is. :woot:
 
Red, Blue and Gold. It's all good.

You can also start off as one and move to another. At one point or another in my fandom, I was in each camp myself.
 
I did the thing.
Really nothing to add this Apoc thread that hasn't already been said until more concept art and the DVD + extras/deleted scenes come out.
 
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It makes sense for Mystique in this interpretation of the X-Men. It's fine really, that's how they've built her up in the FC trilogy. If it continues to happen in the next trilogy, then yeah that wouldn't be good. But if Singer and co. treats Scott, Jean, Storm etc. the same as he gave focus to the FC trio, then it'll be fine. (At the very least, we know Jean will be treated well. This franchise has always loved Jean, or rather the Phoenix)

I think Mystique should go away and form Freedom Force or something... I can't see her sticking around at the mansion, even in this hero-teacher guise they have given her.

They don't even need Disney to make aspects like CGI/wirework/flying better. Deadpool proves it's more of a Singer thing to use wirework instead of digital doubles to convey the movement of certain characters. Vaughn did flying pretty well too. Pretty sure those stylistic choices will change depending on the director.

Good points. Yes, we got Banshee flying in FC and that was done well. Yet Singer just has Storm etc dangling on wires, even though he had superhero flight in Superman Returns.

Anyways, all Fox can really do is make better movies on their own right now, hopefully learning from the success of others and their own (in addition to marketing things better as well as trying to create a more rewarding experience that'll get people to follow the films more)

Friends of mine who aren't geeks love both casts, but were mostly disappointed with XM:A, finding the villain poorly realised and the story and pacing not very good. They mostly felt that using a whole movie to wrap up Xavier and Magneto's past issues was incredibly self-indulgent for a summer blockbuster - which is a fair point considering it hasn't been received that well and thus doesn't leave viewers with a 'ooh, can't wait for what comes next' because it was too busy concluding everything.
 
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