Justice League Zack Snyder Directing Justice League - Part 7

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LOL, I did say probably one of the reasons why the channel got popular and you probably would've picked up on it if you weren't consumed by a fit of rage because somebody liked a video of somebody else criticizing Snyder's work.
Honestly I don't really understand why you keep reading my posts especially when they seem to upset you so much, just put me on ignore and be done with it.

I don't think anything you've posted has upset or angered me to any extent, at all, ever. I don't know if you're trolling or joking but based on your extremely salty posts, I'd say you're a lot more of a better fit for the "consumed by a fit of rage" type.
 
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I think that there is some truth to this but in the same I believe some is fan fic. Honestly I think we'll never really know what happened but I do believe there is some truth behind this mainly looking at what happened to SS, JL, BvS: DOJ (how the UC was better received), Flash and The Batman. I believe some wanted to lighten up or as some would call it "Marvel Up" the DCEU where it is more bright, less serious and family friendly. While others wanted to stay the course that Nolan and Snyder started with MOS and still keep it serious and down to earth. You can actually see the effects of the changes when SS comic-con trailer which was more in lined with what the tone of the original movie and what we got. Which is also sad given people were hyped for SS after seeing the Comic-con trailer but when they rewrote and reworked the movie you saw the Hype die down and people start to complain about how they messed up the movie. This whole thing IMO has just become a sad mess.
 
definitely a lot of BS in that reddit read... wb ceo kevin tsujihara had way more dictatorship over how this thing has gone downhill with seriously shortsighted vision, and rightly should be under inquiry. Not even getting into how badly Suicide Squad was gouged and thrown back together... First Kevin Tsujihara had Snyder hack 30 minutes out of BvS, it was still extremely successful $-wise, and then Snyder's cut was vindicated by being the highest selling BR release ever. Instead of learning from the mistake Kevin Tsujihara made, he then goes along with tampering even more in the followup JL1-2 (I guess he really loves to follow some negative bloggers). Avengers IW was a hit with a well over 2 hr runtime, and a cliffhanger non-upbeat ending 2parter... exactly what Snyder had envisioned his JL way ahead of the curve. Snyder had openly talked about his outline towards this. Kevin, in an effort to make sure his bonuses for the year were intact, pushed Snyder out under using the excuse of the family tragedy, instead of pushing the date back and giving Snyder time to recover. Joss was brought in to do a hack job finish and rearrangement of an already gouged story, at a time when he wasn't at the top of his game anymore and didn't have serious stakes in a film that wasn't his anyway.
Much of what was shot for JL, and then cut, would've furthered other character movies to boot... so not only did Kevin Tsujihara cost JL millions, but also lost WB 100s of millions in expanding DC films from those little exposures.
Kevin states not wanting to be another Marvel with DC, and yet brings in a former Marvel director/writer to do a quick lighthearted hackjob instead of letting the talent already there just do their own work.
 
There doesn't have to be any villains. Not Snyder. Not Johns. Just poor decision making all the way around by everyone involved.
 
definitely a lot of BS in that reddit read... wb ceo kevin tsujihara had way more dictatorship over how this thing has gone downhill with seriously shortsighted vision, and rightly should be under inquiry. Not even getting into how badly Suicide Squad was gouged and thrown back together... First Kevin Tsujihara had Snyder hack 30 minutes out of BvS, it was still extremely successful $-wise, and then Snyder's cut was vindicated by being the highest selling BR release ever.

:huh:
 
... First Kevin Tsujihara had Snyder hack 30 minutes out of BvS, it was still extremely successful $-wise, and then Snyder's cut was vindicated by being the highest selling BR release ever...

It's not the highest selling BR release ever.

My source

Let's calm down on the hyperbole too.
 
I'm sorry, you are correct, I should have specified that more correctly instead of quickly grabbing snippets. It merely hit the top selling list due to the volume from the Ultimate cut sales.


I will definitely agree there's no real "villian" but follks laying blame on Snyder is completely misplaced when there plenty of well documented instances where specific executives above him pushed constraints that created the results most are complaining about.
 
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I'm sorry, you are correct, I should have specified that more correctly instead of quickly grabbing snippets. It merely hit the top selling list due to the volume from the Ultimate cut sales.

Which most big releases hit the top selling list when they come out on blu-ray. It doesn't necessarily mean though that it proved that Snyder was vindicated.
 
I'm sorry, you are correct, I should have specified that more correctly instead of quickly grabbing snippets. It merely hit the top selling list due to the volume from the Ultimate cut sales.


I will definitely agree there's no real "villian" but follks laying blame on Snyder is completely misplaced when there plenty of well documented instances where specific executives above him pushed constraints that created the results most are complaining about.

Fair enough.
 
I wouldnt say the UE vindicated BvS, but mos def the narrative around the movie softened a ton. A lot of the popular bloggers that lambasted BvS ended up liking the Ultimate Cut and some apologized to Zack. But by then the damage was already done. And a lot of people disliked the movie on a fundamental level, so 30 minutes extra did nothing for them.
 
I don't think anything you've posted has upset or angered me to any extent, at all, ever. I don't know if you're trolling or joking but based on your extremely salty posts, I'd say you're a lot more of a better fit for the "consumed by a fit of rage" type.

I'm pretty sure every single time I criticize Snyder you get upset, why else would you take my comment about the Snyder critique video possibly contributing to the channel's popularity and then twist it to me saying that the channel is popular because it criticizes Snyder if you weren't so angry that you didn't even bother to read the post properly?
Like I said, do yourself and favor and just put me on ignore, it's that simple.
 
I'm pretty sure every single time I criticize Snyder you get upset, why else would you take my comment about the Snyder critique video possibly contributing to the channel's popularity and then twist it to me saying that the channel is popular because it criticizes Snyder if you weren't so angry that you didn't even bother to read the post properly?
Like I said, do yourself and favor and just put me on ignore, it's that simple.

I mean... It's not really up for debate. I don't find your posts upsetting at all. You can be "pretty sure" I do as much as you want. I just don't. They're completely innocuous and occasionally quite (unintentionally) amusing.

And I didn't really twist anything you said. I was being sarcastic and employing some degree of hyperbole to underscore how silly your presumption was.

If one of us is losing it over the other's posts, I'd say it's you. I don't intend to put you (or anyone) on ignore but you can feel free to do that. I tried it once and it's a feature I'm not too big on. I don't want bothersome phantom posts cluttering up the page.
 
I'm sorry, you are correct, I should have specified that more correctly instead of quickly grabbing snippets. It merely hit the top selling list due to the volume from the Ultimate cut sales.

I will definitely agree there's no real "villian" but follks laying blame on Snyder is completely misplaced when there plenty of well documented instances where specific executives above him pushed constraints that created the results most are complaining about.

I don't think it's misplaced at all. Ultimately his vision is his vision, and his vision just isn't compatible with these characters. Executive intrusion didn't make him portray the Kents as essentially raising Clark to be a sociopath. Executive interference didn't force him to make Batman a brutal killer. Executive interference didn't make him introduce Jimmy Olsen only to have him mercilessly killed off moments later. Those were all horrible choices, and they rest solely with Zack Snyder. And we're just scratching the surface of the countless bad choices he's made with all three movies.

Zack Snyder's instincts and what he wants out of his movies don't fit the DCEU at all. And while the people who hired him to direct the movies bear some responsibility for how things turned out, as he was their guy, he nonetheless bears the most responsibility. Snyder just misunderstands these characters at a fundamental level, and he's poorly suited to portray them in a movie (And really, getting down to it, BVS didn't need to be a 3 hour movie. Snyder could've easily conceived the movie as a 2 hour story from the start and it would've been fine. He's the one who unnecessarily chose to make a film which required a large run time).
 
I don't think it's misplaced at all. Ultimately his vision is his vision, and his vision just isn't compatible with these characters. Executive intrusion didn't make him portray the Kents as essentially raising Clark to be a sociopath. Executive interference didn't force him to make Batman a brutal killer. Executive interference didn't make him introduce Jimmy Olsen only to have him mercilessly killed off moments later. Those were all horrible choices, and they rest solely with Zack Snyder. And we're just scratching the surface of the countless bad choices he's made with all three movies.

Zack Snyder's instincts and what he wants out of his movies don't fit the DCEU at all. And while the people who hired him to direct the movies bear some responsibility for how things turned out, as he was their guy, he nonetheless bears the most responsibility. Snyder just misunderstands these characters at a fundamental level, and he's poorly suited to portray them in a movie (And really, getting down to it, BVS didn't need to be a 3 hour movie. Snyder could've easily conceived the movie as a 2 hour story from the start and it would've been fine. He's the one who unnecessarily chose to make a film which required a large run time).

Maybe you're the one struggling to comprehend considering there's nothing sociopathic with the Kents, Batman's killing is condemned (unlike the Nolan films where his many kills are unaddressed) and Jimmy wasn't in the films (he was a fake, a CIA agent in disguise, not the actual Jimmy). I hope that clears things up.
 
I don't think it's misplaced at all. Ultimately his vision is his vision, and his vision just isn't compatible with these characters. Executive intrusion didn't make him portray the Kents as essentially raising Clark to be a sociopath. Executive interference didn't force him to make Batman a brutal killer. Executive interference didn't make him introduce Jimmy Olsen only to have him mercilessly killed off moments later. Those were all horrible choices, and they rest solely with Zack Snyder. And we're just scratching the surface of the countless bad choices he's made with all three movies.

Zack Snyder's instincts and what he wants out of his movies don't fit the DCEU at all. And while the people who hired him to direct the movies bear some responsibility for how things turned out, as he was their guy, he nonetheless bears the most responsibility. Snyder just misunderstands these characters at a fundamental level, and he's poorly suited to portray them in a movie (And really, getting down to it, BVS didn't need to be a 3 hour movie. Snyder could've easily conceived the movie as a 2 hour story from the start and it would've been fine. He's the one who unnecessarily chose to make a film which required a large run time).


As has surely been said, this was a group effort. With films this big, there are a lot of people running things and a lot of blame to go around. That's one of the reasons why the Reddit "leak" reads so fake. It attempts to put the burden of everything that went wrong on Geoff Johns to an almost cartoonish degree (seriously, the part about him accidentally leaking the script to Marvel is like something out of an episode of The Office).

Snyder was definitely the wrong fit for these films in hindsight, but there were multiple people up top who kept giving him chances or signing off on his creative decisions that could've stepped in and said no at any point. The Wall Street Journal article that revealed that the studio had already soured on Zack by the time Justice League was about to shoot but kept him on anyway just so the movie could get finished on time so they could get their bonuses is the perfect snapshot of everything that went wrong with this working relationship.

There is a, frankly, romanticized fantasy that a lot of people have, where the artist is always right and those greedy execs just muck up their pure, amazing work, but the reality is that many creators, even good ones, sometimes need to be kept in check or overruled on certain things. Even truly iconic filmmakers like Scorsese, Coppola, Spielberg and (most famously) Lucas have high profile instances of turning in absolutely dreck after being given complete creative and financial freedom with no oversight. Part of the studio's job is supposed to be to keep an eye on things to make sure the movie doesn't go off the rails.
 
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I don't think it's misplaced at all. Ultimately his vision is his vision, and his vision just isn't compatible with these characters. Executive intrusion didn't make him portray the Kents as essentially raising Clark to be a sociopath. Executive interference didn't force him to make Batman a brutal killer. Executive interference didn't make him introduce Jimmy Olsen only to have him mercilessly killed off moments later. Those were all horrible choices, and they rest solely with Zack Snyder. And we're just scratching the surface of the countless bad choices he's made with all three movies.

You see, it's comments like these that have me sighing. There is just so much hyperbole on the internet. Nuance is dead. Specificity has gone the way of the dodo. Instead of actually saying what you do or don't like in your own words, you are throwing around a word like 'sociopath' as if that somehow makes what you say more effective. It's not just you; I see this way too much. I think it comes from the desire of so many people on the internet to want their opinions to stand out. Sharing our opinions is a form of self-expression, and self-expression is an extension of our identity. So if our opinions stand out, we stand out.
 
You see, it's comments like these that have me sighing. There is just so much hyperbole on the internet. Nuance is dead. Specificity has gone the way of the dodo. Instead of actually saying what you do or don't like in your own words, you are throwing around a word like 'sociopath' as if that somehow makes what you say more effective. It's not just you; I see this way too much. I think it comes from the desire of so many people on the internet to want their opinions to stand out. Sharing our opinions is a form of self-expression, and self-expression is an extension of our identity. So if our opinions stand out, we stand out.

MoS Superman isn't a 'sociopath', but Snyder's obsession with objectivism really showed as the thematic mold around Clark's character and moral compass. You can't have your spandex hero seriously debate whether or not it's okay to let kids die and then wonder afterwards why no one gave a **** when he died in the following sequel. And the faux-solemnness and wooden nature of Cavill's performance was no doubt deliberate on Snyder's part; if he wants those objectivist themes respected, then Cavill can't go around with his fists and his hips declaring peace and justice for all. No, he has to be conflicted 100% of the time, no room for optimism or fun or whatever.

And the clunky execution that falls short under logical scrutiny is just classic Snyder tomfoolery; if Clark can move at supersonic speeds casually, no one at the scene of the tornado would have noticed him saving his father - especially not with the chaos of the storm in their midst and all of them likely under duress. And the kids who 'saw' what Clark did? Why did the adults even entertain them considering most of them were on the verge of drowning before they were saved?
 
You see, it's comments like these that have me sighing. There is just so much hyperbole on the internet. Nuance is dead. Specificity has gone the way of the dodo. Instead of actually saying what you do or don't like in your own words, you are throwing around a word like 'sociopath' as if that somehow makes what you say more effective. It's not just you; I see this way too much. I think it comes from the desire of so many people on the internet to want their opinions to stand out. Sharing our opinions is a form of self-expression, and self-expression is an extension of our identity. So if our opinions stand out, we stand out.


It accurately describes Pa Kent's "advice" to a young Clark, suggesting that he should've allowed a busload of children to drown to death. A sociopath is someone lacking in a conscience. Pa Kent's advice amounts to advising Clark to become a sociopath. Ma Kent does the same when the Earth is in danger by telling Clark that he doesn't owe anyone anything (I.E. To Hell with the 7 billion people living on the planet. He shouldn't feel obligated to help any of them, her included).

That's why the word sociopath is being thrown around, because the "upbringing" Clark got from the Kents can and should've turned Clark into a complete sociopath with no sense of empathy for anyone else, while only caring about his own needs or concerns (Then again, the only thing he seems to care about is Lois as he makes out with her with post-apocalyptic Metropolis in the distance, so maybe they succeeded?).
 
As has surely been said, this was a group effort. With films this big, there are a lot of people running things and a lot of blame to go around. That's one of the reasons why the Reddit "leak" reads so fake. It attempts to put the burden of everything that went wrong on Geoff Johns to an almost cartoonish degree (seriously, the part about him accidentally leaking the script to Marvel is like something out of an episode of The Office).

Snyder was definitely the wrong fit for these films in hindsight, but there were multiple people up top who kept giving him chances or signing off on his creative decisions that could've stepped in and said no at any point. The Wall Street Journal article that revealed that the studio had already soured on Zack by the time Justice League was about to shoot but kept him on anyway just so the movie could get finished on time so they could get their bonuses is the perfect snapshot of everything that went wrong with this working relationship.

Agreed. Plenty of people share the blame. I'm just saying that Snyder holds the lion's share of the blame, as the worst elements of those movies came from his mind. That others allowed his nonsense to continue for so long doesn't change the fact that those elements came from him, specifically, and wouldn't have existed had pretty much any other filmmaker on the planet been put on the project. Those are specific Snyderisms, and he's 100% responsible for those elements. WB execs are responsible for hiring him in the first place, and then keeping him on for two more movies on what should've been their multi-billion dollar franchise. It's a complete travesty that the MCU has so far churned out half-a-dozen billion dollar plus movies, while the DCEU hasn't produced one. Justice League should've easily done monstrous box office, and there's plenty of blame to go around for why it didn't. I just think Snyder is #1 on that list, though I don't believe for a second that he's the only one.

There is a, frankly, romanticized fantasy that a lot of people have, where the artist is always right and those greedy execs just muck up their pure, amazing work, but the reality is that many creators, even good ones, sometimes need to be kept in check or overruled on certain things. Even truly iconic filmmakers like Scorsese, Coppola, Spielberg and (most famously) Lucas have high profile instances of turning in absolutely dreck after being given complete creative and financial freedom with no oversight. Part of the studio's job is supposed to be to keep an eye on things to make sure the movie doesn't go off the rails.

Agreed. Had Lucas not been reigned in, Han Solo would've been a lizard alien, C-3P0 would've had a sleazy car salesman voice, Luke would've been a 50-year-old man with a robot head named Luke Starkiller, etc. Some creators just have bad instincts and need to be reigned in at times. At least in Lucas's case his bad ideas were on a property he created. Snyder's bad ideas have tarnished what should've been multiple billion dollar franchises, and WB execs should've known better. That wasn't a case where Snyder needed to be "reigned in", as Lucas was reigned in. He needed to not have been involved in the first place. If he hadn't, then I suspect we would've gotten a great Superman movie which would've done far better at the box office than Man of Steel did, which would've led to a proper Superman sequel in turn, a great introduction for the new version of Batman down the road (preferably in his own film), and a Justice League movie that blew the doors off the box office. Instead, we got what we got.
 
It accurately describes Pa Kent's "advice" to a young Clark, suggesting that he should've allowed a busload of children to drown to death. A sociopath is someone lacking in a conscience. Pa Kent's advice amounts to advising Clark to become a sociopath. Ma Kent does the same when the Earth is in danger by telling Clark that he doesn't owe anyone anything (I.E. To Hell with the 7 billion people living on the planet. He shouldn't feel obligated to help any of them, her included).

That's why the word sociopath is being thrown around, because the "upbringing" Clark got from the Kents can and should've turned Clark into a complete sociopath with no sense of empathy for anyone else, while only caring about his own needs or concerns (Then again, the only thing he seems to care about is Lois as he makes out with her with post-apocalyptic Metropolis in the distance, so maybe they succeeded?).

Jonathan did not advise his son to allow a busload of children to drown. He told his son that he didn't know all the answers because the choices Clark makes could have consequences that go beyond Clark and the people of Smallville. Rather than encourage Clark to dismiss the suffering of others, he suggested that Clark needs to approach his moral decision making by thinking about a bigger picture. As we will later hear in BvS, Jonathan once thought it was good and heroic to save his family farm by daming up a flood, but he was horrified to discover his actions led to flooding another farm. Jonathan loves his son, but who Clark is and what he can do is analogous to the effects of the creation of the atomic bomb. It may have ended World War II and saved more lives to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but how many more have died due to the conflicts and consequences of the dawn of the nuclear age.

As for Martha, she's right. Clark doesn't owe the world a thing. No one does. No one owes the world his or her life. If that were true, then human beings would have no free will. Clark's solar-based powers do not obligate him to become a servant of the USA. His powers do not obligate him to become humanity's messiah. If Superman was Superman because his DNA set his life's course at birth, then what sort of hero is that? A hero isn't a hero out of obligation. A hero is a hero because the drive to do good and to serve others is the core of the hero's own heart. Martha's advice to her son was to follow his own heart. If Superman served humanity for any other reason than a pure desire to do so, then that isn't goodness at all. Not even close.

Clark was not raised to not have empathy for anyone else. He feels for Pete Ross. He feels for Chrissy. He feels for Lois Lane. He feels for a soldier. He feels for the terrified and forgotten people of Gotham. He feels for a girl in Juarez. He risks the weakening power of the World Engine to save humanity, including Perry, Jenny, and Steve in Metropolis. The same trio who say, "They saved us" in the post-apocalyptic rubble of Metropolis. Later, he will die to save humanity even though at the time humanity had rejected him.

The idea that sociopathy has anything to do with DCEU Superman is absurd. It is hyperbolic nonsense not even remotely supported by the films.
 
MoS Superman isn't a 'sociopath', but Snyder's obsession with objectivism really showed as the thematic mold around Clark's character and moral compass. You can't have your spandex hero seriously debate whether or not it's okay to let kids die and then wonder afterwards why no one gave a **** when he died in the following sequel. And the faux-solemnness and wooden nature of Cavill's performance was no doubt deliberate on Snyder's part; if he wants those objectivist themes respected, then Cavill can't go around with his fists and his hips declaring peace and justice for all. No, he has to be conflicted 100% of the time, no room for optimism or fun or whatever.

And the clunky execution that falls short under logical scrutiny is just classic Snyder tomfoolery; if Clark can move at supersonic speeds casually, no one at the scene of the tornado would have noticed him saving his father - especially not with the chaos of the storm in their midst and all of them likely under duress. And the kids who 'saw' what Clark did? Why did the adults even entertain them considering most of them were on the verge of drowning before they were saved?

To your second paragraph first: I agree that the Pa Kent tornado scene was clunky. But it wasn't the concept as much as the execution. The could have found a better way of arriving at the same point.

To the first: At what point does Clark wonder whether it was ok to let the school kids die? If anything, he risks his identity to save them, something he does multiple times during the movie, either risking his identity or risking his life because he knows that saving lives is more important. How does this make it harder to support him or feel for him? The fact that Lois was able to backtrack Clark's identity from the Arctic all the way to his doorstep in tiny, middle-of-nowhere Smallville simply due to the presence he has left behind through the years also illustrates what kind of person Clark is, one who saves people.

I think your issue is more with Jonathan Kent, not Clark. However, I think many people are interpreting Jonathan's "maybe" as him essentially saying to Clark it's ok to let the kids die. But watch that scene, listen to the music playing, watch how Costner plays that scene. It's pretty clear that he is struggling with what to do. We are not used to this out of Jonathan Kent, this uncertainty in how he should raise Clark. We expect that he has all the answers. But what Snyder was trying to do was show us a special being having to come to terms with what and who he is, and how his parents would handle that is part of this. What if Superman comics never existed? What if we didn't have them in our minds to compare this to? Because this version of Jonathan Kent doesn't have that to go by. He is making it up as he goes along because there is no instruction manual on how to raise an alien boy with incredible powers.

But Jonathan did not genuinely want Clark to let those kids die. We know this because Clark is a hero. He saves those kids on the bus. He saves the kid who was bullying him just seconds before. He tries to protect the waitress. He saves the people on the oil rig despite knowing they would see his face. He puts his life on the line by giving himself over the government, by fighting trained Kryptonians, by taking down the world engine despite the fact it's weakening him, by fighting Zod, and any other acts of heroism that Lois found out about in trying to find him. Where did he learn this from? We also know that on two separate occasions, including the one directly after the "maybe" line where Jonathan is showing Clark his spaceship and speaks to Clark about the potential of standing proudly in front of the human race, and then later, after Clark is bullied, he again tells Clark he is gonna change the world. In BvS, Clark tells Lois that Superman (the idea) was a dream of his father's.

I don't see how any of that shows us a Jonathan Kent who did a poor job raising Clark. I just see a guy doing the best he can, a guy who is also scared that if his son is found out, he will be taken away and treated as a lab rat and will never have his life on his terms ever again, and this is very human.
 
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MoS Superman isn't a 'sociopath', but Snyder's obsession with objectivism really showed as the thematic mold around Clark's character and moral compass. You can't have your spandex hero seriously debate whether or not it's okay to let kids die and then wonder afterwards why no one gave a **** when he died in the following sequel. And the faux-solemnness and wooden nature of Cavill's performance was no doubt deliberate on Snyder's part; if he wants those objectivist themes respected, then Cavill can't go around with his fists and his hips declaring peace and justice for all. No, he has to be conflicted 100% of the time, no room for optimism or fun or whatever.

You don't really understand objectivism at all, do you? You can't possibly if you think that Snyder's films have objectivist themes. Clark didn't seriously debate letting kids die. If he had, then he would have let the kids die. He didn't. The only person he "let" die was his own father. He accepted his father's sacrifice because his father believed it was the best thing for his son and the world. Jonathan never encouraged his son to let anyone die. He encouraged him to consider that when he makes a decision to save the lives of a bus full of children, there may be consequences that could cause more far-reaching dangers. Jonathan's overprotectiveness is all about making sure his adolescent son is not exposed to the world before he or the world is ready for what happens next.

And what happens next is exactly why Superman can't be all fun and optimism. Because the world does struggle with the introduction of The Superman. It changes humanity's understanding of its place in the universe. It changes the way people think about god. It is a catalyst for a global existential crisis. If Superman came into a world that was ready to accept him, then that isn't a world in which Superman can make a difference. If the world is so full of hope and optimism, so willing to embrace an alien who must be trusted rather than controlled, then really, "Must there be a Superman?"

And the clunky execution that falls short under logical scrutiny is just classic Snyder tomfoolery; if Clark can move at supersonic speeds casually, no one at the scene of the tornado would have noticed him saving his father - especially not with the chaos of the storm in their midst and all of them likely under duress. And the kids who 'saw' what Clark did? Why did the adults even entertain them considering most of them were on the verge of drowning before they were saved?

Did we know at the time the tornado hit that Clark had superspeed? No, we didn't. He had only demonstrated some super strength, super hearing, x-ray vision, and heat vision. It took Clark until he was 33 to learn how to fly. What makes you think he had superspeed at 17 years-old? The adults in town, like Pete's mom, clearly believe in things that some might have difficulty believing. Pete's mom sure thought Clark was near to the second-coming. Plus, as we saw in the scene with little Clark at school, he'd always been an outcast and a kid for whom rumors run rampant. Perhaps the adults entertained the idea because on some level it was a way to make sense of all the strangeness surrounding Clark Kent.
 
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It accurately describes Pa Kent's "advice" to a young Clark, suggesting that he should've allowed a busload of children to drown to death. A sociopath is someone lacking in a conscience. Pa Kent's advice amounts to advising Clark to become a sociopath. Ma Kent does the same when the Earth is in danger by telling Clark that he doesn't owe anyone anything (I.E. To Hell with the 7 billion people living on the planet. He shouldn't feel obligated to help any of them, her included).

That's why the word sociopath is being thrown around, because the "upbringing" Clark got from the Kents can and should've turned Clark into a complete sociopath with no sense of empathy for anyone else, while only caring about his own needs or concerns (Then again, the only thing he seems to care about is Lois as he makes out with her with post-apocalyptic Metropolis in the distance, so maybe they succeeded?).

The word 'sociopath' is being thrown around because some people hear it, then others, then more; it becomes a word of convenience, not accuracy. I think there has been a lot of lazy analysis of these movies, and how people view Jonathan Kent and Clark is at the top of that. You can read my post above this one so I won't go into how this scene in no way is showing us that Jonathan actually wants Clark to let kids die.

I just want to address your usage of sociopath. If Jonathan had no conscience, then he would not have struggled with how to answer Clark's question. But he did. That's conscience. And he is not simply suggesting Clark kill people or let people die because, well, just because. He is mainly concerned with what may happen if people find out about Clark, an alien with special powers. In other words, Jonathan Kent, a father, is trying to protect his son. Again, that comes from love, the very opposite of what you are describing. I also highlighted other lines from Jonathan in the movie in the post above that continue to show that he had hoped for Clark to be the hero he would become. It's right there in the move. He explicitly says it, and even at the end of the movie when we see Clark talking to his mom, his mother says his father always believed he would become this man.

Calling Clark a sociopath or saying his parents raised him as one or parented him in a manner that would cause Clark to be one is just not supported by any evidence in either this movie or BvS. And the fact that Clark does go on to continue to save people and do all the heroic things he does, obviously he got that from somewhere (by the way, remember the scene in BvS when Clark is on the snowy mountain recalling a conversation with his dad about saving his farm, but finding out later that it came at the expense of the horses on the next farm over? The fact that Jonathan talks about how this haunted him again shows us that this man cares).
 
What if Superman comics never existed? What if we didn't have them in our minds to compare this to?

I think you can compare Costner's Jonathan to the comics. You can go back to the beginning, in fact.

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But Jonathan did not genuinely want Clark to let those kids die.

It certainly isn't Jonathan's prerogative to stand by and let kids die when he could save them. He's the one who first picks up the little girl to save her from the tornado. Like you said, Jonathan's "Maybe" isn't a "No," and his uncertainty is rooted in a larger concern for even more lives besides those closest to Clark and to Smallville.
 
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monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"