Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 14

[Lip]

Whats this argument that the MCU launches careers. If that's true than I shouldn't still be waiting for ma boi Anthony Mackie to join the fast & furious franchise. Make it happen DIESEL! Tye Sheridan alone at this point pretty much accomplished more in his career than 1/3 of the MCU actors can ever hope to dream for.

Ok, I just have to reply to this with this article:

To the best of our ability, actors who have appeared in a Marvel Cinematic Universe film have received 502 nominations for various awards across the Oscars, Golden Globes, and Emmys. The full breakdown:

Oscar Nominations: 87
Oscar Wins: 15
Emmy Nominations: 156
Emmy Wins: 38
Golden Globe Nominations (Film): 102
Golden Globe Wins (Film): 20
Golden Globe Nominations (Television): 69
Golden Globe Wins (Television): 15

Tye Sheridan is a great actor, I really like him. But people really need to stop trying to **** in everything related to Marvel Studios. Now even the actors. Gez.

Also, the point made about Anthony Mackie can be made about Daniel Cudmore, Famke Janssen, Alexandra Shipp, Lucas Till, Shawn Ashmore, Lana Condor and others...

Edit: Oh, by the way you can add Ben Mendelsohn, Jude Law, Annete Benning in that award list. And I'm not sure if they're counting other actors like Michelle Pfeiffer or Brie Larson who have been announced before but haven't appeared yet.

 

[Zant]

Oh GOD...this place

Anyway James McAvoy>>>>>>>>The rest Lol...

 

[Drexelhand]

Ok, I just have to reply to this with this article:



Tye Sheridan is a great actor, I really like him. But people really need to stop trying to **** in everything related to Marvel Studios. Now even the actors. Gez.

Also, the point made about Anthony Mackie can be made about Daniel Cudmore, Famke Janssen, Alexandra Shipp, Lucas Till, Shawn Ashmore, Lana Condor and others...

Edit: Oh, by the way you can add Ben Mendelsohn, Jude Law, Annete Benning in that award list. And I'm not sure if they're counting other actors like Michelle Pfeiffer or Brie Larson who have been announced before but haven't appeared yet.

That argument was Tye Sheridan at this stage in his career compared to MCU actors at a similar juncture in their career and its not without fault - of course the MCU has actors like RDJr, Norton, Ejiofor and all who match or exceed Sheridan at this point, but he's so far proven himself to be incredibly succesful. It is also worth noting that the same applies to X-Men movie series actors too.

 

[Jh7058622]

It's your holier-than-thou attitude that gets old. Being condescending and passive aggressive, especially when making assumptions about other people, is counter productive and off-putting.

Movies happen to be a passion of mine, so I know a great deal about the industry and how the process works. So "educating" me about filmmaking is not only unnecessary but laughable.

I wonder, though, do you happen to be on the spectrum? Because you seem to take things a bit too literally, and go off on unrelated, excessive digressions. I don't mean to offend, just genuinely curious.

Why would you ask someone that are you on the spectrum because asking inappropriate questions in the wrong settings is also a common in that group? Oh wait, that is probably none of my damn business?

 

[1627523]

Ok, I just have to reply to this with this article:



Tye Sheridan is a great actor, I really like him. But people really need to stop trying to **** in everything related to Marvel Studios. Now even the actors. Gez.

Also, the point made about Anthony Mackie can be made about Daniel Cudmore, Famke Janssen, Alexandra Shipp, Lucas Till, Shawn Ashmore, Lana Condor and others...

Edit: Oh, by the way you can add Ben Mendelsohn, Jude Law, Annete Benning in that award list. And I'm not sure if they're counting other actors like Michelle Pfeiffer or Brie Larson who have been announced before but haven't appeared yet.

I think we're having a misunderstanding here. We're talking about actors that were launched because of the MCU or x-men franchises. For example someone like Tye Sheridan would fall into that category, but actors like Patrick Stewart or Kevin Bacon would definitely not count since they already had a healthy career before joining the franchise. On the MCU side you have actors like The Chris's and Scarjo who were definitely launched by the MCU, but actors like Cate Blanchett, Michelle Pfeiffer, Jude Law, Ben Mendelson do not count because they do not need the MCU to help their career. If you compare Tye to Tom Holland, since their both new comers, you can definitely see Tye is branching out more while Tom doesn't really have anything else noteworthy. I know Tom has an Uncharted movie coming up, but I have serious doubts that's ever getting off the ground. In all I think this whole argument is kind of pointless I mean like what are we trying to prove here? This means nothing.

 

[Jh7058622]

^^^^
What 16 said.

Ok, I just have to reply to this with this article:



Tye Sheridan is a great actor, I really like him. But people really need to stop trying to **** in everything related to Marvel Studios. Now even the actors. Gez.

Also, the point made about Anthony Mackie can be made about Daniel Cudmore, Famke Janssen, Alexandra Shipp, Lucas Till, Shawn Ashmore, Lana Condor and others...

Edit: Oh, by the way you can add Ben Mendelsohn, Jude Law, Annete Benning in that award list. And I'm not sure if they're counting other actors like Michelle Pfeiffer or Brie Larson who have been announced before but haven't appeared yet.

You missed the point entirely someone said once you are involved with MCU you will get an Oscar because everyone will put you in Oscar award winning films because you were in a Disney Marvel film. That literally hasn't happened for most people outside of RDJ no actor after being cast as an MCU character has received a Oscar. I don't even care it was just an asinine thing to say that is easily debunked. Most people received their awards before joining the MCU which is fine and some are amazing actors but they (correct me if I'm wrong of course) haven't received an Oscar after being associated with that studio.

Also Alexandra Shipp has been in plenty of critically acclaimed roles compared to her peers like Tom Holland. She has a fine career ahead of her also Condor is being cast for many promising projects. Not to mention Zoey Kravitz current working with multiple Oscar winners in BLL. Do your homework.

 

[Frankeh]

ScarJo's career was definitely not launched by MCU. She had done many popular movies by that point. She had worked with Sofia Coppola, Woody Allen, Brian de Palma and Christopher Nolan by that point. You could argue it made her more of a "leading star" when she did Lucy afterwards but even that is kinda flaky considering Ghost in the Shell was a flop.

Anyway, of course Sophie Turner said she would like to join Avengers. I'm not surprised!

 

[xrs13]

Get back on topic!! Sheeeesh. This is becoming tedious and this board is becoming a drag. Some news is needed soon because everyone is going around in circles!!

Anything from the comics that we would like to see in the film? A particular scene such as Jean sacrificing herself with a blast from an alien space ship? What is everyone keen to see?

 

[Jh7058622]

Yes I agree it's stupid to argue. Anyway yes. I want the scene were she confronted by her parents and she reads their deeper thoughts about her and just how afraid of her they are. I thought that was such a missed opportunity in X3.

Also trying to recruit Dazzler would be cool but unlikely.

 

[Cktopl33]

It's your holier-than-thou attitude that gets old. Being condescending and passive aggressive, especially when making assumptions about other people, is counter productive and off-putting.

Movies happen to be a passion of mine, so I know a great deal about the industry and how the process works. So "educating" me about filmmaking is not only unnecessary but laughable.

I wonder, though, do you happen to be on the spectrum? Because you seem to take things a bit too literally, and go off on unrelated, excessive digressions. I don't mean to offend, just genuinely curious.

Hmmm. Let's see. You claim to "know a great deal about the industry and how the process works". Yet....you view writing credit as a mere "quibble" (tell that to screenwriters) showing you don't understand the significance of the number of writers in creation of a screenplay or how these x-men movies scripts are commonly put together. Strange. You made it a point in the post, which I previously responded to, that Kinberg was the "sole writer" on Apocalypse. That is a false statement. There are multiple writers credited for Apocalypse. In order for them to get a credit on the movie.....they have to contribute a certain percentage to the final draft of the script. Kinberg's writing history has primarily been as a co-writer collaborator. If Kinberg was the ONLY writer (like he is on Dark Phoenix) THEN he would be accurately termed "sole writer". It seems you were merely pissed off that I corrected you and took a swipe at that in a followup post. Now it seems you are pissed that that someone would question your passionate so-called "knowledge of film-making" based on your questionable responses.

So, forgive me if you interpret that as "holier-than-thou attitude". I couldn't care less.


In other news, to get back on topic:

xrs13: Anything from the comics that we would like to see in the film? A particular scene such as Jean sacrificing herself with a blast from an alien space ship? What is everyone keen to see?

Keen to see how Jean's powers are visualized. How different will they look this time? And also the execution of action in general. The x-men films aren't known for well made action scenes since they always seem muted. They have 'showcase' sequences (like Quicksilver and Nightcrawler) but nothing like say the airport battle sequence in Civil War (parts of Days of Future Past came close). I want to see how Kinberg envisions an action sequence since that would all be up to the director and his chosen stunt/action team. I'm not expecting anything too close to the comics (adaptation isn't duplication), probably as close as Days of Future Past got with the comic version. However kinberg does seem to be recreating & merging (in a sense) the space shuttle sequence in the first part of the Phoenix saga so that would be interesting to see what becomes of it. That's likely one of the largest set pieces in the movie.

 

[SumT]

Oh GOD...this place

Anyway James McAvoy>>>>>>>>The rest Lol...

yes. oh, and....
Taylor Kitsch >>>>>>>>>>>>> this board

 

[Alison Blaire]

Ok, I just have to reply to this with this article:



Tye Sheridan is a great actor, I really like him. But people really need to stop trying to **** in everything related to Marvel Studios. Now even the actors. Gez.

Also, the point made about Anthony Mackie can be made about Daniel Cudmore, Famke Janssen, Alexandra Shipp, Lucas Till, Shawn Ashmore, Lana Condor and others...

Edit: Oh, by the way you can add Ben Mendelsohn, Jude Law, Annete Benning in that award list. And I'm not sure if they're counting other actors like Michelle Pfeiffer or Brie Larson who have been announced before but haven't appeared yet.

Famke?seriously?

Golden Eye,The Faculty(Robert Rodríguez),Celebrity(Woody Allen),Taken(Luc Beson),Hide an seek(Robert De Niro)Hemlock Grove(Eli Roth),Nip Tuck(Ryan Murphy)......

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Anything from the comics that we would like to see in the film?

Uncanny X-Men #136

 

[Avenging Angel]

Oh GOD...this place

Anyway James McAvoy>>>>>>>>The rest Lol...

Define "the rest"?

 

[EnDz0n3]

I do think Kinberg will try to pull off something similar. Like I said there’s a number of ways Kinberg can win over fans and the easiest way is to copy and paste certain iconography from the comics, especially compared to a previous film incarnation that refused to use them.

It’s easy to see that it won’t be with those costumes though and they certainly have to hide the nudity in that shot. Perhaps with Xavier’s blanket.

 

[xrs13]

One thing I’m somewhat gutted about is the fact we don’t have a heavy hitter on the team to show the brute strength of the Phoenix. I remember in the cartoon when she turned the tree to gold and pretty much threw Gladiator away like he was nothing.

We don’t have anyone that could take that beating on the team.

I do think Hans Zimmers music will be very dramatic at the finale though which should be good.

 

[Elayis]

Hmmm. Let's see. You claim to "know a great deal about the industry and how the process works". Yet....you view writing credit as a mere "quibble" (tell that to screenwriters) showing you don't understand the significance of the number of writers in creation of a screenplay or how these x-men movies scripts are commonly put together. Strange. You made it a point in the post, which I previously responded to, that Kinberg was the "sole writer" on Apocalypse. That is a false statement. There are multiple writers credited for Apocalypse. In order for them to get a credit on the movie.....they have to contribute a certain percentage to the final draft of the script. Kinberg's writing history has primarily been as a co-writer collaborator. If Kinberg was the ONLY writer (like he is on Dark Phoenix) THEN he would be accurately termed "sole writer". It seems you were merely pissed off that I corrected you and took a swipe at that in a followup post. Now it seems you are pissed that that someone would question your passionate so-called "knowledge of film-making" based on your questionable responses.

So, forgive me if you interpret that as "holier-than-thou attitude". I couldn't care less.

How are responses like this conducive to a productive conversation? I have no interest in squabbling, so if that's all you're after I'll refrain from replying to you in the future. I'm nearly tempted to put you on my ignore list, something I've never done before.

But to get back on topic, there's a big difference between a story and a screenplay credit. Other people may have had a hand in plotting out the film, but it was Kinberg who put pen to paper and was responsible for what the characters said and did in DoFP and Apocalypse. One of my biggest gripes with Kinberg is his dialogue, which someone with a story credit would have no involvement in.

To me, only people with a screenplay credit are the real writers of a film, which is what I was referring to. There can sometimes be years between the plotting of a film and it being actualized in a screenplay, and the "story" writers might not have any involvement with the final shooting draft. As far as I know, Dougherty and Harris were only involved during pre production, so I imagine the initial outline they contributed to was much less detailed and thought out than what ended up being shot and edited.

I'm willing to cut Kinberg some slack as his screenplays have never been directed by someone genuinely talented (Singer was only ever adequate as a director), but his ghost directing work for F4 and X:A did not inspire confidence. And like I said before it's worrying that he chose a mega budget film as his directorial debut, as I can't remember such an occurrence ever turning out well.

Anyways, wake me when there's some actual news to discuss and not this useless and tiresome bickering.

 

[1627523]

ScarJo's career was definitely not launched by MCU. She had done many popular movies by that point. She had worked with Sofia Coppola, Woody Allen, Brian de Palma and Christopher Nolan by that point. You could argue it made her more of a "leading star" when she did Lucy afterwards but even that is kinda flaky considering Ghost in the Shell was a flop.

Anyway, of course Sophie Turner said she would like to join Avengers. I'm not surprised!

cool I didn't know that about Scarjo. I stand corrected. I just remember people being skeptical about her when she was cast Black Widow back in Iron Man 2. A lot of people were not excited about her casting. you can find it on the hype forums.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Uncanny X-Men #136

By the way, in XMA we see a similar scene but it was deleted from the movie. Saved for Dark Phoenix?

 

[EnDz0n3]

cool I didn't know that about Scarjo. I stand corrected. I just remember people being skeptical about her when she was cast Black Widow back in Iron Man 2. A lot of people were not excited about her casting. you can find it on the hype forums.

That’s true with most casting. Did you really think people were happy with McKellen? Jackman? Paquin? Maguire? Berry? Norton? Etc?

 

[Elayis]

Why would you ask someone that are you on the spectrum because asking inappropriate questions in the wrong settings is also a common in that group? Oh wait, that is probably none of my damn business?

I'm not sure I get your exact point, but if you're asking how is it any of my business whether someone is autistic, I just thought it might make conversing easier. I might phrase things differently or try to be as unambiguous as possible to avoid confusion and unnecessary tangents that only frustrate everyone involved.

 

[Drexelhand]

That’s true with most casting. Did you really think people were happy with McKellen? Jackman? Paquin? Maguire? Berry? Norton? Etc?

McKellen? Yes. Jackman? No.

 

[Cktopl33]

How are responses like this conducive to a productive conversation? I have no interest in squabbling, so if that's all you're after I'll refrain from replying to you in the future.

Then take your own advise. I answered your question and responded in kind to your own squabbling.

there's a big difference between a story and a screenplay credit.

Yeah, formatting. Story is part of the screenplay. There were a lot of big gripes than just dialogue with that movie and story was one of them.

To me, only people with a screenplay credit are the real writers of a film

What matters to you doesn't make it part of reality. (This part is hopefully meant to be informative if not to you then others interested). STORY BY: The writer created the story (i.e., the plot, theme, main characters, etc.) SCREENPLAY BY: The writer wrote the screenplay based on someone else’s concept. A co-writing arrangement is a partnership, in legal as well as social sense. Every writer who has a story credit has contribution to the final draft. If they don't meet a certain percentage in contribution, then they aren't eligible for credit. There were other writers on these movies who didn't get a writing credit because what they wrote didn't contribute enough to the final draft. A screenwriter who writes the shooting draft doesn't mean they created the bulk of the story unless they are the only writer with both story and screenplay credit usually shown as WRITTEN BY. Many screenwriters in the industry often work as a team or in collaboration.

So if screenplay credits go into arbitration the WGA must try to determine these percentages, which is not done “by counting lines or even the number of pages to which a writer has contributed.” Instead:Arbiters must take into consideration the following elements in determining whether a writer is entitled to screenplay credit: dramatic construction; original and different scenes; characterization or character relationships; and dialogue.

There's also a difference between a script and the way it ends up on screen. Even Oscar winning scripts take feedback and do rewrites:

Kumail nominated for best original screenplay: "We’d been writing for a couple years already and we thought we had the script at a point where we really liked it and then we had a meeting with Judd Apatow and Barry Mendel, our producers, and we went into this meeting thinking they were like ‘okay we wanna make this movie’ and instead we got so many notes. So many big, big notes. The meeting was four hours. We thought it was going to be much shorter, and I remember after the meeting, Emily and I walked completely silently to the car and didn’t say anything the entire drive home.

Screenwriters are also often ask (common in the industry) to do revisions based on studio or director notes (not their own) until satisfied as the script head further into production. So Singer and the Fox executives, not solely Kinberg, would likely be the culprit for any changes in script during production. Screenwriters don't usually control that since the directors are the ones shooting and editing and the studio is providing the funding. However, they all would be working in collaboration. Studios often bring in or keep on hand screenwriters during production to make the needed revisions or changes as requested. Directors are the ones you should be focusing on instead the screenwriters. The reason: because both the studio and director tend to control the content of script revisions and/or script changes that alter the final product of the film. The final film is not the screenwriter's vision.

As one writer said:

Once it gets this far, and the movie goes into production, if the writer is not directing, then the writer is in all probability either just a very important guest on set, relegated to the sensitive and nuanced interactions with an equally sensitive and receptive director or the writer is totally absent from the scene. Being on set, not directing, doing something else in the production as a professional, after having co-written the screenplay - now that is a special kind of torture. One gets used to it. It’s all part of the screenwriter’s story! The low station of the screenwriter on the pecking order of a production team and the relative unimportance of rhetorical dazzle are enough to chase many writers, particularly fiction writers, away from screenwriting. In other forms of writing, the text is always in the writer's control. In screenwriting, this is only the case when the screenwriter directs his or her own movie. In fact, a writer can get fired from the team developing his own script, and such firings are not unusual. Executives, directors, and primary actors all outrank screenwriters and can suggest script changes. A screenwriter who doesn't make them gets fired.

This is likely why Kinberg built a career as a collaborator. It helped him get a directing position. kinberg's contribution is at least 33% of the script due to the writing credit he has. But he didn't control the full script. Add the other writers attached to the film and then ultimately studio executives and the director who has full say in what to put into the script....and you get a sense of how the screenplays for these specific films are put together.

Just to make the point with real industry info (statements from screenwriters in the industry):

The director always changes parts of the screenplay. This may sound rough on the screenwriter, and it can be, but there's no getting around the fact that a screenplay is an abstract document written (usually) before the movie is cast and locations are decided and a schedule is made, whereas a movie is a real thing in the real world and the real world dictates that things have to change.

In his book How Not to Write a Screenplay, author Denny Martin Flinn makes it clear, the screenplay is often being rewritten even on the day of shooting. He also recommends don't even bother mentioning in the script this or that actor supposedly "perfect" for the part, because none of that will come to pass anyway. The book was about screenplay writing and not so much what happens after the fact, but the general impression the reader walks away with is that the script is very often just the start of the movie-making process

Kinberg has producing experience on mega budget films (including the x-men) to which a lot of first time directors don't have so he doesn't seem daunted by the scale.

I don't accept 'ghostdirecting' rumor claims since there were crew on set to show whatever shot was made by second unit directors. Those claims just seem like a herd mentality snipes to detract from the responsibilities of the actual director.

 

[EnDz0n3]

McKellen? Yes. Jackman? No.

Until you can provide a link from 1999 showing McKellen’s X-men casting announcement that shows fans’ reactions like so or like so, then I just think you’re disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing (similar to your “You shut yo mouth” trolling from before).

Yes most of us got our geek info from sites like Harry Knowles’ AintItCoolNews. I wish Corona’s Coming Attractions was still around otherwise I would’ve gladly linked to that site instead.

 

[JP]

By the way, in XMA we see a similar scene but it was deleted from the movie. Saved for Dark Phoenix?

Probably cause Ottman realized in the cutting room that it makes zero ****ing sense for Scott to do this without getting noticed by the people they're hiding from!!!


#Kinberg