Sequels X-Men Sequel - Part 1

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I still do think having Anna Paquin's Rogue in there somehow would've taken away Mystique's overall importance in the plot. Afterall, Singer himself has described DOFP ultimately is a movie about "saving Raven's soul."

Rescuing Mystique was of paramount importance because her assassination attempt at Trask's life led to her denigration as a character. Her consequent capture allowed Trask to have her metemorphosis powers that allowed the astronomical leap of his Sentinel program.

If they also added in Rogue as being important in the grand scheme of how this version of the Sentinels was perfected, don't you think that would've taken away from the importance of "rescuing Mystique's soul?"

Comic book fans know Mystique might be able to morph into other characters but she isn't able to take their powers. That's Rogue's schtick. Singer simply banked on the fact that the GA don't know this and probably won't question how the Sentinels are able to adapt these mutant powers.

It worked. Few people are questioning how the Sentinels are able to do that.
If you wanna get more technical, the sentinels can adapt.
Darwin is dead, btw.
 
Because of Shaw not because he was experimented by Trask's men.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Not really, at least to the writers.

Did Kinberg and company really think it would be fine again to under use Angel again? I remember people here saying that they should just introduce him in the movie simply because of Apocalypse without considering that Angel's transformation would have no impact to the X-Men. While I disagreed and knew they couldn't give him justice especially the movie would still feature Mystique and Magneto. And that the other big three were gonna get an origin treatment.
 
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I still do think having Anna Paquin's Rogue in there somehow would've taken away Mystique's overall importance in the plot. Afterall, Singer himself has described DOFP ultimately is a movie about "saving Raven's soul."

Rescuing Mystique was of paramount importance because her assassination attempt at Trask's life led to her denigration as a character. Her consequent capture allowed Trask to have her metemorphosis powers that allowed the astronomical leap of his Sentinel program.

If they also added in Rogue as being important in the grand scheme of how this version of the Sentinels was perfected, don't you think that would've taken away from the importance of "rescuing Mystique's soul?"

Comic book fans know Mystique might be able to morph into other characters but she isn't able to take their powers. That's Rogue's schtick. Singer simply banked on the fact that the GA don't know this and probably won't question how the Sentinels are able to adapt these mutant powers.

It worked. Few people are questioning how the Sentinels are able to do that.
Rogue should've been part of the team from the start instead of a plot device/damsel in distress. She should've been in the place of any of the new guys not named Blink, and gotten to take a stab at one of the Sentinels.

Although maybe she should've arrived in the X-Jet with Wolvie, Storm and the Professor, just to retain the drama of having her reunite with Iceman who's with Kitty.

A missed opportunity by the writers.
 
Although maybe she should've arrived in the X-Jet with Wolvie, Storm and the Professor, just to retain the drama of having her reunite with Iceman who's with Kitty.

A missed opportunity by the writers.

That's what I wanted. Though I still feel like if Anna had more time to be there for filming, she would have appeared in more scenes? (same with Halle being pregnant) I just feel like if we saw Rogue being captured by the Sentinel at the start instead of that random mutant with white streaks. Her role wouldn't been an after thought. She was introduced so late in the movie.

I also wanted Beast as that dead X-Man at the start. But there was no reveal of the face. Those little touches would have made the movie better. And I still feel like that Nightcrawler and Angel should have been there instead of Blink, Warpath and Sunspot. All the nicer mutants in the ot reunited. Though I would keep Blink because she looked so cool and Bishop as the other new face.
 
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That's what I wanted. Though I still feel like if Anna had more time to be there for filming, she would have appeared in more scenes? (same with Halle being pregnant) I just feel like if we saw Rogue being captured by the Sentinel at the start instead of random mutant. Her role wouldn't been an after thought. She was introduced so late in the movie.
Didn't McKellen have a small time frame to film X2? And they worked the filming around it. They could've done the same with Paquin and they could've used CGI to give Berry more action -- they just didn't care to.
 
Didn't McKellen have a small time frame to film X2? And they worked the filming around it. They could've done the same with Paquin and they could've used CGI to give Berry more action -- they just didn't care to.

Yeah but Ian had 2 weeks while Anna had only 4 days and I don't think Rogue was their big priority for that movie unlike Magneto was in X2. While CGI Storm would have been nice, it was probably gonna be more expensive to Fox. Though a few more lines for Storm would have been really nice.
 
well, she's sort of available now. :D
 
For you to introduce a foreign enemy, I think you also have to develop the struggle at home first. So Apocalypse should have started out with the mutant/human conflicts at an international scale, just to remind us what the premise of X-Men is.

Apocalypse should have made an appearance halfway through and should have only been foreshadowed before (Singer is good at this: Recall the scene in the plastic prison cell: "Doesn't it ever wake you in the middle of the night, that they will come and take your children?" leading to the raid in X2). Religious references, alien references, etc. Bring in some researchers, maybe they've found mutant DNA on a meteor, whatever. As long as Apocalypse is not so random in the X-Men continuity (which he is).

Then there's the fact they never linked DOFP to Apocalypse. Asimple acknowledgement of the time travel in DOFP would've done. Just something subtle to understand Apocalypse is a result of time travel, maybe Apocalypse saying that he was awoken by some fool's tampering with space-time? He'd have an archaic way of putting it.

They did link DOFP to Apocalypse. Time travel did result in Apocalypse waking up because in the original timeline, the world hated mutants due to Mystique killing Trask so nobody cared about waking up a 5,000 year old mutant. To the humans, Apocalypse is one less mutant to worry about since he's trapped in his tomb but when Wolverine time-traveled to 1973 and asked Xavier to convince Mystique to spare Trask's life, her dropping the gun created a new timeline where mutants are loved and celebrated like rock stars. This change in the timeline is what resulted in a group of worshippers reawakening Apocalypse so there's your acknowledgement of DOFP's time traveling magic.
 
well, she's sort of available now. :D

It's kindatoo late now if the X-Men are really dead in Logan. Which is really sad.

Cyclops, Phoenix, Storm, Rogue, Shadowcat, Colossus, Gambit, Iceman and Beast. That'd be really exciting to watch...

giphy.gif
 
If you wanna get more technical, the sentinels can adapt.
Darwin is dead, btw.

Yeah the sentinels ability probably were more Darwin then anyone's since the sentinels didn't use any of the powers they took on the mutants they just changed their form into whatever kept them alive.
 
Unrelated bet everyone should check this out it's cool as hell and should be how they approach action for the next X-Men film.
[YT]3Dyj80yKB2I[/YT]
This video alone is 10x better than any of the action we got from Storm in the movies thus far.
 
Yeah the sentinels ability probably were more Darwin then anyone's since the sentinels didn't use any of the powers they took on the mutants they just changed their form into whatever kept them alive.

LOL how? Darwin was killed by Shaw, years before a Stryker character was even acknowledged in the FC timeline. You think Stryker (or anyone for that matter) was there scraping the pavement for Darwin's DNA hours after his death???

Or is the better, more plausible scenario that the adaptive powers were sourced from a mutant the Sentinel scientists have on a slab somewhere? I think she likes to be called Rogue.

Heck, the Rogue Cut even went out of it's way to tell us she was captured and experimented on by the bad guys. What else would they even need her for when we know the Sentinels are killing other mutants they encounter and not even taking prisoners?

Rogue should've been part of the team from the start instead of a plot device/damsel in distress. She should've been in the place of any of the new guys not named Blink, and gotten to take a stab at one of the Sentinels.

Although maybe she should've arrived in the X-Jet with Wolvie, Storm and the Professor, just to retain the drama of having her reunite with Iceman who's with Kitty.

A missed opportunity by the writers.

Unfortunately Kinberg insisted on getting the "two old guys" (as he so lovingly called them) for one last little adventure. And had to drag along Rogue for it.

An adventure that should've been executed better. Instead the two were barely on screen at the same time, nevermind that the two barely talked during that mission.

No wonder it was so easy for them to delete this and write around it. IMO, it really was a badly-written, poorly executed scene.

Admittedly the movie was better for it so Kudos on John and Bryan for that. Too bad deleting this scene meant removing Rogue altogether.

Didn't McKellen have a small time frame to film X2? And they worked the filming around it. They could've done the same with Paquin and they could've used CGI to give Berry more action -- they just didn't care to.

Agreed.

Yeah but Ian had 2 weeks while Anna had only 4 days and I don't think Rogue was their big priority for that movie unlike Magneto was in X2. While CGI Storm would have been nice, it was probably gonna be more expensive to Fox. Though a few more lines for Storm would have been really nice.

Unfortunately if you're a character not named Xavier, Magneto, Wolverine or Mystique you're not priority.

From the looks of things though, Apocalypse shows us that at the very least, Cyclops and Jean now are part of that priority list so that's good news.
 
LOL how? Darwin was killed by Shaw, years before a Stryker character was even acknowledged in the FC timeline. You think Stryker (or anyone for that matter) was there scraping the pavement for Darwin's DNA hours after his death???

Or is the better, more plausible scenario that the adaptive powers were sourced from a mutant the Sentinel scientists have on a slab somewhere? I think she likes to be called Rogue.

Heck, the Rogue Cut even went out of it's way to tell us she was captured and experimented on by the bad guys. What else would they even need her for when we know the Sentinels are killing other mutants they encounter and not even taking prisoners?

I am just saying the powers are far more darwin then either rogue or mystique, the sentinels clearly adapted to survive, heck one turned to diamond and another turned to rock at some point so who were they absorbing these powers from?

The sentinels being able to change forms is very much mystique so with movie science its not hard to come up with something that feels connected to mystique just like if you wanted to say rogue was responsible it also wouldn't be difficult even though the sentinels didn't exactly blast ice or fire back at the mutants to show they took their powers or anything so it would still be a movie science twist of rogues powers translated to the sentinels.
 
@Endzon3

That rescue Rogue was poorly directed. It was too quick. Stewart's reaction when Iceman was killed was unintentionally hilarious. The small exchange between Rogue and Xavier at the jet was awkward. I feel likewhen the jet was attacked, someone should have been there to destroy it instead of whatever happened.

But yeah the reasoning for that scene, letting the old guys having their final adventure together was not good. Rogue should have been there from the start.
 
I am just saying the powers are far more darwin then either rogue or mystique, the sentinels clearly adapted to survive, heck one turned to diamond and another turned to rock at some point so who were they absorbing these powers from?

The sentinels being able to change forms is very much mystique so with movie science its not hard to come up with something that feels connected to mystique just like if you wanted to say rogue was responsible it also wouldn't be difficult even though the sentinels didn't exactly blast ice or fire back at the mutants to show they took their powers or anything so it would still be a movie science twist of rogues powers translated to the sentinels.

The way I see it is they were continuing the importance of Mystique's DNA in First Class.

Trask emphasizes that her DNA is the key to understanding mutation. It's important to his research. I think people mistake this for being Mystique = cure and Mystique = Sentinels.

Can Mystique herself cure mutation? No, I mean I don't think so unless it's a physical mutation and you consider changing your appearance a cure. But if you consider that the power can change molecules and a scientist like Hank or Trask can study it then they may be able to take it to the next level. Which for Hank it's turning powers off and for Trask it's turning powers on.

Obviously though Rogue was also meant to play a part in the creation of the Sentinels but it doesn't mean Mystique wasn't important. Look how many people were killed by the Sentinels' stabbing weapons.
 
LOL how? Darwin was killed by Shaw, years before a Stryker character was even acknowledged in the FC timeline. You think Stryker (or anyone for that matter) was there scraping the pavement for Darwin's DNA hours after his death???
Always a possibility. How much older is Trask supposed to be relative to Stryker?

Or is the better, more plausible scenario that the adaptive powers were sourced from a mutant the Sentinel scientists have on a slab somewhere? I think she likes to be called Rogue.
The Rogue that we've seen on screen can do 2 things - drain powers and use said powers. That one sentinel didn't drain Colossus while most counteracted with everyone else via different powersets.

Heck, the Rogue Cut even went out of it's way to tell us she was captured and experimented on by the bad guys. What else would they even need her for when we know the Sentinels are killing other mutants they encounter and not even taking prisoners?
That's where the Rogue Cut is superfluous when you can assume plenty of mutants were experimented on for the sake of making these sentinels stronger (apart from those Gueststar mentioned - one sentinel had Deathstrike's extendable finger claws). Perhaps, Rogue wasn't fully yet in the database whereas the rest of them were.
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Unrelated but everyone should check this out it's cool as hell and should be how they approach action for the next X-Men film.
[YT]3Dyj80yKB2I[/YT]
I do enjoy fanflms every now and again.
This video alone is 10x better than any of the action we got from Storm in the movies thus far.
[YT]EOJxIZoIcVA[/YT]
 
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How does that contradict the previous film?

We've had this convo ad nauseam. Those ok with it say Mystique was simply rescuing mutants but letting them go (which is true).

However those against it say it handicaps a great reveal of Stryker turning out to be Mystique and ultimately makes that scene useless since Wolverine still ends up with Stryker (which is also true). This was the running theme in the part of the post of mine that you quoted. I just wanted to restate it as an example of final scenes in the previous movies that are quickly forgotten (or altogether contradicted with) in the next movie.

We don't need to relitigate this. Really we don't.

I am just saying the powers are far more darwin then either rogue or mystique, the sentinels clearly adapted to survive

But then the other Sentinel grew what looked like Lady Deathstrike claws to survive Sunspot's firepowers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's how Darwin's powers worked...If Darwin is doused with gasoline and set on fire, I don't think he's gonna grow claws to stab the perpetrator? LOL

heck one turned to diamond and another turned to rock at some point so who were they absorbing these powers from?

Presumably that was why Emma was killed off and consequently experimented on. We know Mystique was looking at corpses of her mutant friends in Trask's office. The rock powers could be from any one of those other mutants in that file whose powers we are not privy to. That was also probably one of many folders in that cabinet, filled with other mutants that were experimented on. Long story short, Sentinel scientists were harvesting mutant powers to use on their Sentinels. Mystique is captured, producing an astronomical leap in Trask's research. This is not that hard to gather.
 
The sentinels being able to change forms is very much mystique so with movie science its not hard to come up with something that feels connected to mystique just like if you wanted to say rogue was responsible it also wouldn't be difficult even though the sentinels didn't exactly blast ice or fire back at the mutants to show they took their powers or anything so it would still be a movie science twist of rogues powers translated to the sentinels.

This actually proves my point. Removing Rogue from the final film altogether makes "saving Mystique's soul" that much more important to the survival of the mutant race since she's the only one that needs rescuing. She's the one source of their newfound powers. Which is what happened in the Theatrical cut of the film. The adaptive part of the Sentinel's powers could be any number of faceless mutants we don't have to know the identity of.

Telling the audience Mystique's experimentation + Rogue's experimentation is what produced this new breed of Sentinels lessens the gravity of rescuing Mystique.

Not saying it's anything sinister (though maybe I had my suspicions at that time), but cutting Rogue and her part in the creation of the Sentinels ultimately produced a tighter movie that stressed the magnitude of "saving Raven's soul."
 
We've had this convo ad nauseam. Those ok with it say Mystique was simply rescuing mutants but letting them go (which is true).

However those against it say it handicaps a great reveal of Stryker turning out to be Mystique and ultimately makes that scene useless since Wolverine still ends up with Stryker (which is also true). This was the running theme in the part of the post of mine that you quoted. I just wanted to restate it as an example of final scenes in the previous movies that are quickly forgotten (or altogether contradicted with) in the next movie.

We don't need to relitigate this. Really we don't.

I assumed you were just talking about Stryker running Weapon X.
 
What's the downplay of Storm in the original trilogy? She had plenty to do in X2 and X3.
Absolutely as far as powers are concerned.

But then the other Sentinel grew what looked like Lady Deathstrike claws to survive Sunspot's firepowers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's how Darwin's powers worked...If Darwin is doused with gasoline and set on fire, I don't think he's gonna grow claws to stab the perpetrator? LOL
That one didn't survive Sunspot's fire powers. That's just how he was killed.
The point was merely the sentinels were more often than not displaying Darwin's passive ability than they were Rogue's active absorption.
They certainly found a way to weaponize that passive ability.

Presumably that was why Emma was killed off and consequently experimented on. We know Mystique was looking at corpses of her mutant friends in Trask's office. The rock powers could be from any one of those other mutants in that file whose powers we are not privy to. That was also probably one of many folders in that cabinet, filled with other mutants that were experimented on. Long story short, Sentinel scientists were harvesting mutant powers to use on their Sentinels. Mystique is captured, producing an astronomical leap in Trask's research. This is not that hard to gather.
I have to call in to question this next quote since you've understood this much.

Telling the audience Mystique's experimentation + Rogue's experimentation is what produced this new breed of Sentinels lessens the gravity of rescuing Mystique.
It doesn't.
Even McKellen's Magneto acknowledges he was experimented on the very same kind of bed as they're rescuing Rogue for the purpose of helping Kitty. She's integral to Kitty not losing her connection to Logan out of exhaustion.
 
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What's the downplay of Storm in the original trilogy? She had plenty to do in X2 and X3.

I'm talking more about flying than anything. But yeat power displays were nice overall. Flying was always done terrible though and that fan film did it 10x better imo.
 
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