Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[Moridin]

Except Kevin Feige likes DOFP which he did the screenplay for. And knows that X3 wasn’t really his or Zak Penn’s fault considering he hired Zenn for Hulk and The Avengers. He was involved with X3 after all.

Also, Kinberg didn’t direct F4. He just wrote the screenplay Trank wanted.

Early on when Marvel Studios were just starting out they struggled to find people to work with them. Yes they hired Penn to draft TIH & Avengers. The TIH script was then re-written by Norton when he signed on. Penn's Avengers script was junked by Whedon when he signed on. Penn hasn't worked with Marvel since.



I really don't know why people are fighting this so hard. X-Men & F4 will be rebooted when they join the MCU. New casts, new filmmakers. Some Fox producers might survive, like Donner, but that's about it. Kinberg will be nowhere near writing nor directing duties.

 

[Saitou Hajime]

Fox's best performing and most profitable X-Men instalment is Deadpool, a film the studio didn't even want made for many years, with a VFX studio boss as the director - and doing better than other directors because he understands the material!

It's also a comedy, something Marvel is frequently mocked for.

 

[Drexelhand]

I really don't know why people are fighting this so hard. X-Men & F4 will be rebooted when they join the MCU. New casts, new filmmakers. Some Fox producers might survive, like Donner, but that's about it. Kinberg will be nowhere near writing nor directing duties.

Because some people don't want one of their favourite movie series to end? What's hard to understand about that?

 

[Marvel united]

Because some people don't want one of their favourite movie series to end? What's hard to understand about that?

So I guess the solution is to remain in denial about the whole thing. Ignore all the signs about what will probably happen ("Hollywood Reporter isnt always right" etc) grasp at straws (Feige keeping Kinberg because he liked DOFP, SOME random guy hoping for Exiles somehow meaning Fox-Men will come to the MCU etc), trying to find the tiniest connections between Fox-Men and the MCU that aren't relevant (Zack Pen being hired to write initial treatments for early MCU films) or downright saying things that aren't true like Kinberg having nothing to do with FFINO even though he completely rewrote Trank's script and ghost directed the reshoots.

 

[Big Bang]

Because some people don't want one of their favourite movie series to end? What's hard to understand about that?

It's over. The properties are getting folded into the MCU, where they belong. Best not to waste any more energy trying to fight it. It's going to happen. Bob Iger openly said as much.

The sooner that reality is accepted, the better.

 

[conan69]

I said this awhile ago....
By the time we heard about all this, Id bet real money Marvel and Disney were already developing FF and X-Men. Theyre futher along in development than any of us know.
MCU getting FF and X-Men = a mountain of cash.

People were saying they were expecting Phase 4 to be less interesting with characters like Ms Marvel, Black Panther, Dr Strange, well hello new P4.

Renewing some very costly contracts might not be so important with the new properties theyve acquired. Bringing Downey back for a couple films will prob cost 2x a entirely new Xmen cast.


IMHO the only reason XMen DP even continued production was because theyd spent already invested and spent money on it.

Look at the competition for release. This will be released an swept under the carpet and no one will care.... waiting for MCUs version.

 

[psylockolussus]

The funny thing is that I think he already has a relationship with Disney already. I do believe he is in on one of the future Star Wars projects.

Meanwhile, kids on the internet at SHH will be kids on the internet.

And why isn't he directing the next Star Wars trilogy or at least writing episode ix if his relationship with Disney is so great? Well Disney is better with quality control with their films than fox.

And that's really condescending of you how you label posters here as "kids". Unlike you, most members here (the ones who've been posting a lot longer than you) are adults and not in elementary school.

 

[sleekstereo]

You are free to your opinion, but at which point is it beating a dead horse?

I understand your perspective, but the reality is Marvel (not Disney) and Feige will be producing these films within the MCU proper. That is guaranteed, Iger stated it in the PR after the deal was announced.

My only suggestion was making life easier on yourself by either excepting that reality or moving on to greener pastures. That's what I did with the Sony Spider-Man movies. Unless you want to constantly be disappointed.

It's not my intention to sound harsh or rude on this topic, but that's what is coming in the future. You seem to have written off the X-Men at Marvel, so I don't know what else to say? Many people are excited at the prospects, sorry you aren't.

First of all, I don't care of Marvel is making X-Men films or Fox is making X-Men films, as long as there are X-Men films, I'm good.

Also, I'm fully aware that the X-Men will be joining the MCU. You are right, that has been made clear.

What has not been made clear is how and when they are joining the MCU. It could be a reboot. It could be combining universes. Or it could be keeping the universe separate but they are still linked through the multi-universe.

I was providing possibilities. Because at this point, we don't know how it is going to happen.

 

[sleekstereo]

X-Men should only be left alone only if it isn't under Fox and Kinberg.

And Iger has already stated that the MCU would use the X-Men. But once again, sleekstereo has find another reason to ignore that.

I didn't ignore anything.

You know X-Men can still be part of the MCU without actually interacting with MCU proper universe?

People got all excited about Marvel introducing the concept of different universes, but when someone just speculates that that X-Men may be part of a multi-universe. That is shut down. Do people know that will still mean they are part of the MCU right?

I want X-Men films. I don't care of Marvel is making them or if Fox is making them. As long as they are quality films, let them roll them out.

 

[Marvel united]

I didn't ignore anything.

You know X-Men can still be part of the MCU without actually interacting with MCU proper universe?

People got all excited about Marvel introducing the concept of different universes, but when someone just speculates that that X-Men may be part of a multi-universe. That is shut down. Do people know that will still mean they are part of the MCU right?

I want X-Men films. I don't care of Marvel is making them or if Fox is making them. As long as they are quality films, let them roll them out.

Common sense would tell anybody that Iger obviously means the X-Men interacting with the wider MCU. And the Multiverse is such a stupid, convoluted way of bringing the X-Men into the MCU. It makes wayyy more sense that they're introduced into the MCU proper. The Multiverse stuff is suited for bringing in characters that would actually benefit from that being their point of origin.

 

[psylockolussus]

Because some people don't want one of their favourite movie series to end? What's hard to understand about that?

denial and twist words and facts aren't easy to understand.

 

[psylockolussus]

I didn't ignore anything.

You know X-Men can still be part of the MCU without actually interacting with MCU proper universe?

People got all excited about Marvel introducing the concept of different universes, but when someone just speculates that that X-Men may be part of a multi-universe. That is shut down. Do people know that will still mean they are part of the MCU right?

I want X-Men films. I don't care of Marvel is making them or if Fox is making them. As long as they are quality films, let them roll them out.

I just haven't seen one post from yours, that you think of pros of the possibility of the X-Men coexisting with the mcu. Its always negative, and you keep making excuses. When Fox's shortcomings made it clear why the X-Men would thrive under the mcu. You Even said you would rather have Jeff Loeb oversee and not Feige. If you aren't anti MCU or anti Feige, then I don't know what it is. Come 2020, you'd still be saying the same things.

And no way, X-Men wouldn't show up with the other Marvel heroes. Disney likes money too. You know.

 

[sleekstereo]

Common sense would tell anybody that Iger obviously means the X-Men interacting with the wider MCU. And the Multiverse is such a stupid, convoluted way of bringing the X-Men into the MCU. It makes wayyy more sense that they're introduced into the MCU proper. The Multiverse stuff is suited for bringing in characters that would actually benefit from that being their point of origin.

They can still interact with the wider MCU while still being part of the multi-verse. The comics do it all the time. Hell, The Flash, Green Arrow, etc. are doing it on television right now.

Supergirl and The Flash are in two separate universes and they meet up for large events. How will be bad if Marvel did the same for The Avengers and X-Men characters? Especially when the X-Men have always worked better in their own storyline universe in the comics?

It is also easier to explain why mutants have not shown up in MCU proper and Marvel can avoid history issues there.

I'm not saying this will happen. I'm saying a full on reboot will happen. What I am saying is that there are different possibilities on how this can happen.

 

[psylockolussus]

This is what you said.

X-Men can still be part of the MCU without actually interacting with MCU proper universe?

As for multi verse, I am completely fine with it. Idont need the Avengers in a supporting role in a X-Men ensemble film.

 

[sleekstereo]

I just haven't seen one post from yours, that you think of pros of the possibility of the X-Men coexisting with the mcu. Its always negative, and you keep making excuses. When Fox's shortcomings made it clear why the X-Men would thrive under the mcu. You Even said you would rather have Jeff Loeb oversee and not Feige. If you aren't anti MCU or anti Feige, then I don't know what it is. Come 2020, you'd still be saying the same things.

And no way, X-Men wouldn't show up with the other Marvel heroes. Disney likes money too. You know.

And you provided that same courtesy to the people on this board? From the posts I've seen, you've been pretty negative on everything Fox-related and have been stomping on any possibilities that the universe that other fans enjoy can somehow survive. So don't come at me with the negativity argument when you've done way more than I have when it comes to bashing this current version of the X-Men.

I've never excused Fox shortcoming. I hated the Last Stand (almost walked out) and X-Men: Origins, and was disappointed by XMA, but Fox's other X-Men films are all good in my book.

I don't know how the X-Men will thrive under the MCU. I can't see into the future and I'm taking a wait and see approach. I do have concerns about the MCU based on the direction they've taken with their other films and how they will deal with the X-Men and the social aspects. After I see Black Panther, those concerns may disappear.

I'm not anti-MCU or anti-Feige, I'm just not an MCU fanboy. Just like I don't buy everything Fox or DC produces, I don't buy everything MCU produces. I don't look over their shortcoming. I disagree with their directions for certain films and characters. As a whole, the MCU is great. I enjoyed the majority of their films, but I don't love everything.

And on the Jeff Loeb suggestion, I recommended him because he is not fearful of pushing the limits and handle sensitive topics that Feige seems to be afraid to address. Which makes sense, Feige makes family films, Loeb has way more freedom on what he wants to make, which I believe suits the X-Men more.

 

[psylockolussus]

I am not negative about Deadpool 2, except for Domino's hideous look.

And your last paragraph shows that you are anti Feige. Loeb's track record in Marvel TV is much worse than Feige's track record in Marvel Studios.

 

[sleekstereo]

I am not negative about Deadpool 2, except for Domino's hideous look.

And your last paragraph shows that you are anti Feige. Loeb's track record in Marvel TV is much worse than Feige's track record in Marvel Studios.

I'm not going to go back and forth to prove if I'm anti-Feige or not, that's a waste of time. All I can say is that I am not.

As for Loeb, I can fully admit he has some stinkers (Iron Fist, Inhumans, Agents of Shield (yes, I don't like it)), but other than that, he has been pretty dead on.

Daredevil Season Two is still my favorite thing that Marvel has put out so far. Punisher right behind it.

But you know, it's all about taste. I like the darker, edgier stuff.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

I like X-Men, and I like the idea of them becoming part of the MCU. Movies like Winter Soldier and Civil War have laid the groundwork for mutants to be hated and feared in the MCU far more than they are in the movies FOX has been making lately.

Dark Phoenix is going to have the X-Men as national heroes and Xavier being on the cover of Time Magazine. Why would you be afraid of Disney not staying true to the social aspects of the X-Men property when FOX clearly gave up on those after DOFP?

I am not a fan of the multi-verse idea at all. Makes any crossover convoluted and requiring inter-dimensional travel. Seems like too much of a hassle when you can just have the X-Men in the same universe as the rest of the MCU.

 

[psylockolussus]

I'm not going to go back and forth to prove if I'm anti-Feige or not, that's a waste of time. All I can say is that I am not.

As for Loeb, I can fully admit he has some stinkers (Iron Fist, Inhumans, Agents of Shield (yes, I don't like it)), but other than that, he has been pretty dead on.

Daredevil Season Two is still my favorite thing that Marvel has put out so far. Punisher right behind it.

But you know, it's all about taste. I like the darker, edgier stuff.

Jeff Loeb is as a yes man as Kinberg to Marvel Fox films, he's producing. He doesn't operate like Feige.

 

[Drexelhand]

denial and twist words and facts aren't easy to understand.

Okie dokie Chi Chi.

So I guess the solution is to remain in denial about the whole thing. Ignore all the signs about what will probably happen ("Hollywood Reporter isnt always right" etc) grasp at straws (Feige keeping Kinberg because he liked DOFP, SOME random guy hoping for Exiles somehow meaning Fox-Men will come to the MCU etc), trying to find the tiniest connections between Fox-Men and the MCU that aren't relevant (Zack Pen being hired to write initial treatments for early MCU films) or downright saying things that aren't true like Kinberg having nothing to do with FFINO even though he completely rewrote Trank's script and ghost directed the reshoots.

I really don't know what you're talking about, but people aren't allowed to be pissy when something they don't like happens? Go to Reddit about The Last Jedi, I don't really want to get into a debate about that film but the fact of the matter is a lot of people didn't like some choices in it. So what, is it wrong for them to vent even if they may be wrong about some things? If a reboot is coming, then it's coming. If Kinberg is involved due to his working relationship with Iger and LSD's mentorship of Feige, then he's involved. What's so wrong other than having to put up with a billion psylockossus posts acting like they know Feige personally?

It's over. The properties are getting folded into the MCU, where they belong. Best not to waste any more energy trying to fight it. It's going to happen. Bob Iger openly said as much.

The sooner that reality is accepted, the better.

I really hope you ain't a counsellor.

"My mom died."

"It's over. Your mother is getting folded into the afterlife, where she belongs. Best not waste any more energy trying to fight it. It's going to happen. The cardiologist openly said as much. The sooner that reality is accepted, the better."

That being said, yes, I know a bunch of films being rebooted aren't analogous to a mother with a terminal heart disease.

 

[Cktopl33]

You are talking UTTER rubbish!

Kinberg was brought on board to get F4 back on track. He rewrote the script to get it within budget and then ghost-directed reshoots. Everything after the One Year Later title card, when characters suddenly behave differently and Invisible Woman has a very visible bad wig, was written and directed by Kinberg.

This whole blame Kinberg game for F4 has gotten old. Never mind the two main culprits: Josh Trank and Fox Studios. Kinberg didn't direct the movie. He didn't have absolute control over the movie. Everybody keeps ignoring Trank's erratic and unprofessional behavior on set witnessed by cast and crew that got him essentially blacklisted.

“During takes, he would be telling [castmembers] when to blink and when to breathe,” one person says. “He kept pushing them to make the performance as flat as possible. Many other sources claimed that there was "erratic behavior" from Trank on the set of the film, which resulted in Fox's negative treatment of Trank."

Kinberg rewrote the script at the STUDIO's insistence:

After being unsatisfied with Trank's original cut, Fox ordered their own changes to the film without Trank's supervision, changing and omitting certain major plot points from Trank's version.

A crewmember acknowledges that Trank bears much of the fault for the film’s problems but also says the Fox studio should not escape blame. The movie was “ill-conceived, made for the wrong reasons and there was no vision behind the property,” this person says. “Say what you will about Marvel but they have a vision.”
As Fox hurried to put the project into production before rights to the material reverted to Marvel, the studio was scrambling with multiple rewrites and delays in starting the film. They “were afraid of losing the rights so they pressed forward and didn’t surround [Trank] with help or fire him. They buried their heads in the sand.” Fox declined to comment.
​

People think Kinberg "ghost-directed" the film is ridiculous:

With some of the cast not fully available at that point and [producer Simon] Kinberg juggling X-Men: Apocalypse and Star Wars, a lot of material was shot with doubles and the production moved to Los Angeles to film scenes with Teller against a green screen. “It was chaos,” says a crew member, adding that Trank was still in attendance “but was neutralized by a committee. Eventually they had to bring in World War Z scribe Drew Goddard to salvage what was left of this mess.”

 

[Big Bang]

I really hope you ain't a counsellor.

"My mom died."

"It's over. Your mother is getting folded into the afterlife, where she belongs. Best not waste any more energy trying to fight it. It's going to happen. The cardiologist openly said as much. The sooner that reality is accepted, the better."

Seriously? You are equating the end of half-baked movie franchise with death?

That being said, yes, I know a bunch of films being rebooted aren't analogous to a mother with a terminal heart disease.

Then why even make the comparison?

Just wow. Some people are just not well adjusted individuals.

 

[X-Maniac]

This whole blame Kinberg game for F4 has gotten old. Never mind the two main culprits: Josh Trank and Fox Studios. Kinberg didn't direct the movie. He didn't have absolute control over the movie. Everybody keeps ignoring Trank's erratic and unprofessional behavior on set witnessed by cast and crew that got him essentially blacklisted.



Kinberg rewrote the script at the STUDIO's insistence:





People think Kinberg "ghost-directed" the film is ridiculous:

LOL... The denial is strong with this one.

You sound just like that contrarian on here who kept arguing that Kinberg didn't ghost-direct any of X-Men: Apocalypse when Singer went AWOL.... until the Hollywood Reporter confirmed it.

Some of us here have contacts and connections on these films and we know full well what goes on.

I'm sure Kinberg and his reps want to distance him from the failure of F4 (perhaps to give him greater chance of staying involved with F4 and X-Men when they go across to Disney) but while he may have brought it in under budget, he didn't improve it and the earlier screenplays with Galactus etc sound much better.

Yes, Trank and Fox are also to blame for much of the mess. But sorry not sorry, Kinberg DID ghost-direct the reshoots of F4.

True fans of the F4 and X-Men are ready for something new. It seems to me that it's only those linked to Fox who are getting so upset about the Disney takeover.

Let's see what is done with Dark Phoenix. Will it crap all over the mythos as much as X-Men: Apocalypse?

 

[Charzhin0]

I like X-Men, and I like the idea of them becoming part of the MCU. Movies like Winter Soldier and Civil War have laid the groundwork for mutants to be hated and feared in the MCU far more than they are in the movies FOX has been making lately.

Dark Phoenix is going to have the X-Men as national heroes and Xavier being on the cover of Time Magazine. Why would you be afraid of Disney not staying true to the social aspects of the X-Men property when FOX clearly gave up on those after DOFP?

Theyv not given up on the social aspects, theyve just toned it down so it isnt the main story in every film which can get repetitive. X1, X2, First Class and DOFP all did a great job is displaying the human-mutant conflict/hatred. Not sure why you think Civil War will make this concept better than Fox has shown us given that the basic premise that people fear the Avengers is silly since theyve saved the world in the first film.

In Apocalypse, Logan and now Dark Phoneix the focus is on other adventures/challenges in Xmen and the human-mutant conflict is toned down but still present in the backgrounds just like the comics.

 

[psylockolussus]

True fans of the F4 and X-Men are ready for something new. It seems to me that it's only those linked to Fox who are getting so upset about the Disney takeover.

I am a big fan of those and I am ready.

Though I doubt people like Ordet, Hand Banana, Phoenix Egg and purplevit are linked to Fox. Some just have different taste in a way that Transformers film fans still have supporters left.