Apocalypse X-Men Apocalypse News and Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 43

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BvS is unwatchable. I never saw a movie edited so absurdly bad which takes itself so seriously at the same time. It was scene following scene but without any reasons why. When I watched it in cinema I really wanted to leave.

The extreme, aggressive hyper-masculinity of Bruce Wayne and Superman was simply disgusting. If I had to interpret the movie in detail I would even see a certain homophobic subtext represented by the character Lex Luther as the main villain. I do not think this is a coincidence because also "300" has a similar very transphobic and homophobic subtext represented by the character Xerxes. Snyder has a very conservative idea what heroic masculinity entails and produces supposedly deviant masculinities as the villains of his movies...

I cannot remember the last time I was intellectually so offended by any mainstream movie (besides everything done by Michael Bay of course)...

I grew up reading Batman comics and this idiotic monster on steroids called Bruce Wayne is definitely NOT the Batman I read and enjoyed.

in brief, "MAAARTTHHHAAAAA!"
 
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The theatrical version of BvS is one of the worst chopped films I've seen. But then I saw Suicide Squad.

All three of these films were huge let downs for me in regards to character and plot.

But even with a filmmaker like Michael Bay there's a lot I can appreciate in terms of visuals and the use of practical fx and digital. Likewise with Synder on certain levels.
 
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The extended cut for BvS really changed my view on the film. It's still definitely way too long and overstuffed with plot lines, but it feels like a real movie unlike the horrible theatrical cut. Suicide Squad got only worse with the extended cut, what a mess.
 
BVS is mixed film to me.batman parts make it watchable.stil snyder does terrable with Superman.I liked wonder woman but other heroes cameos were worthless.I felt the critics were a bit too harsh on BVS but i agree completly with surcide squad.worst live action joker i have seen.I would take 1960's joker over Surcide Squad's joker.
 
The extended cut for BvS really changed my view on the film. It's still definitely way too long and overstuffed with plot lines, but it feels like a real movie unlike the horrible theatrical cut. Suicide Squad got only worse with the extended cut, what a mess.

Completely agreed, the extended cut of BvS is far superior and the Extended Suicide Squad cut somehow managed to get worse.
 
The extended cut for BvS really changed my view on the film. It's still definitely way too long and overstuffed with plot lines, but it feels like a real movie unlike the horrible theatrical cut. Suicide Squad got only worse with the extended cut, what a mess.

I found the extended cut of BvS to be more sleep-inducing. Me and my cousin just couldn't finish it with one sitting. Had to finish watching it the next day.

Even Micheal Shannon fell asleep watching it.
 
On the other hand, it might be a blessing in that maybe the heads at FOX are made aware how much better the next film needs to be.

Considering their reasoning was pretty shallow I doubt it.
 
So X-Men is almost the whipping boy at the moment, the one people are against because FOX have shown they ain't trying to copy marvel and are doing pretty much their own thing with it
Or because they have shown they can't tell when scripts are sloppy sometimes. Is that good enough for you?
 
On the other hand, it might be a blessing in that maybe the heads at FOX are made aware how much better the next film needs to be.

better than Days of Future Past, X2 and First Class? WOW, I cannot wait to see THAT movie (a.k.a. X-Men: Citizen Kane ).
 
Oh X-Men. You do torture me. I'm living a painfully internet-free lifestyle at the moment, but there have been a few pages of interesting discussion here that I've been itching to contribute to. (Wall of text incoming)

What kind of persuasion power does Apocalypse posses? The fact that there is debate about it on here is proof enough that his power-set was poorly explained in the film. I don't really buy the “drugged up” angle, especially if Charles' experiences are anything to go by. He is briefly over-come during the Cerebro sequence, because Apocalypse took over Cerebro. Stated clear as day in the film. Charles is briefly lost in the commotion before begging to be separated from the device. Later, Apocalypse gives him the same power boost as the horsemen in order to deliver a speech to the world. There is absolutely no sign of him being corrupted by it. Charles switches up the speech toward the end as an act of defiance. There was no influence there.

Furthermore, to say the horsemen's silent roles in the film is an indication that they were in some sort of trance sounds pretty fishy to me. A convenient way to explain away yet another set of under-developed mute henchmen, perhaps. The film presents these four characters as very easily seduced, and the ones that turn back do so just as easily. A great shame too, because that is four major characters flushed down the toilet all at once. Lets takes a look at each one, just for fun...

Magneto gets the most material because he is Magneto, because he is Michael Fassbender, and because Fassbender is 1/3 of the core cast contractually obliged to this “trilogy” (more on that later). Ironically, he is just as under-served by this film as the other three despite having more screen-time. I say this because his material is a bunch of rehashed woe that exists solely to get him on the evil team again. Needless to say I agree with those who said another set of dead family members was unnecessary, adding nothing to the character, merely fogging up an already perfect tragic backstory. Fassbender can act the hell out of suffering, don't get me wrong, and I can imagine a scenario where this storyline could play nicely, it just isn't this.
The only remotely interesting thing Magneto does in this film is ultimately fight for good. Sadly, it comes about too late, after too much destruction, and a few flip-flops too many. Erik was living a peaceful existence when this film opened, and all it took was a damn workplace accident to make him a murderer again (yeah I know Apocalypse awaking caused that factory incident, but lets not pretend an earth-quake or a simple mistake couldn't have had the same effect.) I didn't leave this film thinking Erik had turned a corner. I left wondering what will cause his next violent mood swing. As a result, the brief, light conversation between him and Charles at the end of the film rung false. You don't just walk away all smiles and banter after what happened.

[To those who were also left cold by Magneto in this film... How would you have felt if it was the death of Erik's wife and child that caused him to shift toward good in the movie? He holds himself responsible for their death, never aligns with Apocalypse and joins the X-Men early? Would a different response make the familiar story beat feel justified? Food for thought.]


Next up... well... If I was to dedicate two paragraphs to each remaining horseman I would have officially spent more time on those guys than the film-makers did so lets wrap them up quickly. Angel, Psylocke and even Storm may as well have been names on a dartboard. Angel was picked because of his history with Apocalypse in the comics, not that any of the meat from those stories was brought over with him. Psylocke was literally chosen to make up the numbers, picked by Kinberg after a google search. Storm was a horseman because they thought it would be interesting to introduce a hero in a villainous role. She gets a mini arc about being bad for a little bit and then deciding not to be bad any more. That's about as deep as her story goes. Will her villainous origin make any impact on future stories? Doubtful.
Our poor Ororro has never really had a fair shake in this franchise. Many question the casting of Halle Berry, and while I'd agree she has been pretty terrible in places, I do wonder if she really had all that much to work with. The adorable Alexandra Shipp now wears the mantle, and I'm cautiously optimistic about her in the role. Despite getting the usual Storm treatment (i.e. nothing to do), the actor still made an impression on me. The caution is purely because Kinberg is still around and there is absolutely no reason to think he will break tradition and do something good. It's a sad truth that Storm is just one of many, many characters that is still sorely under-utilised after 16 years on film. Angel and Psylocke were both (continuity demolishing) second attempts at the characters, and for the most part they missed the mark just as badly as the first time around. Great job guys.

This has been quite an epic, but if you're still reading, allow me to pick up on that “trilogy” thing again. I believe the film was wrong-headed from its inception. Apocalypse exists as it is because there is a cast contracted for a trilogy. This isn't a trilogy. Apocalypse is the 6th film, 3rd prequel, and reboot at the same time. That is a cluster***** in the making, and the film groans under the weight of its own context.
There was no way Apocalypse was going to be a more effective “culmination” of the franchise than DOFP if only for it not having all the cast. Why even bother? The film needed to be a fresh start with a new focus and new stories. I know Charles, Erik and Raven were the big names on the call sheet but DOFP paid them off brilliantly. When you think about what we learned about these characters in Apocalypse, was it really necessary beyond what DOFP told us? For instance, Charles went ahead and formed the X-Men, just like he promised in DOFP. He also learned to let go of his control over women, just like he did with Raven in DOFP. It may have been cathartic to see Jean flourish under Xavier's more mature guidance in Apocalypse, but we already know he had changed for the better for the fact that she is alive and well in the future coda. It was time for them all to slide down the roster a little.
Weapon X, Stryker, Phoenix etc. are all too familiar for a fresh start, and it was time to drop all the annoying prequel-schtick, like grand backstories for hairstyles and “cute” meta-dialogue. Finally, it was a mistake to close the film on the costumed team. You open with that. It was the 80's dammit! Stop teasing, it took a whole 20 years to form the X-Men in this continuity.

As much as I don't like Apocalypse, there is no way in hell it is worse than DC's awful, awful releases this past year.
 
What kind of persuasion power does Apocalypse posses? The fact that there is debate about it on here is proof enough that his power-set was poorly explained in the film.

Not really. Singer wanted us to debate about it. I already posted the interview stating so that he wanted it to be ambiguous.

I don't really buy the “drugged up” angle, especially if Charles' experiences are anything to go by. He is briefly over-come during the Cerebro sequence, because Apocalypse took over Cerebro. Stated clear as day in the film.

Charles is briefly lost in the commotion before begging to be separated from the device. Later, Apocalypse gives him the same power boost as the horsemen in order to deliver a speech to the world. There is absolutely no sign of him being corrupted by it. Charles switches up the speech toward the end as an act of defiance. There was no influence there.

He took over Cerebro the same way he took over that TV and made it do its job better. And what is Cerebro's job? Enhancing Charles' powers, which has been stated repeatedly for 16 years. That's why Chuck says "I've never felt power like this before". So he was been empowered that very moment.

The reason why I said "drugged up" is because that's how it was in the comic. They got high off the power they were feeling.

If Magneto and Storm can break free of the influence why can't Chuck?


Furthermore, to say the horsemen's silent roles in the film is an indication that they were in some sort of trance sounds pretty fishy to me. A convenient way to explain away yet another set of under-developed mute henchmen, perhaps. The film presents these four characters as very easily seduced, and the ones that turn back do so just as easily. A great shame too, because that is four major characters flushed down the toilet all at once. Lets takes a look at each one, just for fun...

Who said anything about their silence? Quote the post, please.

I said looked and sounded like they were in a trance when ever they spoke. Storm sounded like a robot while Angel looked high as a kite.

There is also Storm's massive change in personality after the power-up as a big hint.

I say this because his material is a bunch of rehashed woe that exists solely to get him on the evil team again. Needless to say I agree with those who said another set of dead family members was unnecessary, adding nothing to the character, merely fogging up an already perfect tragic backstory.

That was meant to set-up some drama with Quicksilver. Remember what his mother said about how he shouldn't be involved with his father because it wouldn't end well? What happened to that other family Magneto had and was involved with comes to mind doesn't it? That is why Quicksilver doesn't want to get involved with him in the end. He realized that his mother was right through the death of that family.

In the comics Quicksilver and Magneto had a dysfunctional relationship back when they were related.


This has been quite an epic, but if you're still reading, allow me to pick up on that “trilogy” thing again. I believe the film was wrong-headed from its inception. Apocalypse exists as it is because there is a cast contracted for a trilogy. This isn't a trilogy. Apocalypse is the 6th film, 3rd prequel, and reboot at the same time. That is a cluster***** in the making, and the film groans under the weight of its own context.
There was no way Apocalypse was going to be a more effective “culmination” of the franchise than DOFP if only for it not having all the cast. Why even bother? The film needed to be a fresh start with a new focus and new stories. I know Charles, Erik and Raven were the big names on the call sheet but DOFP paid them off brilliantly. When you think about what we learned about these characters in Apocalypse, was it really necessary beyond what DOFP told us? For instance, Charles went ahead and formed the X-Men, just like he promised in DOFP. He also learned to let go of his control over women, just like he did with Raven in DOFP. It may have been cathartic to see Jean flourish under Xavier's more mature guidance in Apocalypse, but we already know he had changed for the better for the fact that she is alive and well in the future coda. It was time for them all to slide down the roster a little.
Weapon X, Stryker, Phoenix etc. are all too familiar for a fresh start, and it was time to drop all the annoying prequel-schtick, like grand backstories for hairstyles and “cute” meta-dialogue. Finally, it was a mistake to close the film on the costumed team. You open with that. It was the 80's dammit! Stop teasing, it took a whole 20 years to form the X-Men in this continuity.

DOFP wasn't even meant to be a culmination nor felt like it. It left major loose ends that needed to be tied with regards to Erik and Raven. Raven didn't come home and Erik didn't get the years wasted fighting Charles back. We didn't see them going on a better path. Not to mention there is also the case with Moria, another woman Xavier tried to control still had her mind being controlled. Beast didn't embrace himself. And Quicksilver and Magneto's relationship.

DOFP ended with Chuck saying that he has hope in those two changing. That ending doesn't sound like closure but set-up.
 
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I think I agree with both sides of the discussion. StanLee really has a point with his analysis and idea but unfortunately it is still very badly done in the movie and becomes barely noticeable. I also think, for example, that Magneto becomes awkwardly "somnolent" in the third act...

I think it also could be argued that Apocalypse used his voice to manipulate/seduce people's emotions (the effect on his voice is very strong actually and I think Singer manipulated Oscar Isaac's voice for a reason). He basically increased the anger of his horsemen (Angel for being abducted and forced to kill other mutants, Magneto's tragic family loss, Storm's life as a street child in Cairo...). These motivations of the horsemen are implied but way too subtle! When "Days of Future Past" was about not giving in to the anger and rage that comes from marginalization and discrimination, "X:A" intended to show what would happen if mutants actually do the opposite. This conflict should have been the central focus of the entire movie in my eyes, giving the horsemen a understandable motivations for siding with Apocalypse and revealing that Apocalypse increases their emotional state of anger.

I like that Singer normally is not very much on the nose about everything and often only implies answers for his movies but in the case of "X-Men:Apocalypse" it was very badly done and often did not make sense at all BECAUSE IT NEEDED CLEAR ARTICULATION! Magneto leaving the X-Men with a smile after he tried to destroy the world is really bizarre and unacceptable. Yes, he was in a weak state. Yes, his family was killed. But this does not justifies his action siding with a mass-murderer like Apocalypse and killing thousands. The moment Apocalypse destroyed Cairo and none of his horsemen intervened, made them all complicit in his murder.

The last conversation with Xavier should have been a clear explanation about what happened to him: "Charles, I did not know what I did. Apocalypse accessed my anger and made me do these horrible things" - "Yes, I understand, my old friend, I felt his power too." blablabla. Otherwise the ending just felt bizarre and wrong.

I think the movie could have been easily improved with a) giving the horsemen clear motivations/revealing all of them/their backstory as marginalized individuals fighting for acceptance against horrible situations and b) explaining Apocalypse power on them more directly (.........and c) improving the action scenes and general aesthetic of the movie A LOT!)
 
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I thought the story went well until the Quicksilver scene actually. It feels like that scene was forced into the plot. Then Striker showing up felt like the movie was just heading in the wrong direction. But yeah, the scene right before, when Apocalypse hacked Cerebro, was way cool.
 
I thought the story went well until the Quicksilver scene actually. It feels like that scene was forced into the plot. Then Striker showing up felt like the movie was just heading in the wrong direction. But yeah, the scene right before, when Apocalypse hacked Cerebro, was way cool.

I agree. same for me. The Quicksilver scene is the moment when the entire movie falls apart as if they did not finalized the rest of the plot and just gave us unnecessary fan service (the whole Wolverine detour shouldn't have been in the movie...).
 
Regarding Xavier letting Magneto off the hook in APOCALYPSE...he did much the same thing in DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.

Xavier's apparent blindspot when it comes to Magneto, wanting his friend to be redeemed is well established in this franchise.
 
Regarding Xavier letting Magneto off the hook in APOCALYPSE...he did much the same thing in DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.

Xavier's apparent blindspot when it comes to Magneto, wanting his friend to be redeemed is well established in this franchise.

I don't recall Magneto killing millions in DOFP.
 
Worst movie of the year? That's absolutely insane. It might be the biggest disappointment after Days of Future Past, but definitely not even close to being the worst. That top-10 doesn't even list stuff like 50 Shades of Black, Allegiant, Gods of Egypt or Alice Through the Looking Glass.
 
Regarding Xavier letting Magneto off the hook in APOCALYPSE...he did much the same thing in DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.

Xavier's apparent blindspot when it comes to Magneto, wanting his friend to be redeemed is well established in this franchise.

Which is why it's getting redundant. It makes Xavier look very naive. He can't keep letting Magneto go and have the audience believe he's making the world a better place.

Magneto doesnt always go free in the comics. See Fatal Attractions as an example.
 
Regarding Xavier letting Magneto off the hook in APOCALYPSE...he did much the same thing in DAYS OF FUTURE PAST.

Xavier's apparent blindspot when it comes to Magneto, wanting his friend to be redeemed is well established in this franchise.

the difference is that Magneto's action in DoFP were very much justified. The president of the United States build a weapon which would/could kill all mutants in the future, Magneto made sure to warn Nixon that he should not mess with the wrong race using his weapons against him. Justified violence in my book.I totally understand why Xavier let him fly away.

Xavier and Magneto are obviously in love with each other but I still do not understand Xavier's or Magneto's behavior in "X:A" at all. :loco:
 
Worst movie of the year? That's absolutely insane. It might be the biggest disappointment after Days of Future Past, but definitely not even close to being the worst. That top-10 doesn't even list stuff like 50 Shades of Black, Allegiant, Gods of Egypt or Alice Through the Looking Glass.

Time naming X:A worst movie of the year

+

Suicide Squad getting recognition from Critics' Choice Awards by way of Margot Robbie

=

me taking crazy pills.
 
Wait, Time Magazine named XM:A the worst movie of the year?
I ain't mad about it. It might not be the worst but it certainly belongs on the list.
 
Wait, Time Magazine named XM:A the worst movie of the year?
I ain't mad about it. It might not be the worst but it certainly belongs on the list.

Maybe but it's not even the worst comicbook movie of the year.
 
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