Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 7

[misslane38]

Patty praised him, people who worked on the movie did. He won awards for it. What narrative bloggers try to create I really dont care.

I was reminded of Patty's appreciation of Zack when someone recently shared the AMA she did for Reddit about a year ago:

I think Zack mostly had an influence in getting things back in order to be a good origin story, and then Geoff and I worked super closely to work on the script and the story and Zack was a great producer, but creatively they gave me the reins.

 

[heatvision38]

Really? I remember several interviews and articles in which Snyder's contributions to the film were noted (e.g. "Why Wonder Woman 'Needed' Steve Trevor").

Interesting line from Jenkins from that article:

"I feel like one of the most ironically sexist things that happened to women heroes for so long was that they had universal storytelling taken away from them. So, male superheroes could have Lois Lane. They can have love, they can have vulnerability, they can have complexity. But women superheroes or strong women characters had to be, 'I don't need anyone, I'm the toughest person in the world.' That's not fair to anybody. No human being is an island like that.

It reminds me of The Force Awakens early in the movie when a couple of times Finn grabs Rey's hand trying to help her (from his point of view), and Rey gets upset with him each time ("I don't need you holding my hand"). It just felt so forced. Kathleen Kennedy and those making these Star Wars films should look to Wonder Woman on how they can create an empowered woman without having to emasculate men in the process. The show Supergirl can fall into this trap at times as well.

 

[GothamBat]

 

[Micromind]

Spoiler

Epic and Bats..

 

[titansupes]

Interesting line from Jenkins from that article:

It reminds me of The Force Awakens early in the movie when a couple of times Finn grabs Rey's hand trying to help her (from his point of view), and Rey gets upset with him each time ("I don't need you holding my hand"). It just felt so forced. Kathleen Kennedy and those making these Star Wars films should look to Wonder Woman on how they can create an empowered woman without having to emasculate men in the process. The show Supergirl can fall into this trap at times as well.

That was resolved in the movie itself, when she hugs him for coming to Starkiller Base to rescue her.

 

[Micromind]

Rey is regarded as a Mary Sue character by some fans.

 

[heatvision38]

That was resolved in the movie itself, when she hugs him for coming to Starkiller Base to rescue her.

Rescuing she really didn't need considering she got herself out of there. All she really needed was the Millennium Falcon.

But that's besides the point, it came across as forced in that scene when they first meet. There is a clear effort in these two Star Wars movies, and perhaps overall since Kennedy took over, to change how people view female characters, but often it's too on the nose or at the expense of the male characters, or both.

Again, there is a big difference between how Wonder Woman has been portrayed in her movie and BvS vs Rey in the 2 Star Wars movies. I also see this happening in Supergirl, which has made the show harder to watch. You can elevate one without lowering the other. It comes across as overcompensation to me and I don't think that's an effective way to get people to see things differently. I am sure far more people are able to recognize and appreciate a strong female character when they see it in the likes of Wonder Woman or Ellen Ripley or Sarah Connor or Lois Lane (pick a version starting with Margot Kidder's through Teri Hatcher to Erica Durance to Amy Adams) as compared to the in-your-face approach they have taken with Rey and Holdo, for example. These Star Wars movies feel like they have an agenda.

 

[heatvision38]

Rey is regarded as a Mary Sue character by some fans.

No, Mary Sue is a Rey. I really don't know how anyone can argue that she isn't a Mary Sue.

 

[idiot09]

Gods among us.

Interesting line from Jenkins from that article:

It reminds me of The Force Awakens early in the movie when a couple of times Finn grabs Rey's hand trying to help her (from his point of view), and Rey gets upset with him each time ("I don't need you holding my hand"). It just felt so forced. Kathleen Kennedy and those making these Star Wars films should look to Wonder Woman on how they can create an empowered woman without having to emasculate men in the process. The show Supergirl can fall into this trap at times as well.

That was so cringe. I hate moments of forced "empowerment" like that. That's why I love Wonder Woman.

 

[souperman]

Gods among us.

That was so cringe. I hate moments of forced "empowerment" like that. That's why I love Wonder Woman.

...try watching the Netflix "Lost in Space" ...


Great BTS pic. Many of the bts images are better than the published images IMO.

 

[kingcharmingman]

WW is the first time i saw a superheroine that warm, feminine, supportive and empower people around her.
She makes people want to be better without making them feel like ****.

Usually modern era superheroines are distant, cold, very independent, dismiss help (at first), trying hard to prove they are strong and can do anything without help from men, also somewhat manipulative.

Supergirl?
I watched it only for melissa benoist, i dont care about character or story lol

 

[GothamBat]

Ok... This annoyed the living hell out of me and I thought I owed it to all of you to share it here so we can all bask in the cringe and annoyance.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I used to watch Walter before all the change the channel stuff, and while the skit stuff is pretty insufferable, his actual critiques tended to be fairly spot on. And if he's done a top five worst, he'll also have a top five best.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

not gonna watch that, but Zack has only directed 8 movies

what a dumb title/concept for a video. If he was a good troll, he would've said 8 worst films. Bad troll.

sad!

 

[GothamBat]

Yeah at the time Zack only had 7 movies. (He technically still does. JL doesn't count) Why make a top 5 anything when you only have a selection of 7 things? It's almost like people go out of their way to attack Snyder even when it makes no sense to...

 

[batfreakforever]

It's almost like people go out of their way to attack Snyder even when it makes no sense to...

That's most people on this Forum.

 

[kingcharmingman]

I'm fine when people expressing opinion, but not fine when people begin to insult a person by mocking their style.

 

[atila9323]

This never gets old. Kevin Smith talking about the Snyder Cut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Jppa8t6mc

 

[heatvision38]

This never gets old. Kevin Smith talking about the Snyder Cut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4Jppa8t6mc

Was this from the same time when the woman who was in the audience who said she saw the cut and was able to confirm or discomfirm those plot points and scenes?

 

[Vaibow]

Moving forward, i am going to miss Snyder's tone, aesthetics etc. JL highlights it for me - Snyder just bought these characters to life.

 

[kguillou]

I'm telling you, I'm seeing more and more fans of Zack pop up all over social media and on the one hand its heartwarming seeing that he has such a big fanbase and on the other...where were these people when the man was getting raked at the coals during the MoS/BvS era? You would've thought the whole world hated the guy when those movies came out.

Now, in the wake of JL i am seeing TONS of people saying "WB should've kept Zack." I'm hard pressed to find any positive feedback on this current iteration of JL.

 

[GothamBat]

Sometimes it's hard not to get swept up in bandwagon hate. I often find myself deriving some degree of satisfaction from the Kathleen Kennedy hate train even though I'm not a die hard Star Wars fan and I liked The Last Jedi and Solo. I also know next to nothing about what she did other than a few pretty cringe worthy comments about how Lucasfilms shouldn't cater to male fans and a few pictures of her wearing some sexist "The force is female" shirt or whatever. I think internet culture just has an innate need to rally around causes, boycotts and hate campaigns are especially tempting because they offer some degree of catharsis. There's usually no going back when a "this person sucks" narrative begins to form and it snowballs from there. People are fickle and flippant in real life and that's multiplied tenfold online.

 

[kguillou]

I get that, sometimes it is fun to get caught up in that stuff especially when its about a movie thats unanimously derided like Fan4stic for example. But im just sayin, in the wake of JL, I am seeing a LOT of people on social media say they liked Zack's work and they should've kept him on and they wanna see the Snyder cut etc. Click on any Youtube video about Justice League and the comments are all rallying for the Snyder Cut. I had no idea the guy had that large a fanbase bevause circa 2013, everyone wanted his head for having Superman snap Zod's neck, or at least, thats how it appeared on the net.

 

[Jekecy]

Sometimes it's hard not to get swept up in bandwagon hate. I often find myself deriving some degree of satisfaction from the Kathleen Kennedy hate train even though I'm not a die hard Star Wars fan and I liked The Last Jedi and Solo. I also know next to nothing about what she did other than a few pretty cringe worthy comments about how Lucasfilms shouldn't cater to male fans and a few pictures of her wearing some sexist "The force is female" shirt or whatever. I think internet culture just has an innate need to rally around causes, boycotts and hate campaigns are especially tempting because they offer some degree of catharsis. There's usually no going back when a "this person sucks" narrative begins to form and it snowballs from there. People are fickle and flippant in real life and that's multiplied tenfold online.

Audiences love comeback stories. If said artist comes out with an undisputed piece of work that triumphs, the past is left in the past.

Look at RDJ. Look at Shyamalan. Those guys were scraping the bottom of the bottom, but they trudged along and kept at it. Hell, it only took one project for each of them to practically wipe out a decade of PR crap. They're back in the good graces of the industry and fans alike.

If Snyder's capable of getting a mainstream hit out there, he'll be treated no different. No one stays in the dog house forever unless you're actively failing.

 

[GothamBat]

Audiences love comeback stories. If said artist comes out with an undisputed piece of work that triumphs, the past is left in the past.

Look at RDJ. Look at Shyamalan. Those guys were scraping the bottom of the bottom, but they trudged along and kept at it. Hell, it only took one project for each of them to practically wipe out a decade of PR crap. They're back in the good graces of the industry and fans alike.

If Snyder's capable of getting a mainstream hit out there, he'll be treated no different. No one stays in the dog house forever unless you're actively failing.

Did the fans have it out for RDJ when he was in trouble with the law and stuff? I don't think there even was any fan community to have that reaction in the first place. His current fanbase began with his MCU debut, didn't it? So how could that fanbase have a change of heart when it started at the same time as his comeback? And Shaymalan... I mean... Maybe there is a contingent who say he's back to making great stuff, but I doubt that's the majority.

But yes, I agree. Conversely, the same people who villify and join hate campaigns, also love a comeback story. Both sides of that phenomena are apparent in the whole Batfleck controversy if you ask me. People were rioting over his casting and now they'll have an equally as intense reaction if you disparage him in the role.