Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[Cktopl33]

So people should be careful about posting rumours but also here are rumours? What kind of hypocrisy is this?

No EnDz0n3. People are free to post rumors or speculation. But stating rumors as fact...or posting debunked rumors as if they're legitimate....are a different matter. Which I clearly did not do. That's not hypocrisy. Apart from rumors of a part two, from website to Olivia Munn's comments....I remember reading tweets awhile back last year of stunt doubles who said they were returning to Montreal later on for the second film. So there's some weight to that rumor. Try again next time please.

 

[Charzhin0]

This is off topic but having seen how well Thanos looked, they really should have made Apocalypse CG/motion capture.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Since this could be the first time they have released an X-Men movie (excluding logan) that doesn't have X-Men in the title i am thinking they may not use the X-Men theme from the previous movies after all.

 

[Cktopl33]

Since this could be the first time they have released an X-Men movie (excluding logan) that doesn't have X-Men in the title i am thinking they may not use the X-Men theme from the previous movies after all.

They likely won't be doing that. It's a different creative team, different composer, different tone, and different cinematic style according to the producer.

 

[Jh7058622]

I like that they appear to be incorporating the Phoenix emblem into the title, but ditch the red circle around the X.

I think they are trying to call back to the "First Class" X but failing due to the color scheme.

 

[BMM]

This is off topic but having seen how well Thanos looked, they really should have made Apocalypse CG/motion capture.

They should have done a lot of things differently in Apocalypse. I’m not sure a CGI villain would have been better, though, given the quality of the CGI in the movie.

I think they are trying to call back to the "First Class" X but failing due to the color scheme.

Possibly. It just looks a little too made-for-TV, in my opinion.

 

[sleekstereo]

So people should be careful about posting rumours but also here are rumours? What kind of hypocrisy is this?

As someone who has been involved in mergers & acquisitions, and works in an HR function, the notion that Disney is already dictating anything to Fox smells like ******** to me. This stuff is sensitive people, you have no idea how delicate Fox and Disney need to be here.

Disney can have their initial planning internally, all companies do that, but they cannot dictate what Fox is doing. I don't know how clear executives from both companies can be on this matter.

 

[The Guard]

As someone who has been involved in mergers & acquisitions, and works in an HR function, the notion that Disney is already dictating anything to Fox smells like ******** to me. This stuff is sensitive people, you have no idea how delicate Fox and Disney need to be here.

Disney can have their initial planning internally, all companies do that, but they cannot dictate what Fox is doing. I don't know how clear executives from both companies can be on this matter.

This. I can't see them ever, ever jeapordizing a merger of this scale with any kind of relatively insignificant tampering.

 

[Lip]

Other than the studio, the director primarily has the power to say how the character will be portrayed because its based on the director's vision. This film will be Kinberg's vision, which we have yet to see.



Which doesn't dismiss the fact that the First Class trilogy was completed with Apocalypse. Hence....TRILOGY. THREE. Group of three related films. Mystique already has a different look from those films even in makeup in the official released photos for Dark Phoenix.

In terms of how different this movie is in relation to the previous x-men films:
Semi-reboot or reset are what the press used as a way to describe these changes:



Of course there's a twist in the movie that could actually be the primary source of a full on reboot: Which perhaps hinted a rumors of a two-parter that would likely have been scrapped due to the merger deal.

On a latter note, reboots or semi reboots can keep actors. And with soft reboots, some of the previous canon, characters, continuity can carry over to the new movie. The story is certainly a reboot. In terms of tone, it's a reboot from the previous x-men films. Semi reboot or reset can be an attempt to take a franchise in a different direction, creatively. That was one of their big talking points for Dark Phoenix.

The soft reboot of The Dark Knight from Batman Begins is another example where Nolan even dropped Batman from the title. They're different movies in terms of narratives, styles:

Did you really write all of that stuff to try to make a point that Raven won't be portrayed the same way she has since 2011, as the character was established, in the movies written and produced by Kinberg?

And if you think Raven won't be in her human form because we haven't seen Kinberg as a director yet, let me ask you this: Do you think Raven was portrayed like JLaw because that was both Singer and Vaughn's vision? Do you think the demand came from that?

And do you know what reboot means in fiction? It means " to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate its characters, timeline and backstory from the beginning". Ragnarok and Winter Soldier weren't reboot just because they had different styles from their previous movies. Now do you know what a reboot is in comicbook movies? Days of Future Past. The movie discarded a whole timeline to start a new one with different versions of the characters. And prior and after this reboot, Raven was portrayed exactly the same way. "Hey, but her makeup is different in Dark Phoenix". Yes, her makeup is different, it looks good this time. But Raven looked different in both First Class and Days of Future Past. And she was still portrayed in her JLaw form in both movies.

This franchise already had a reboot, a real one, and that hasn't change how Raven was portrayed.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Do you think Raven was portrayed like JLaw because that was both Singer and Vaughn's vision? Do you think the demand came from that?

Funny enough yeah it probably was their vision. X-Men first class did it and she wasn't even known as JLaw at that point. although people probably watch that movie today and forget that fact.

 

[Ordet]

JLaw was better in his human form.
I don't know exactly what's the problem, but they cannot deliver a Mystica that visually works.

For the logo: i don't like it. The X remembers me more X-Files.

The "X-Men" missing in the title is a good thing for what Kinberg said about the movie: more focus on the x-women.

 

[Ordet]

Did you really write all of that stuff to try to make a point that Raven won't be portrayed the same way she has since 2011, as the character was established, in the movies written and produced by Kinberg?

And if you think Raven won't be in her human form because we haven't seen Kinberg as a director yet, let me ask you this: Do you think Raven was portrayed like JLaw because that was both Singer and Vaughn's vision? Do you think the demand came from that?

And do you know what reboot means in fiction? It means " to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate its characters, timeline and backstory from the beginning". Ragnarok and Winter Soldier weren't reboot just because they had different styles from their previous movies. Now do you know what a reboot is in comicbook movies? Days of Future Past. The movie discarded a whole timeline to start a new one with different versions of the characters. And prior and after this reboot, Raven was portrayed exactly the same way. "Hey, but her makeup is different in Dark Phoenix". Yes, her makeup is different, it looks good this time. But Raven looked different in both First Class and Days of Future Past. And she was still portrayed in her JLaw form in both movies.

This franchise already had a reboot, a real one, and that hasn't change how Raven was portrayed.

Days was not a reboot.

For the exactly reasons you said about what a reboot is.

 

[Cktopl33]

As someone who has been involved in mergers & acquisitions, and works in an HR function, the notion that Disney is already dictating anything to Fox smells like ******** to me. This stuff is sensitive people, you have no idea how delicate Fox and Disney need to be here.

Disney can have their initial planning internally, all companies do that, but they cannot dictate what Fox is doing. I don't know how clear executives from both companies can be on this matter.

I don't think you understand the point. Often human resources professionals are not sufficiently involved with the evaluation of target companies before deals are signed. Disney doesn't actually *have* to dictate anything. Top Fox executives could simply act in Disney's own best interest. Because they know....especially when it was announce that the acquisition will close by summer next year....that Fox will soon be in Disney's hands. Remember, mergers and acquisitions are an aspect of strategic management. Models for mergers and acquisitions often include a feedback loop to monitor execution and inform the next round of planning. And I also quote: "It is normal for mergers & Acquisition deal communications to take place in a so-called "confidentiality bubble" wherein the flow of information is restricted pursuant to confidentiality agreements." These transactions bring together different executives from both organizations, and establish the best strategy for planning, positioning, conveying and evaluating all communications. And there may have already been a deal set in place in the past with just the Marvel properties that we are unaware of that could be unaffected by what happens with the outcome of the acquisition. It could be that it may not even matter because Disney would still acquire the rights back either way. We know some properties have already reverted back to Marvel in the past.

Therefore, I'm pretty sure communications are happening back and forth between the two for a while that we simply aren't made aware of.

 

[Cktopl33]

Did you really write all of that stuff to try to make a point that Raven won't be portrayed the same way she has since 2011, as the character was established, in the movies written and produced by Kinberg?

And if you think Raven won't be in her human form because we haven't seen Kinberg as a director yet, let me ask you this: Do you think Raven was portrayed like JLaw because that was both Singer and Vaughn's vision? Do you think the demand came from that?

And do you know what reboot means in fiction? It means " to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate its characters, timeline and backstory from the beginning". Ragnarok and Winter Soldier weren't reboot just because they had different styles from their previous movies. Now do you know what a reboot is in comicbook movies? Days of Future Past. The movie discarded a whole timeline to start a new one with different versions of the characters. And prior and after this reboot, Raven was portrayed exactly the same way. "Hey, but her makeup is different in Dark Phoenix". Yes, her makeup is different, it looks good this time. But Raven looked different in both First Class and Days of Future Past. And she was still portrayed in her JLaw form in both movies.

This franchise already had a reboot, a real one, and that hasn't change how Raven was portrayed.

God. Now to break all this down. 1st, Kinberg hasn't written an x-men script solely on his own. Dark Phoenix will be his first. He was always a co-writer on these films. He also wasn't the only producer on the x-men movies. These films have always had several producers attached. When will you stop acting like Kinberg ran the entire franchise just because he's now directing his first film?

Let me explain to you the workings of film-making. The director primarily decides how a character will be portrayed. An actor can also have some say if they've achieve a certain status. The scripts for the movies kinberg helped co-write have always been created in collaboration with the directors. The directors decide how a character will appear on screen because they are directing. Not the scriptwriter. Directors can also change the script at will to suit their vision. Not the scriptwriter. This is the main reason kinberg wanted to direct his own script. To have more control. The screenwriter is not the one who wields the power. They are at the bottom of the list. Once the initial draft has been made, the primary job of the scriptwriter is rewrites to implement whatever changes are needed by all parties involved including the studio. The script is always changing because of said input.

2nd, do you know what reboot in film means? Not all reboots in film discard all continuity in an established series. And there is also the concept of semi reboots for creative changes. Raven in First Class and Days of Future Past were part of a trilogy. The creative team for Dark Phoenix has made it clear they want to change the interpersonal dynamics between these characters to separate it from the previous films. Does that mean she'll never be in human form throughout the entire film? No. She could always go in disguise for various reasons. She was portrayed in both her JLaw form and Mystique form in both those movies with Apocalypse mostly in JLaw form. However she did end Apocalypse in her blue form, indicating a shift. And as I said before, it's not the fact that she didn't like the makeup but that she had bad health complications because of it. They may have corrected that for this movie. Her role also might not be that large either given that she had no plans to return to the franchise and came onboard for Dark Phoenix because of a good working relationship with Kinberg. She had also publicly stated that she didn't mind not being the center focus in these x-men movies. So all this talk of her character may not be of much significance anyway. Since X-men was dropped from the title, that may indicate them being background characters with the center focus on Jean Grey.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I don't know exactly what's the problem, but they cannot deliver a Mystica that visually works.

Mystique is not actually that difficult. in the comics she was just a blue women with red hair.

Although blue characters will always be made a fun of in some compacity these days due to how commonly its used.

The first X-MEN movie added more details and layers to her look to probably give her a snake like appearance.

The "X-Men" missing in the title is a good thing for what Kinberg said about the movie: more focus on the x-women.

Thats probably not the reason "X-MEN" is not in the title.

Does that mean she'll never be in human form throughout the entire film? No. She could always go in disguise for various reasons. She was portrayed in both her JLaw form and Mystique form in both those movies with Apocalypse mostly in JLaw form. However she did end Apocalypse in her blue form, indicating a shift. And as I said before, it's not the fact that she didn't like the makeup but that she had bad health complications because of it. They may have corrected that for this movie. Her role also might not be that large either given that she had no plans to return to the franchise and came onboard for Dark Phoenix because of a good working relationship with Kinberg. She had also publicly stated that she didn't mind not being the center focus in these x-men movies. So all this talk of her character may not be of much significance anyway. Since X-men was dropped from the title, that may indicate them being background characters with the center focus on Jean Grey.

If [BLACKOUT]she doesn't make it out of the movie alive[/BLACKOUT] then i could see her appearing in human form at least once in the film (if even that tbh) but mostly because of her characters journey and tieing it together with what FC started.

While if i remember right she only filmed for 3 weeks or something but its fair to say that Mystique probably won't be a background character and that she will have some importance as part of the X-Men family and really if people are gonna end up over sensitive about that then they will likely Find alot (more) to complain about.

 

[Alison Blaire]

Looks like a case for Mulder and Scully.

Yes!X-Files revival in 2019!

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Funny enough yeah it probably was their vision. X-Men first class did it and she wasn't even known as JLaw at that point. although people probably watch that movie today and forget that fact.

Yep, it was near the release of First Class that I first came up with the nickname on these very forums... who knew it’d take off like it did?

 

[psylockolussus]

The title card/logo don't look great. Though I think they would later change it.

Anyway, I will give them props for just calling it Dark Phoeni(X). Though given the current hype of this film, I don't think it would be beneficial.

 

[X-Maniac]

Since X-men was dropped from the title, that may indicate them being background characters with the center focus on Jean Grey.

Great. Another X-Men movie with the X-Men in the background. They were already background characters in X-Men Apocalypse and also very undeveloped in several of the other movies.

Whoopee. This Kinberg directing debut sounds better by the minute.

 

[SumT]

Ive thought about this issue too.
If the movie ends being called Dark Phoenix after all, it would be the most accurate tittle from these prequels: the movie not being called X-Men and the X-men being used as just background, or mostly action characters, well, would be accurate finally.

the previous movies fooled us big time. But now it would be accurate.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Just as 1627523 stated, according to Slugzilla Disney is already pulling strings behind the scenes if not heavy influence. It seem Dark Phoenix may be spared because it will likely release before the deal is done

Who knows whether Slugzilla is telling the truth or not. he definantly gives a convincing talk but there are moments like hearing Disney have any small input at all in something they shouldn't have any input on that does seem odd.

I was also scratching my head when he said Colossus and X23 were gonna be in reshoots of New Mutants since it always sounded odd to me that this would be the film where 2 characters got cherry picked from 2 other spin offs to be part of it.

We don't know whats happening behind the scenes so he could very well be telling the truth (at least to his knowledge).

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Slugzilla is not a reliable source. Stop talking about him.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Talking about Slugzilla breaks no rules; they can talk about the rumors surrounding him as long as it pertains to the topic of this thread.

 

[Ryan1210]

Whaaaat? This is so random lol.

Stacey Butterworth ... wig maker: Storm, Mystique, Quicksilver, Red Lotus

 

[Jh7058622]

Yep, it was near the release of First Class that I first came up with the nickname on these very forums... who knew it’d take off like it did?

Actually her friends have called her that since childhood. You didn't coin the phrase.