BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Wylie Times]

Lois pieced it together because she was literally AT the firefight in the dessert. And she was investigating it. Bruce wasn't investigating it, all he saw was a Superman that didn't stop the bomb.

Okay but Bruce wants the Kryptonite for the VERY SAME REASON. Lex and Bruce have very similar motives. Obviously Lex is a bad guy, but again, Bruce doesn't have a reason to go after him. Bruce doesn't trust Superman, Lex doesn't trust Superman. Why would Bruce focus on Lex when they are both after Superman?

If Lex is "OBVIOUSLY" a bad guy why wouldn't the world greatest detective look into him further while also looking for info on how to kill Superman?

 

[javonstokess]

Lois pieced it together because she was literally AT the firefight in the dessert. And she was investigating it. Bruce wasn't investigating it, all he saw was a Superman that didn't stop the bomb.

Okay but Bruce wants the Kryptonite for the VERY SAME REASON. Lex and Bruce have very similar motives. Obviously Lex is a bad guy, but again, Bruce doesn't have a reason to go after him. Bruce doesn't trust Superman, Lex doesn't trust Superman. Why would Bruce focus on Lex when they are both after Superman?

What does the desert firefight have to do with the kryptonite? And so what if Bruce is getting the kryptonite for the same reason, but he KNOWS that Lex is dirty because he went out of his way to hack his database.

 

[Flint Marko]

Explain Doomsday for me then. Please, using just the information presented in the movie, explain what Lex did to make him, how he did it, and most importantly, why he did it. Use only the information in the movie.

Still waiting on an answer here, folks.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

I am being serious. There's no logical reason why that character as he's portrayed in that film wouldn't gather as much Intel as possible on someone he perceived to be a threat. If he was incapable of gathering that intel for whatever reason that'd be one thing, but he obviously didn't even try.

So yeah, that counts as a plot hole unless you want to argue that this version of Batman is stupid or lazy.

What good does knowing who Superman grew up as help him? Is he going to toss Lois off the top of Wayne tower? Is he going to hold Martha ransom in the batcave? Talk about Batman being out of character...

No. He has all the info he needs on how to take him down with the Kryptonite. Why is Superman's alter ego important? You really want Batman to do what Lex did? Use Superman's loved ones as hostages and chess pieces? Batman is the world's greatest detective because he found the clues he needed and didn't waste time on frivolous information that wasn't needed.

It wasn't Clark Kent Batman had issues with. It was Superman's power. Once he figured out how to neutralize Superman's power, nothing else mattered.

 

[javonstokess]

Actually both of those things make sense within the context of both films.

What was he supposed to do, Fight the government over Zod's body and the ship? Him taking Zod's body and the ship really would have made him seem like a threat.

I can kinda see leaving Zod's body, but it makes zero sense for him to leave the ship. I mean, it's not like they could have stopped him from picking it up and putting it on the moon or something.

Y'know, seeing as how he took the ship in the first place to get it away from the government.

 

[Supernova]

Still waiting on an answer here, folks.

Keep waiting cause it was there in the film, if you dont remember it oh well

 

[javonstokess]

What good does knowing who Superman grew up as help him? Is he going to toss Lois off the top of Wayne tower? Is he going to hold Martha ransom in the batcave? Talk about Batman being out of character...

No. He has all the info he needs on how to take him down with the Kryptonite. Why is Superman's alter ego important? You really want Batman to do what Lex did? Use Superman's loved ones as hostages and chess pieces? Batman is the world's greatest detective because he found the clues he needed and didn't waste time on frivolous information that wasn't needed.

It wasn't Clark Kent Batman had issues with. It was Superman's power. Once he figured out how to neutralize Superman's power, nothing else mattered.

Why wouldn't Batman want to know the background and motivations of the person he wants to kill for no particular reason?

 

[Poni_Boy]

Still waiting on an answer here, folks.

You're not gonna get it. Or you'll get one that makes no sense within the context of this story. Or you'll just be insulted. Again, nothing wrong with loving or liking any movie whatsoever, but trying to blame the audience for "not paying attention/getting it/being dumb" is really silly when defending a movie that crumbles under any kind of scrutiny.

 

[Wylie Times]

What does the desert firefight have to do with the kryptonite? And so what if Bruce is getting the kryptonite for the same reason, but he KNOWS that Lex is dirty because he went out of his way to hack his database.

Hacked his database, but somehow found NO information about Superman beyond how to kill him. He found all sorts of info about other meta humans that had logos drawn up for them, but he found none of the information that Lex gathered on Superman beyond the location of the Kryptonite.

 

[titansupes]

Actually both of those things make sense within the context of both films.

What was he supposed to do, Fight the government over Zod's body and the ship? Him taking Zod's body and the ship really would have made him seem like a threat.

I don't see how that could add to any threat perception, more than anything else he's done/hasn't done? Removing it is the only sensible thing to do, lest they do exactly what they did-- Use it to find a way to destroy him.

Also, he didn't have a problem destroying a military drone (which was tracking him and trying to figure his identity) and crashing it directly in front of a general and a captain, then telling them "You'll just have to trust me"... That surely adds to the threat level.

 

[matt47]

I can kinda see leaving Zod's body, but it makes zero sense for him to leave the ship. I mean, it's not like they could have stopped him from picking it up and putting it on the moon or something.

Y'know, seeing as how he took the ship in the first place to get it away from the government.

lol yeah he should have just said, "aye, the ships mine alright." and choofed off with it back to the arctic.

 

[Aquafinn90]

What does "copying Marvel" mean exactly? Does it mean taking their time making entertaining movies that fit the tone/style of their diverse characters which are accepted critically, financially successful, and create a bigger fanbase that helps grow a cinematic universe?

Because, yeah, WB should definitely copy Marvel then.

the Marvel movies are not what I want to see from DC at all. They are complete garbage to me, and they play it far to safe. Obviously I'd like the DCEU to be more accepted critically and financially, but not as the cost of making subpar movies, which is exactly what the Marvel universe represents to me.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

It is the writing's fault. If so many people are saying the same thing, it can't all be because we're fools with malfunctioning critical faculties.
Explain Doomsday for me then. Please, using just the information presented in the movie, explain what Lex did to make him, how he did it, and most importantly, why he did it. Use only the information in the movie.

That's easy. The Kryptonian scout ship taught him what the ship was for. We, as movie goers watching a SEQUEL, knew that the scout ship had a birthing matrix in it from the previous film and that the liquid was that. The scout ship then warned Lex to not put General Zod's body in the birthing matrix and used some language, the exact dialog I can't remember, to say that this is not allowed and it would lead to the creation of an abomination. It's all in the movie and it fits with past Doomsday stories.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Also, he didn't have a problem destroying a military drone (which was tracking him and trying to figure his identity) and crashing it directly in front of a general and a captain, then telling them "You'll just have to trust me"... That surely adds to the threat level.

That was my final MOS facepalm. Another moment that "looked awweeeeesome" but was just ridiculous. How does Superman costing American taxpayers millions in MORE damage make anyone think he's a good guy?

 

[Greens]

Why is Superman's alter ego important?

Because when you're obsessing over someone for two years straight and trying to find out if they're a threat, it might help to know who he is.

 

[Wylie Times]

I can kinda see leaving Zod's body, but it makes zero sense for him to leave the ship. I mean, it's not like they could have stopped him from picking it up and putting it on the moon or something.

Y'know, seeing as how he took the ship in the first place to get it away from the government.

They couldn't have stopped him, but that would have made people that much more distrustful of him. From the perspective of the worlds governments and most people it'd just be Superman hiding a dangerous weapon from everyone.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Tomato tomahto. I want good serious DC movies (TDK comes to mind), but some lighthearted Marvel-style movies wouldn't kill DC, and would probably help their perception a bit.

 

[javonstokess]

I have a suspicion people who didnt like this movie probably saw it more times then those who did like it

That kind of suspicion puts you on par with the Batman from BvS.

I keed, I keed

 

[Poni_Boy]

the Marvel movies are not what I want to see from DC at all. They are complete garbage to me, and they play it far to safe. Obviously I'd like the DCEU to be more accepted critically and financially, but not as the cost of making subpar movies, which is exactly what the Marvel universe represents to me.

Well not to be too blunt but if you get your way there won't be a DCU after 2017. Marvel movies are only considered "subpar" by a minute portion of the movie going audience (who most happen to be diehard DC fans from what I've noticed). You can't make $400 million movies for a handful of people. That's how you go bankrupt

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Why wouldn't Batman want to know the background and motivations of the person he wants to kill for no particular reason?

It's not relevant. Batman wants to destroy Superman because if Superman wanted he could destroy everyone. That's not a risk Batman is willing to take because Batman's past indicates that no one is good forever. Case closed.

 

[Flint Marko]

That's easy. The Kryptonian scout ship taught him what the ship was for. We, as movie goers watching a SEQUEL, knew that the scout ship had a birthing matrix in it from the previous film and that the liquid was that. The scout ship then warned Lex to not put General Zod's body in the birthing matrix and used some language, the exact dialog I can't remember, to say that this is not allowed and it would lead to the creation of an abomination. It's all in the movie and it fits with past Doomsday stories.

You've explained what I already knew. Why did Luthor mix his own blood with it? And you've also skirted the most important question, why did he do it to begin with? He had just set up Superman to fight Batman, knowing that Batman has the one thing that could kill Superman. Why would he already have a plan in motion to unleash a monster on the city? What does that accomplish?

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Because when you're obsessing over someone for two years straight and trying to find out if they're a threat, it might help to know who he is.

He's Superman.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ This. Of all the bad things in the movie, I consider it to be a good adaptation of Batman's paranoia and anger.

 

[Supernova]

That kind of suspicion puts you on par with the Batman from BvS.

I keed, I keed

Lol

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

You've explained what I already knew. Why did Luthor mix his own blood with it? And you've also skirted the most important question, why did he do it to begin with? He had just set up Superman to fight Batman, knowing that Batman has the one thing that could kill Superman. Why would he already have a plan in motion to unleash a monster on the city? What does that accomplish?

1. When did he release the monster?

2. Why was his hand in a bandage?

3. What happens when Superman brings him Batman's head?