Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - Part 8

[AndrewGilkison]

The main problem I have with the X-Franchise right now is that while Logan was awesome and the Deadpool movies are fresh and new and exciting, the core X-Men movies are lagging behind, and feel too disconnected from everything else (and strangely stuck in the early 2000's in many ways, even though the movies themselves are period pieces).

 

[Frankeh]

If that was true, it wouldn't have taken off in the cultural imagination like it has, nor would it have the best box office legs of any superhero movie since Spider-Man in 2002. There is nothing generic or unremarkable about its reception, because it strikes a chord most summer movies don't, which is yes in part because it is about Wonder Woman, a female superhero, but it is also how it is [about] her that was so refreshing.

It has a flawed third act (although not nearly as much as some make it out to be), but the things it does right are so exceptional that it stands head and shoulders above most in the genre. So yes I consider it as one of the better ones ever made.

I'm not arguing against WW's quality. But I do side-eye your exclusively Marvel criticisms when giving the movie a free pass for those villains and that third act.

And if you're going to use box office I can use reception, if your Marvel sameness arguments were true and the Fox experiments were head and shoulders above them, Thor: Ragnarok and Spider-Man Homecoming wouldn't be almost equally rated to Logan. Not to mention Transformers, a franchise actually suffering from sameness for years, actually took a blow in the box office with their latest installment, while Marvel is still going strong.

 

[1627523]

Apocalypse and Justice league attempting to be more like the MCU did not work out too well. Its a valuable lesson that variety is needed in the CBM genre. We don't need every CBM to be MCU-like. A healthy balance is needed.

I kind of disagree with with Apocalypse being an MCU movie. I think in some ways it was like one when they used the whole "end of the world" plot, but in some ways it wasnt, since i never really thought that the jokes in the movie really detracted from the drama or the plot at hand. Honestly
I think the FOX movies have always done a good job at balancing their humorous and serious moments more than any other comic book franchise. I'm not saying Apocalypse was good tho.

 

[1627523]

I'm not arguing against WW's quality. But I do side-eye your exclusively Marvel criticisms when giving the movie a free pass for those villains and that third act.

And if you're going to use box office I can use reception, if your Marvel sameness arguments were true and the Fox experiments were head and shoulders above them, Thor: Ragnarok and Spider-Man Homecoming wouldn't be almost equally rated to Logan. Not to mention Transformers, a franchise actually suffering from sameness for years, actually took a blow in the box office with their latest installment, while Marvel is still going strong.

Logan has avg rating of 7.9 on rotten tomatoes while THOR ragnarok has 7.5

 

[Phoenix Egg]

So, the same old then. Shocker.

Well now they are telling us about how there is nothing special about Wonder Woman (in an X-thread) because it's not by Disney. NEWNESS!

And no, not much in the way of news on Dark Phoenix. Probably won't get much for a few months more.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

To get back to Dark Phoenix, what are you hoping to see from the movie?

I am hoping that it earns Jean's arc. We haven't spent nearly enough time with Sophie as Jean and they are already rushing to Dark Phoenix, so they got a lot to do in such a short time. I hope it feels earned.

 

[Iceman]

You ideally want the relationship between Scott and Jean to be very strong before you start a DP film. I think by doing this straightaway there is a lot of unnecessary pressure on the writing and the performances of those 2 actors. I hope it is a really good DP story and told well enough that we don't need to see another DP story for a long time (which would also mean we get to keep and enjoy whoever is the next Jean without her having a death sentence always attached to her).

 

[Lip]

You ideally want the relationship between Scott and Jean to be very strong before you start a DP film.

Ideally you want Jean established as an individual too, and also as an important X-Men member. And her relationship with Charles and her friends are also important for that storyline. I think we might see some of that, but definitely not all.

I think they'll prioritize her relationship with Charles and then a bit of her relationship with Scott. We know they'll develop her relationship with Eric, that somehow will be strong enough so she can seek refuge under his roof.

But her relationship with the X-Men, her as an individual (before Phoenix), as an X-Men member... will be either neglected or nonexistent. And I don't have faith on her relationship with Scott in this movie.

 

[def28]

They won't have much time since they jumped into this storyline, but at the least hopefully they give history to it with the time that has passed.

I'm not arguing against WW's quality. But I do side-eye your exclusively Marvel criticisms when giving the movie a free pass for those villains and that third act.

And if you're going to use box office I can use reception, if your Marvel sameness arguments were true and the Fox experiments were head and shoulders above them, Thor: Ragnarok and Spider-Man Homecoming wouldn't be almost equally rated to Logan. Not to mention Transformers, a franchise actually suffering from sameness for years, actually took a blow in the box office with their latest installment, while Marvel is still going strong.

Pretty much this.

It's a pretty crazy notion, but every studio has made really good films and had good box office.

 

[The Guard]

Where is the idea that prior to Dark Phoenix, that mutants were celebrated and loved by humanity in this franchise coming from?

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Where is the idea that prior to Dark Phoenix, that mutants were celebrated and loved by humanity in this franchise coming from?

X-Men Apocalypse. In that movie Xavier even says he's thinking of letting humans into his school because things are going so well for mutants.

 

[Drexelhand]

X-Men Apocalypse. In that movie Xavier even says he's thinking of letting humans into his school because things are going so well for mutants.

X-Men: Apocalypse really perpetuated the idea that there was hatred against mutants still existed, but in a different way. Like how liberal racism (Guess Who's Coming to Dinner) is a thing. It didn't come off well because it was barely touched on, but the idea was there.

 

[BeholdMe]

The main problem I have with the X-Franchise right now is that while Logan was awesome and the Deadpool movies are fresh and new and exciting, the core X-Men movies are lagging behind, and feel too disconnected from everything else (and strangely stuck in the early 2000's in many ways, even though the movies themselves are period pieces).

I agree with all of this except the part about Logan since I never seen it I just heard a lot of good things about it. Everything else though I totally agree with that’s why I’m hoping for the best with DP even though either way the franchise will be changed and I have no problem either way.

 

[psylockolussus]

Kinberg had to take a pay cut to direct so I wouldn't expect a huge budget

I wouldn't be surprised if this costs lower than $150 million. Fox would be fooling themselves if they think this would perform better than Apocalypse. And probably considered that possibility. Fox is so generous to budgets unlike Disney/Wb. The New Mutants is already being done on the cheap. Probably cheaper than Deadpool and Logan.

The main problem I have with the X-Franchise right now is that while Logan was awesome and the Deadpool movies are fresh and new and exciting, the core X-Men movies are lagging behind, and feel too disconnected from everything else (and strangely stuck in the early 2000's in many ways, even though the movies themselves are period pieces).

The X-Men are literally stuck in the past and the fact that the Fox and company keep.ignoring that is just misguided.

 

[JJ Hall]

The way I see it, there are five major story beats in Jean's Dark Phoenix arc:

1. Starting in a happy life with friends, loving boyfriend, and fulfilling superhero career.

2. An unforeseen tragedy leaves her shaken and vulnerable. (Mystique's death, maybe?)

3. An opportunistic abuser exploits her vulnerability, hoping to control the Phoenix's power by controlling Jean. (Whatever name they give her, this is surely Jessica Chastain's villain.)

4. Jean shakes off the abuser's control, but the experience has given her a taste for indulging her dark side. She goes on a rampage, casually killing many. (Bye, Genosha.)

5. Her teammates manage to get through to her and reawaken Jean's mortal side. In horror at what she's done, Jean sacrifices herself* to stop the Phoenix from threatening the universe again.

If the film hits those beats, it might have a chance.

*Yes, Jean needs to die. They might do this the way the 90s cartoon did, with her resurrection happening like, a minute later**, but the film would be chopping its own legs off if it tried to do without Jean's death.

**That would also be a poor decision, of course, if not a crippling one. The proper time to resurrect Jean would be in a (more hypothetical now than it was during production) sequel.

 

[Charzhin0]

Dont think that Jean and Scott having an established relationship needs an additional filler movie inbetween. Lots of solo films that have strong male-female bonds are well developed in the first act of films if the writing and actors chemistry are good. Deadpool with Wade and Vanessa is a good recent example.

 

[Zant]

Dont think that Jean and Scott having an established relationship needs an additional filler movie inbetween. Lots of solo films that have strong male-female bonds are well developed in the first act of films if the writing and actors chemistry are good. Deadpool with Wade and Vanessa is a good recent example.

Wade and Vanessa got very intimate lol....although judging from that Scott-Jean pic, they won't be too far off. I hope she does not disintegrate Scott after kissing him this time.

 

[Iceman]

Ideally you want Jean established as an individual too, and also as an important X-Men member. And her relationship with Charles and her friends are also important for that storyline. I think we might see some of that, but definitely not all.

I think they'll prioritize her relationship with Charles and then a bit of her relationship with Scott. We know they'll develop her relationship with Eric, that somehow will be strong enough so she can seek refuge under his roof.

But her relationship with the X-Men, her as an individual (before Phoenix), as an X-Men member... will be either neglected or nonexistent. And I don't have faith on her relationship with Scott in this movie.

Agreed. Just hope they do it as well as possible.

 

[psylockolussus]

Wade and Vanessa got very intimate lol....although judging from that Scott-Jean pic, they won't be too far off. I hope she does not disintegrate Scott after kissing him this time.

She won't. Scott won't die in this film.

 

[SumT]

Dont think that Jean and Scott having an established relationship needs an additional filler movie inbetween. Lots of solo films that have strong male-female bonds are well developed in the first act of films if the writing and actors chemistry are good. Deadpool with Wade and Vanessa is a good recent example.

thats when the couple are the two leads of the movie (with a small cast) but X-Men is an ensemble, so they wont have all that screentime to theirself.

 

[Tymminator]

On a related note, a while back Marvel started doing Motion Comics and they are way better than they used to be. They did Origins, Black Panther and Weadon’s Astonishing X-Men run.

I would actually like to see a Hellfire Club/Dark Phoenix saga motion comic.

 

[psylockolussus]

thats when the couple are the two leads of the movie (with a small cast) but X-Men is an ensemble, so they wont have all that screentime to theirself.

Kinberg handled a small amount of characters in Fant4stic and look how that turned out. Ensemble or not, it is screwed. I doubt Cyclops' role in this would be very substantial.

 

[I Am The Knight]

To get back to Dark Phoenix, what are you hoping to see from the movie?

I am hoping that it earns Jean's arc. We haven't spent nearly enough time with Sophie as Jean and they are already rushing to Dark Phoenix, so they got a lot to do in such a short time. I hope it feels earned.

Frankly I am not expecting anything. I'll see it out of curiosity like with JL last year. I am more interested in the production and it's place in the film world being sandwiched between Fox and Disney's deal

 

[Drexelhand]

Kinberg handled a small amount of characters in Fant4stic and look how that turned out. Ensemble or not, it is screwed. I doubt Cyclops' role in this would be very substantial.

That movie's faults lie much more with Josh Trank than Simon Kinberg, granted you can tell that the parts which Kinberg ghost directed absolutely blow as opposed to just blow.

 

[Mya]

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