Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 43

[EnDz0n3]

Speaking of taking previous 3 movies into account, I bring you Erik and Charles not meeting at 17, Charles and Mystique step brothers, Hank being the author of Cerebro instead of Charles and Magneto, Cyclops Jean and Storm not being first students (not even in Apocalypse, Jubilee is senior to them), Hank invented a mutant cure before 2006, the list goes on.

They'll probably end up doing whatever they want. I don't know why you're intent on dismissing people's expectations for a character shakeup.

Exactly.

 

[def28]

The real elephant in the room is that Xavier blew up two submarines and barely anyone is talking about that(both in and out of story).

No, it's just that you refuse to see the difference on why audiences don't see it that way.

When a character is screaming yelling for help, looking completely possessed and asking his colleagues to stop it/destroy everything in minutes, it plays far differently then revenge obsessed Magneto.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The Quicksilver/Magneto thing may never be addressed. And it's difficult to see Quicksilver remaining at the mansion as an X-Men member once it has been addressed. I think the best place to develop it would be a Genosha/Magneto Rex/House of M-inspired spin-off.

Had the last film been DOFP where they just hinted about it i'd agree but because apocalypse pretty much reminded you every 10 minutes about it id say they are pretty much heading somewhere with it.

I dunno how far they will go with it, whether he will leave or he decide to stay at the school, whether scarlett witch will ever make her debut ect ect but it does seem likely there will be something more going on.

Its hard to say what they will do with quicksilver because they are doing their own thing so its difficult to know how close he will become to the other X-Men as he doesn't seem like a total ******* this series so he probably will build up some relationship with them either way so he probably won't be alienated just because he isn't an X-Man in the comics

Jean, Scott and Storm would make good candidates for arcs in the next trilogy, if there ever is one.

Well they did have arcs in apocalypse, some characters had more then others but they tried to give most of the characters arcs, even storm probably had an arc to a certain degree

 

[GuestStar2004]

I don't think that's a good enough excuse. What are you going to have him do other than have deadbeat dad drama with Quicksilver? Remember he still isn't an X-Men member and they have to come up with an excuse for him to be involved in the story. So far, they've repeated the same plot beats -- either he helps the X-Men and turns on them, or he is against them.

Magneto doesn't have to be an X-Man to become involved, Quicksilver could go find him for whatever reason which gets magneto involved to some degree, its as simple as that really as Magneto doesn't have to play the villain anymore, he can play the father figure.

After apocalypse i think they acknowledged all the magneto backstabbing was done with.

Plus there's the big elephant in the room, the fact that he nearly destroyed the world and probably killed a lot of people and got away with it at the end of Apocalypse.

Thats probably not as big an elephant in the room as you may think, i doubt anyone will be yelling at magneto about how he almost destroyed the world while magneto breaks down crying.

 

[Stan Lee]

No, it's just that you refuse to see the difference on why audiences don't see it that way.

When a character is screaming yelling for help, looking completely possessed and asking his colleagues to stop it/destroy everything in minutes, it plays far differently then revenge obsessed Magneto.

Except Magneto didn't join Apocalypse because he wanted revenge. It's because he promised him a better world where his people wouldn't keep getting slaughtered. This was explicitly stated by Erik himself. But Apocalypse's plan completely contradicted that as it involves slaughtering his people.

-Send the world to the Bronze Age(killing many Mutants).

-Mind control everyone on the planet that is left alive(including Mutants). Basically enslaving them.

-Apocalypse labels even Mutants as among "the weak".

Just like how Apocalypse said he wanted to set Psylocke free and that Storm shouldn't enslave herself. Which Apocalypse's plan completely goes against and makes you wonder why the hell they were they following him in the first place since it was so counterproductive. It's a hint that something is not right with them.

So the real difference between Xavier and Magneto is that the former was less subtle about his mind being screwed with.

 

[Frankeh]

Thats probably not as big an elephant in the room as you may think, i doubt anyone will be yelling at magneto about how he almost destroyed the world while magneto breaks down crying.

How about putting him in prison with mutant power inhibitors or at least having him in hiding or on the run? Hell humans have gotten death penalty for much less. But the movie decided to have him amicably parting ways with Charles. Huh.

The excuses for XMA's sloppy writing have gone overboard. The next one will have to come up with a very good excuse as to why Magneto is out and about, or why the X-Men should even trust him in the first place. Or they probably won't even address it and hope we forget about it like Mystique fishing Wolverine out of water in DOFP.

 

[Stan Lee]

How about putting him in prison with mutant power inhibitors or at least having him in hiding or on the run? Hell humans have gotten death penalty for much less. But the movie decided to have him amicably parting ways with Charles. Huh.

The defenses for XMA's sloppy writing have gone overboard. The next one will have to come up with a very good excuse as to why Magneto is out and about, or why the X-Men should even trust him in the first place. Or they probably won't even address it and hope we forget about it like Mystique fishing Wolverine out of water like in DOFP.

You're assuming the public knows what he did.

 

[Frankeh]

Let's remember Magneto was also imprisoned once for killing JFK, controlled Sentinels and lifted a stadium and placed it around the White House, gave a speech on national television. He's a known criminal. And yet somehow he was unrecognizable to townsfolk in Poland. And to his wife. And now he nearly destroyed the world. I don't know what else to say.

 

[Stan Lee]

Magneto didn't kill JFK, he tried to save him. His wife knew who he was and went under another identity. The public thinks that it was Apocalypse that caused all that destruction and Magneto stopped him. This is all stated in the film.

 

[def28]

Magneto didn't kill JFK, he tried to save him. His wife knew who he was and went under another identity. The public thinks that it was Apocalypse that caused all that destruction and Magneto stopped him. This is all stated in the film.

Public schools are taught that Magneto is the worlds most wanted fugitive. Public schools.

So the real difference between Xavier and Magneto is that the former was less subtle about his mind being screwed with.

You don't see how that direction of actually showing someone in that state leads audiences to think a certain way? There is a full on struggle and visually they are showing Xavier is not in control.

The hypnotizing of the horsemen is done so poorly and weak, that it basically looks like, hey heres a new power now follow me and commit one of the worst crimes and murder to the world ever. It makes all these characters look like either bad villains in nature, extremely weak or just stupid. It's done horribly. With Xavier there is an effort. It's not some small difference.

What they show is not enough for any sort of real possessive against their will struggle, and with Magneto we have already seen him make the mistake of trying to ruin the world over and over for the past 16 years on film. He's really really dangerous, and the world is more then aware of that.

The excuses for XMA's sloppy writing have gone overboard. The next one will have to come up with a very good excuse as to why Magneto is out and about, or why the X-Men should even trust him in the first place. Or they probably won't even address it and hope we forget about it like Mystique fishing Wolverine out of water in DOFP.

This. It's just not executed well.

 

[Stan Lee]

Public schools are taught that Magneto is the worlds most wanted fugitive.

And that is why he was caught after he used his powers. People knew they alike but just thought it was coincidence. Like how there are also were people who look like Osama Bin Laden before he was killed.

 

[def28]

How is the public not gonna blame him for this when they already look at him as the world most wanted fugitive? You don't see how this writing is completely idiotic?

Either Moira said Magneto is a good guy to the government or someone saw Magento helping the X-Men, now all is ok for everyone! Never mind that worlds destruction stuff and the other films. Or actually explaining this conclusion in detail.

Come on, this script is a lazy joke. There was no scenario where Magneto should be walking off without the world or the X-Men being worried.

 

[Stan Lee]

You don't see how that direction of actually showing someone in that state leads audiences to think a certain way? There is a full on struggle and visually they are showing Xavier is not in control.

The hypnotizing of the horsemen is done so poorly and weak, that it basically looks like, hey heres a new power now follow me and commit one of the worst crimes and murder to the world ever. It makes all these characters look either bad villains in nature or just stupid. It's done horribly. With Xavier there is an effort. It's not some small difference.

What they show is not enough to give depth to anyone or show any sort of struggle, and with Magneto we have already seen him make the mistake of trying to ruin the world over and over for the past 16 years on film.

The scene with Xavier was meant to communicate that that the power-ups have altering effects and the horsemen weren't simply stupid. The audience is suppose to piece two and two together.

 

[def28]

The scene with Xavier was meant to communicate that that the power-ups have altering effects and the horsemen weren't simply stupid. The audience is suppose to piece two and two together.

...and they do. Xavier was violently taken over against his will, fought and asked everyone to make it stop. While the weak minded and under written characters followed a dull cult leader around murdering the world. That's what the film showed us. A bunch of under developed characters and a contrived plotline to make an already redundant villain who makes poor choices even more powerful.

But you think people should be blaming the one character the filmmakers actually showed not in control? No.

 

[Stan Lee]

How is the public not gonna blame him for this when they already look at him as the world most wanted fugitive? You don't see how this writing is completely idiotic?

Nobody was there to see he was the one causing the destruction. Everyone in that area was dead.

Either Moira said Magneto is a good guy to the government or someone saw Magento helping the X-Men, now all is ok for everyone! Never mind that worlds destruction stuff and the other films. Or actually explaining this conclusion in detail.

Come on, this script is a lazy joke.

It was Moira that made the call.

 

[def28]

Nobody was there to see he was the one causing the destruction. Everyone in that area was dead.

Nobody saw Magneto do anything bad in this film?

It was Moira that made the call.

You or I don't know that as fact which is why I put both options there. Cause when they mention Erik, it is another person commenting.
All we know is someone says he aided the battle. This film says screw actual details and reason.

I'm gonna say it was in a deleted Jubilee scene, and this is all part of that grand scheme on how she rises to power over the world in the next film. It's all there if you look at the film closely. I know others have missed it but it's there. You can see the future when Chalres is in Cerebro. It's not bad writing, you just have to pay attention.

 

[GuestStar2004]

How about putting him in prison with mutant power inhibitors or at least having him in hiding or on the run? Hell humans have gotten death penalty for much less. But the movie decided to have him amicably parting ways with Charles. Huh.

And whats wrong with having him part ways with charles in a relaxed environment?, does he have to do a wolverine and just run off into the night with the idea in mind he will hide in a pit so he can't be in the next movie? is that the frame of mind?

Look if it was storm in that position, say she created thunder and lighting that was destroying buildings and stuff everywhere... would you be saying she should go to jail? no because that would mean storm is out the X-Men so you would likely argue that either it was a bad decision for the creative team to have her do that or say that she should join the X-Men to try and make amends for her actions, or heck even that she was just as much a victim of apocalypse

The decision behind what they did with magento probably was likely less about bad writing and more done for the sake of his character and his journey through the movie where he started out trying to lead a normal life with his wife and young daughter, he saves someone that was almost crushed by something and then has his family is killed for it while he is trying to give himself in order to protect them so he was in a emotional vulnerable struggle when apocalypse finds him.

The excuses for XMA's sloppy writing have gone overboard. The next one will have to come up with a very good excuse as to why Magneto is out and about, or why the X-Men should even trust him in the first place. Or they probably won't even address it and hope we forget about it like Mystique fishing Wolverine out of water in DOFP.

You are right they probably won't acknowledge it for the next movie, just like chances at that point there probably won't be trust issues with cyclops over storm having worked with a bad guy, chances are the next film will just be starting a new story altogether.

Its also like with Logan, i wouldn't be surprised if there is very little to no referencing the events of DOFP, not because they didn't happen but because they have no place in that story.

 

[Stan Lee]

...and they do. Xavier was violently taken over against his will, fought and asked everyone to make it stop. While the weak minded and under written characters followed a dull cult leader around murdering the world. That's what the film showed us. A bunch of under developed characters and a contrived plotline to make an already redundant villain who makes poor choices even more powerful.

But you think people should be blaming the one character the filmmakers actually showed not in control? No.

It didn't show he was taken over, Apocalypse even said that he doesn't control minds like a telepath. So...

 

[def28]

It didn't show he was taken over, Apocalypse even said that he doesn't control minds like a telepath. So...

Oh yes it does. It visually shows him being taken over by a force he doesn't want, not in control and fighting it.

If Apocalypse can't do that then maybe they should have went another direction right?

 

[Stan Lee]

Nobody saw Magneto do anything bad in this film?

Nobody that would rat him out to the general public.

You or I don't know that as fact which is why I put both options there. Cause when they mention Erik, it is another person commenting.
All we know is someone says he aided the battle. This film says screw actual details and reason.

I just checked. It was Moira that made the report. It was stated in the news broadcasting scene.

 

[def28]

I just checked. It was Moira that made the report. It was stated in the news broadcasting scene.

Nope, you or I can assume that. But they switch the people talking.

The fact we have to go back to the film to make sure of that shows how poorly it was given in the film. It's just lightly and very quickly mentioned to wrap up the film.

 

[Legion]

Magneto doesn't have to be an X-Man to become involved, Quicksilver could go find him for whatever reason which gets magneto involved to some degree, its as simple as that really as Magneto doesn't have to play the villain anymore, he can play the father figure.

After apocalypse i think they acknowledged all the magneto backstabbing was done with.



Thats probably not as big an elephant in the room as you may think, i doubt anyone will be yelling at magneto about how he almost destroyed the world while magneto breaks down crying.

What? He's going to be crying? That's why he shouldn't be held accountable ?

 

[Stan Lee]

Oh yes it does. It visually shows him being taken over by a force he doesn't want, not in control and fighting it.

If Apocalypse can't do that then maybe they should have went another direction right?

No, it shows his powers being enhanced. His eyes turned black like Jean's did in The Last Stand to suggest this and further implied with him saying "I've never felt power like this before". And he didn't really fight it, he was shocked by Cerebro which snapped him out of it.

Just a simple misread of the scene.

 

[def28]

No, it shows his powers being enhanced.His eyes turned black like Jean's did in The Last Stand to suggest this and further implied with him saying "I've never felt power like this before". And he didn't really fight it, he was shocked by Cerebro which snapped him out of it.

Just a simple misread of the scene.

No it's a poorly depicted use of power with Apocalypse through the whole film which is what I have been trying to get you to understand.

You want audiences to blame Prof X. Well they are not gonna do that when said scene is clearly under direction that he has little to no control over himself. If they didn't want the audience to look at things that way then they should have done a better job at getting that point across. You can't blame the audience when the film is pretty much showing them these things.

Going back to X3 Phoenix for something like that is pointless.

 

[GuestStar2004]

What? He's going to be crying? That's why he shouldn't be held accountable ?

No I am saying what exactly are you expecting from it being held on his head? I assume some think he will turn up to help and they will be like hey remember when you killed people Eric? Go away!.