Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[Flint Marko]

And just one more thing, Fox is no "lone bastion." Wonder Woman was a great achievement,

I had a fair amount to say in response to your post but this right here stopped me cold.

Wonder Woman is a great achievement for a variety of reasons, but to ostensibly list it as an exceptionally creative comic book film that stands in contrast from the rest of the pack is flat out absurd. As much as I like Wonder Woman, it was a by-the-numbers origin film that devolved into CG-nonsense against a completely unremarkable villain, just like any other superhero film we've seen before.

But hey, it wasn't made by Marvel Studios so clearly it fits your criteria.

 

[psylockolussus]

I had a fair amount to say in response to your post but this right here stopped me cold.

Wonder Woman is a great achievement for a variety of reasons, but to ostensibly list it as an exceptionally creative comic book film that stands in contrast from the rest of the pack is flat out absurd. As much as I like Wonder Woman, it was a by-the-numbers origin film that devolved into CG-nonsense against a completely unremarkable villain, just like any other superhero film we've seen before.

But hey, it wasn't made by Marvel Studios so clearly it fits your criteria.

Love Wonder Woman best CBM of 2017 for me!

I totally agree with your last statement.

 

[Kuwolski]

There you go Feige, the bar keeps moving, Wonder Women is now the measuring stick..bleh.

 

[DACrowe]

I had a fair amount to say in response to your post but this right here stopped me cold.

Wonder Woman is a great achievement for a variety of reasons, but to ostensibly list it as an exceptionally creative comic book film that stands in contrast from the rest of the pack is flat out absurd. As much as I like Wonder Woman, it was a by-the-numbers origin film that devolved into CG-nonsense against a completely unremarkable villain, just like any other superhero film we've seen before.

But hey, it wasn't made by Marvel Studios so clearly it fits your criteria.

Because I do nothing but rave about BvS, Suicide Squad, Justice League, Man of Steel, TASM movies, and FF'15.

Wonder Woman is a classical superhero movie in the vein of old Hollywood war melodramas and, yes, Dick Donner's Superman movie. It also goes about it with more grandeur, and well, wonder than anyone since the days of Nolan and Raimi. But instead of writing paragraphs as to why, I think Patty Jenkins summed up the difference between her approach to the genre and much of the industry from this interview she gave to NYT:

Patty Jenkins: Did you say cheesy? Cheesy is one of the words banned in my world. I’m tired of sincerity being something we have to be afraid of doing. It’s been like that for 20 years, that the entertainment and art world has shied away from sincerity, real sincerity, because they feel they have to wink at the audience because that’s what the kids like. We have to do the real stories now. The world is in crisis.

I wanted to tell a story about a hero who believes in love, who is filled with love, who believes in change and the betterment of mankind. I believe in it. It’s terrible when it makes so many artists afraid to be sincere and truthful and emotional, and relegates them to the too-cool-for-school department. Art is supposed to bring beauty to the world.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Cannot wait for the teaser!

 

[Zant]

Seriously now, Apocalypse attempted to be a more "MCU" movie and tried to be more fun and funny. Nothing really worked for me. Kurt was the only fun part that worked and mostly because of the actor. The rest felt super forced and unnatural. The same with the drama. Despite how good Fassbender is, his drama felt very forced to me. It was like "ok, let's have these two female characters to kill off and be the reason of his man pain".

Apocalypse and Justice league attempting to be more like the MCU did not work out too well. Its a valuable lesson that variety is needed in the CBM genre. We don't need every CBM to be MCU-like. A healthy balance is needed.

 

[Davidstorm]

I am a few days in this forum
but from what I've seen, would not it be better to create a "why do I hate fox" topic?
and leave this here to discuss news and rumors about Dark phoenix

 

[Frankeh]

Wonder Woman is a classical superhero movie in the vein of old Hollywood war melodramas and, yes, Dick Donner's Superman movie. It also goes about it with more grandeur, and well, wonder than anyone since the days of Nolan and Raimi. But instead of writing paragraphs as to why, I think Patty Jenkins summed up the difference between her approach to the genre and much of the industry from this interview she gave to NYT:

That's all well and good but as much as I love WW it doesn't change that as Flint Marko said the villains are unremarkable and the third act devolves into CG fighting against the bad guy which is a constant anti-MCU criticism... Flint Marko couldn't be more right.

 

[psylockolussus]

Cannot wait for the teaser!

It might come out in April in time for the release of The New Mutants. Or May or June in time for Deadpool 2's release.

 

[Frankeh]

You need to understand that our concept of quality is having supporting characters that we can actually call characters. Having supporting characters with a unique voice, a personality, arc, motivations... It gets worse when you realize the X-Men is supposed to be an ensemble movie. Civil War is a Captain America solo movie and it does a much better job being an ensemble than any X-Men movie.

Wanting faithfulness is absolutely also a matter of wanting a quality film... All Fantastic Four films so far would've been better if they just stopped trying to change the property, and respected the tone, characterization, and villains (boy did they mess these up).

 

[psylockolussus]

I can't wait for the Marvel Studios version of the Fantastic Four!

 

[Kuwolski]

That's all well and good but as much as I love WW it doesn't change that as Flint Marko said the villains are unremarkable and the third act devolves into CG fighting against the bad guy which is a constant anti-MCU criticism... Flint Marko couldn't be more right.

The action in MCU films is far better as well. Jenkins may want to save the world with sincerity (one foot soldier at a time), but hopefully she'll learn how to direct a climactic action scene. The third act in that film almost ruined it for me. It was a good film (7.5), nothing more, possibly less. But it made all of Patty's foot soldiers politically happy, so damn to hell all those who can't see it for what it is, a masterpiece.

 

[Link]

So any news about the film, or just the same old same old?

 

[SumT]

word is that Dark Phoenix may be the first cbm to be nominated for best director at the Oscars next year

 

[Link]

So, the same old then. Shocker.

 

[Kuwolski]

I am curious about the budget for this film. I think it'll be more then 180 m.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

They had to sign Fassbinder and Lawrence to expensive one off deals to come back so I am sure that will eat up a big portion of the budget.

 

[def28]

I am curious about the budget for this film. I think it'll be more then 180 m.

Considering how much Apocalypse made that would be a risk.

 

[Kuwolski]

Considering how much Apocalypse made that would be a risk.

True, I assumed they would try to push it a bit more considering the storyline, but you're probably right.

I know Apocalypse cost roughly 180 m.

 

[Frankeh]

Kinberg had to take a pay cut to direct so I wouldn't expect a huge budget

 

[def28]

True, I assumed they would try to push it a bit more considering the storyline, but you're probably right.

I know Apocalypse cost roughly 180 m.

Yeah, I expect right around there. Since they have a lot of time for post VFX that should help.

 

[Davidstorm]

looking at the signings that they made for the film, whether of actors or of the production team
I bet it will be 190m

 

[DACrowe]

That's all well and good but as much as I love WW it doesn't change that as Flint Marko said the villains are unremarkable and the third act devolves into CG fighting against the bad guy which is a constant anti-MCU criticism... Flint Marko couldn't be more right.

If that was true, it wouldn't have taken off in the cultural imagination like it has, nor would it have the best box office legs of any superhero movie since Spider-Man in 2002. There is nothing generic or unremarkable about its reception, because it strikes a chord most summer movies don't, which is yes in part because it is about Wonder Woman, a female superhero, but it is also how it is [about] her that was so refreshing.

It has a flawed third act (although not nearly as much as some make it out to be), but the things it does right are so exceptional that it stands head and shoulders above most in the genre. So yes I consider it as one of the better ones ever made.

 

[Kuwolski]

If that was true, it wouldn't have taken off in the cultural imagination like it has, nor would it have the best box office legs of any superhero movie since Spider-Man in 2002. There is nothing generic or unremarkable about its reception, because it strikes a chord most summer movies don't, which is yes in part because it is about Wonder Woman, a female superhero, but it is also how it is [about] her that was so refreshing.

It has a flawed third act (although not nearly as much as some make it out to be), but the things it does right are so exceptional that it stands head and shoulders above most in the genre. So yes I consider it as one of the better ones ever made.

Avatar had a 10 multiplier and I don't think it was anything special either. There were other factors that drove the box office numbers then simply being a great film. In that case the technological leap of the 3D experience. For WW, the first female led SH film in an extremely political/narrative based culture. The movie being good helped it, but both films are perfect examples of great timing and lightning in a bottle scenarios. But I feel that getting deeper into that discussion would lean more purely towards cultural semiotics then box office numbers. This isn't the forum for that. I'm happy you think it's great though. I won't rain on your parade. We'll agree to disagree about it's stature as a film.

 

[Erik Lensherr]

I can't wait for the Marvel Studios version of the Fantastic Four!

This is the DPh thread