BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Greens]

He's Superman.

No, he's not. Does his ID say "Superman"? Superman is a nick name because the general public doesn't know who he is.

 

[matt47]

I like to think that Bats doesn't think Supes would even have a secret identity.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

You've explained what I already knew. Why did Luthor mix his own blood with it? And you've also skirted the most important question, why did he do it to begin with? He had just set up Superman to fight Batman, knowing that Batman has the one thing that could kill Superman. Why would he already have a plan in motion to unleash a monster on the city? What does that accomplish?

I think Luthor was trying to gene splice his DNA with that of Zod.

2) Zodsday is Luthor's back up plan.

Though if Zodsday wasn't killed, he'd have a rampaging, city destroying monster. The only explanation to Luthor's logic-He's crazy.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Still waiting on an answer here, folks.

you got it! since I know nothing about DD from the comics whatsoever- And I caught on just fine.

He uses the Genesis Chamber from the Kryptonian ship to create an "abomination " from a dead corpse- He learned exactly how to do this form the ship educating him. The ship told him that the council decreed that never again would such an abomination be born from a dead body, but Lex proceeds anyways. He does this as a failsafe to kill Superman for if the Bat fails.

 

[titansupes]

That was my final MOS facepalm. Another moment that "looked awweeeeesome" but was just ridiculous. How does Superman costing American taxpayers millions in MORE damage make anyone think he's a good guy?

I don't mind crashing the drone honestly. What really ****s me, every time, is the shot of it on fire falling out of the sky. After watching an extremely numbing series of back-to-back-to-back action sequences with a ton of loud CG destruction... we get that action-y shot. It seems like a little thing, and I guess it is, but boy I hate it. Cut shot out and just use the next one-- the drone crashing on the ground from the POV of Swanwick's car.

Because when you're obsessing over someone for two years straight and trying to find out if they're a threat, it might help to know who he is.

Yyyyyup.

 

[Wylie Times]

That's easy. The Kryptonian scout ship taught him what the ship was for. We, as movie goers watching a SEQUEL, knew that the scout ship had a birthing matrix in it from the previous film and that the liquid was that. The scout ship then warned Lex to not put General Zod's body in the birthing matrix and used some language, the exact dialog I can't remember, to say that this is not allowed and it would lead to the creation of an abomination. It's all in the movie and it fits with past Doomsday stories.

This.......Is actually correct. Lex got information from the ship in order to know how to create Doomsday. So Lex knowing how to create Doomsday isn't a plot hole.

What doesn't make sense (but isn't a plot hole) is how the advanced alien technology was so easily fooled by Lex into giving him all that info. As advanced as Kryptonian technology was supposed to be it was somehow easily fooled by Lex cutting off Zod's fingerprints? I've seen better security measures in Mission Impossible films.

 

[Aquafinn90]

I think Luthor was trying to gene splice his DNA with that of Zod.

2) Zodsday is Luthor's back up plan.

Though if Zodsday wasn't killed, he'd have a rampaging, city destroying monster. The only explanation to Luthor's logic-He's crazy.

Correct. I also assumed that by using his blood he was under the impression he would be able to control it, wether he was correct in that assumption or not. AndI guess I was correct as Snyder confirmed that days after I saw the movie. Again, did not need any other information than the movie to come to that conclusion. But viewers want their hands held at all times. I don't like my movies like that

 

[matt47]

Can anyone remember the name of the thread about the one thing that would have to happen for you to hate this movie?

 

[Poni_Boy]

I like to think that Bats doesn't think Supes would even have a secret identity.

Maybe because Superman isn't being Superman all the time. Maybe because if he has a superhero identity he would assume that maybe Superman does too. It's not a guarantee, but it's plausible. Which is why he would research. Which he didn't do. Because reasons.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

1. When did he release the monster?

2. Why was his hand in a bandage?
(That's not a plot hole. He cut his hand open earlier)

3. What happens when Superman brings him Batman's head?

I'm assuming that Luthor would unleash Doomsday, now that Batman is dead.

The bigger question is "Why does Luthor hate Batman?"

I'm assuming it's because Batman's a time bomb due to his detective ability (which I don't think was established well enough)

 

[javonstokess]

It's not relevant. Batman wants to destroy Superman because if Superman wanted he could destroy everyone. That's not a risk Batman is willing to take because Batman's past indicates that no one is good forever. Case closed.

I guess he should kill the president too. Y'know, cause if the President wanted to he could nuke us all.

You guys can keep saying his "motivation" it doesn't make it any less ludicrous.

 

[matt47]

This.......Is actually correct. Lex got information from the ship in order to know how to create Doomsday. So Lex knowing how to create Doomsday isn't a plot hole.

What doesn't make sense (but isn't a plot hole) is how the advanced alien technology was so easily fooled by Lex into giving him all that info. As advanced as Kryptonian technology was supposed to be it was somehow easily fooled by Lex cutting off Zod's fingerprints? I've seen better security measures in Mission Impossible films.

It felt like they were copying S Returns with that. Weird.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Well not to be too blunt but if you get your way there won't be a DCU after 2017. Marvel movies are only considered "subpar" by a minute portion of the movie going audience (who most happen to be diehard DC fans from what I've noticed). You can't make $400 million movies for a handful of people. That's how you go bankrupt

Oh I am well aware, which is why I'm so baffled and upset.

 

[Cats]

That's great for you, but it's bad storytelling to expect your audience to A. pay for a movie, B. sit through a 2.5 hour movie, and C. go home and do research to understand said movie.

I don't know what films you've been watching but many good movies (especially based on war time scenarios, and real life stories) do require the additional research. Even at 2.5hrs, a movie cannot possibly cover enough history in many instances. A film's job is then to pique the moviegoer's interest after which he or she can read more about the actual historical facts in more detail. Examples of these are Schindler's List, Empire of the Sun, Flight 93, Saving Private Ryan, and many more. If you simply turn off the movie and not let it resonate, it would simply not bear as powerful a message as if you actually went and did the homework to find out more about that period in time and how people lived their lives through trial. Your understanding of it would be very shallow.

Of course BvS is mere fiction, but even as fiction, many of these characters have had close to 80 years of history behind them. They've been pop culture icons for decades, even more so than the Marvel characters. Going through the basics yet AGAIN would be wasting time on the stuff people have already heard/read. What BvS chose to do instead, was to wade into deeper waters, expose the world to the depths of what DC comics offer instead of just grazing the surface. Audiences who then have their curiosity piqued - perhaps someone like jkal90 who never read the comics before, would go on to explore, and have a much deeper understanding of the subject material.

The only criticism on this issue I will give is that perhaps too much information was crammed into 2.5hrs and could've spread out a bit more evenly, but even at 2 movies (4 +hrs viewing time), people who are interested need to do their own reading post movie. Like I've said, this is the age of the internet. If someone is too lazy to even click a button, he's probably not interested in the subject at all. Maybe he's not DC's target audience anyway.

 

[matt47]

You all want Lex's motivation?? !!

 

[Poni_Boy]

I don't mind crashing the drone honestly. What really ****s me, every time, is the shot of it on fire falling out of the sky. After watching an extremely numbing series of back-to-back-to-back action sequences with a ton of loud CG destruction... we get that action-y shot. It seems like a little thing, and I guess it is, but boy I hate it. Cut shot out and just use the next one-- the drone crashing on the ground from the POV of Swanwick's car.

I'm gonna start calling unnecessary action set pieces Snydervision. What Superman should have done to keep the same tone/context of the story is simply grab the drone, and carry it down. It manages the same thing but without the destructive visuals. Why should Superman do things the common sense way when he could do it the super awesome physically violent way? Snydervision.

 

[Aquafinn90]

I guess he should kill the president too. Y'know, cause if the President wanted to he could nuke us all.

You guys can keep saying his "motivation" it doesn't make it any less ludicrous.

umm the President doesn't have the power to nuke us all.

 

[Wylie Times]

Superman's alter ego is totally not important....That's why Lois Lane, The U.S. Government, and Lex Luthor also made no attempts to figure out who he was.

That's like saying a cop wouldn't try to find out where a dangerous suspect he was after lived, because who he is doesn't matter as long as he can be shot and killed.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I don't know what films you've been watching but many good movies (especially based on war time scenarios, and real life stories) do require the additional research.

Name FIVE that are A. critically acclaimed, B. successful at the box office, and C. carry a general positive reception

 

[Greens]

I don't know what films you've been watching but many good movies (especially based on war time scenarios, and real life stories) do require the additional research. Even at 2.5hrs, a movie cannot possibly cover enough history in many instances. A film's job is then to pique the moviegoer's interest after which he or she can read more about the actual historical facts in more detail.

Actually, a film's job is to tell a cohesive story, not to be a commercial for other things.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ What if I told you a film's job was BOTH?

To tell a good story, and represent the source material.

BvS had story problems, and even bigger adaptational problems.

 

[Greens]

^ What if I told you a film's job was BOTH?

To tell a good story, and represent the source material.

BvS had story problems, and even bigger adaptational problems.

I think there's a distinction, though. A film can set out to be a great adaptation and be a great adaptation, that's fine. The Harry Potter series wasn't a commercial for the books, it was a cohesive storyline that readers and non-readers could enjoy.

 

[souperman]

Here are a few replies to the Qs in the last few posts.

Maybe he left the ship(s) because the Gov. asked him to so they could study them and for good will trust?

OR maybe because Supes knows they can't get in or use the tech because of the access codes etc. (Lex needed Zods fingerprints to get in.)

Lex knows about the unspeakable abomination (Doomsday) as well as other information about the cosmos because the ship "taught him" about the 100,000 worlds. ( could have shown more,- I agree) This is where he gets the idea from.

Didn't Bats get info from the Mercs and KGB about lex and the Kryptonite?

Didn't Bats and Alfred show that they had files on Superman and were watching him.

They show Alfred "taking care of" Bruce...calling him Master Wayne...Fixing things...can't we assume he either works for Bruce or is helping him?

Ok so BvS isn't perfect, but it's not the trash you guys keep pushing either. Get some perspective.

Fury Road had ZERO story. What did the characters want? I don't remember 1 name from the film except Max and that's because it's a remake from the 80S! Wheres the back story? All visuals , and not even NEW visuals... just bigger, louder and more Plosions !... and don't forget the nonsensical grunge band playing a concert on the back of a truck while racing through the desert.

Makes perfect sense...

 

[FunkMiller]

you got it! since I know nothing about DD from the comics whatsoever- And I caught on just fine.

He uses the Genesis Chamber from the Kryptonian ship to create an "abomination " from a dead corpse- He learned exactly how to do this form the ship educating him. The ship told him that the council decreed that never again would such an abomination be born from a dead body, but Lex proceeds anyways. He does this as a failsafe to kill Superman for if the Bat fails.

...which begs the question why bother sending him off to fight batman in the first place? Why not just unleash Doomsday on him - given that a 10 foot tall Kryptonian killing machine is more likely to do away with Superman than a rich psychopath in a Bat suit?

So there you go, there's my question to everyone:

Why send Superman to fight Batman, if you have Doomsday?

 

[Predator jp]

I think there's a distinction, though. A film can set out to be a great adaptation and be a great adaptation, that's fine. The Harry Potter series wasn't a commercial for the books, it was a cohesive storyline that readers and non-readers could enjoy.

WB did a great job with Harry Potter series. i don't know why they can't do that with DC property.